Unusual prayer at mass

[nickybr38]

I notice that now your using the standard " homosexual" term. Be that as it may.

During the prayer of the faithful the “group” should not be mentioned as if giving it some status of approval or recognition for being actively homosexual.

Simple enough.

To insist on distinguishing this “group” as the [Gay & Homosexual] whatevers, is wrong.

What’s next- use them as an example to hold up to other groups in the congregation? This congregation is openning up a can of worms that will be very difficult to close in the future if someone doesn’t get this monitoring under control.

I would argue only if we are praying for those with same-sex attraction. I can understand singling those with such leanings out in that case. As such:

We pray for those with same-sex attraction that they may be strengthened.

 

[mangy_dog]

I would argue only if we are praying for those with same-sex attraction. I can understand singling those with such leanings out in that case. As such:

We pray for those with same-sex attraction that they may be strengthened.

…that they may be strengthened…?..in the light and truth of Jesus Christ.

Ambiguity will leave open cracks everytime.

 

[nickybr38]

…that they may be strengthened…?..in the light and truth of Jesus Christ.

Ambiguity will leave open cracks everytime.

Good point.

Phew! Writing prayers for the Prayers of the Faithful is hard work!

 

[Delaine75]

Ok, just to be clear. You think that there are people whom we should exclude when we offer up the Prayer Of The Faithful in Mass?

Perhaps I am misreading this from the USCCB?

In the Universal Prayer or Prayer of the Faithful, the people respond in some sense to the Word of God which they have received in faith and, exercising the office of their baptismal Priesthood, offer prayers to God for the salvation of all.

It goes on to recommend …

The series of intentions is usually to be:

a) for the needs of the Church;

b) for public authorities and the salvation of the whole world;

c) for those burdened by any kind of difficulty;

d) for the local community.

Nevertheless, in any particular celebration, such as a Confirmation, a Marriage, or at a Funeral, the series of intentions may be concerned more closely with the particular occasion.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/resources-for-the-eucharist/prayers-of-the-faithful/

You feel that there are certain occasions where we shouldn’t pray for specific intentions? To put a fine point on it, you feel that we should never have occasion to pray for homosexuals?

Of course they should be prayed for; however, I personally don’t feel as though one specific group needed to be singled out that way. I don’t think that by NOT singling them out, it means that they don’t deserve prayers. As someone above said, it just seemed a bit unnecessary.

 

[Rejoice_Always]

They weren’t praying FOR them but thanking God FOR them. It’s a different thing entirely.

Ok.

I notice that now your using the standard " homosexual" term. Be that as it may.

During the prayer of the faithful the “group” should not be mentioned as if giving it some status of approval or recognition for being actively homosexual.

Simple enough.

To insist on distinguishing this “group” as the [Gay & Homosexual] whatevers, is wrong.

Ok.

What I’ve learned on CAF today!

There are certain sinners who are not sinners like us. We should never mention those certain sinners, or pray for them, in the Prayer Of The Faithful during Mass.

 

[Daizies]

I visited a large catholic church a couple of weeks ago. When the prayers of the faithful were offered, the reader said something like, “We thank You for our gay and lesbians members that serve so faithfully in our church.” I was startled to say the least, Am I right to assume that this was wrong to do? (By the way, I would have found it odd if the reader had used the term “heterosexual” in the prayer.)

This isn’t your usual parish I assume since you said you were visiting. Maybe there had been a series of ongoing problems prior to this, and the prayer was intended as a reminder to all to be charitable to those who struggle with this. If this was a regular occurrence then there may be cause for concern, but we don’t know that it is. My opinion is to assume good intentions until it is proved otherwise, and not worry about it.

 

[nickybr38]

Ok.

Ok.

What I’ve learned on CAF today!

There are certain sinners who are not sinners like us. We should never mention those certain sinners, or pray for them, in the Prayer Of The Faithful during Mass.

That’s absolutely not what was said.

Just that HOW we mention certain SINS should be carefully considered.

The point is that they ARE SINNERS JUST LIKE US and shouldn’t be singled out as somehow more special sinners then the rest of us. Do you get what I mean?

 

[Rejoice_Always]

That’s absolutely not what was said.

Just that HOW we mention certain SINS should be carefully considered.

The point is that they ARE SINNERS JUST LIKE US and shouldn’t be singled out as somehow more special sinners then the rest of us. Do you get what I mean?

Yes, I do. But the Prayers Of The Faithful often specifically mention sinners (a wide range of sinners are specifically mentioned at every Mass I’ve ever attended) This thread claims that there are certain, specific sinners that should never be mentioned during Mass.

 

[nickybr38]

Yes, I do. But the Prayers Of The Faithful often specifically mention sinners (a wide range of sinners are specifically mentioned at every Mass I’ve ever attended) This thread claims that there are certain, specific sinners that should never be mentioned during Mass.

No, this thread claims that how we mention specific sinners should be carefully considered.

At Mass ‘those who suffer with same-sex attraction’ is probably the more appropriate term then ‘gay and lesbian’.

That’s all. And how it’s couched IN the prayer is very important so as not to cause confusion.

 

[Rainaldo]

So, praying for homosexuals during the Prayer Of The Faithful is an abuse and is Satanic?

Yes … if by “praying for homosexuals” you mean engaging in a subtle awareness-raising campaign to desensitize the faithful against sodomy, by co-opting the general intercessions so as to slowly get the faithful used to the idea that homosexuality is just another unobjectionable part of the landscape. And once society is desensitized, then the public shaming begins…

 

[Rejoice_Always]

No, this thread claims that how we mention specific sinners should be carefully considered.

At Mass ‘those who suffer with same-sex attraction’ is probably the more appropriate term then ‘gay and lesbian’.

That’s all. And how it’s couched IN the prayer is very important so as not to cause confusion.

So as long as we find an appropriate term for certain sinners, we can pray for them at Mass?

 

[nickybr38]

So as long as we find an appropriate term for certain sinners, we can pray for them at Mass?

Not sure if you’re aware of it but there is kind of a public campaign to normalize certain sins.

If you were sitting in the pew and you had NO IDEA what the Catholic Church teaches and you heard from the pulpit;

We thank you for our gay and lesbian members and all the work they do…

Would you think to yourself; Ah… they accept gays and lesbians here! Great! And then maybe you’d even turn to your lesbian partner and say; This is the church we should go to we can be ourselves here!

 

[Rainaldo]

They weren’t praying FOR them but thanking God FOR them. It’s a different thing entirely.

Even if they weren’t identified by their mental illness, it would still be a liturgical abuse to use the general intercessions as a thank-you card.

 

[Rejoice_Always]

Not sure if you’re aware of it but there is kind of a public campaign to normalize certain sins.

If you were sitting in the pew and you had NO IDEA what the Catholic Church teaches and you heard from the pulpit;

We thank you for our gay and lesbian members and all the work they do…

Would you think to yourself; Ah… they accept gays and lesbians here! Great! And then maybe you’d even turn to your lesbian partner and say; This is the church we should go to we can be ourselves here!

Yes, I am aware of this. I wasn’t aware that we had to be careful about whom we pray for and whom we don’t pray for.

 

[marlap2]

That’s absolutely not what was said.

Just that HOW we mention certain SINS should be carefully considered.

The point is that they ARE SINNERS JUST LIKE US and shouldn’t be singled out as somehow more special sinners then the rest of us. Do you get what I mean?

I think this particular prayer is wrong on a few levels.

1. We are making assumptions about our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in this particular church. What if, for example, there is a large COURAGE group here, and this is what the speaker is inferring to: ie: that these people are living the life that Christ has called them to and they deserve praise. In this case, should there not be prayer for the NA, (Narcotics Anonymous), (AA, Alcoholics Anonymous) etc. as well. Then the prayers of the faithful become diluted in praising people, not God. And all prayers of the faithful specifically are supposed to be intercessory, not praise. I believe that this (or any particular group of people struggling with temptation) would not want to be singled out for any act of piety, etc.
2. If in fact there is a large contingent of gay and lesbian who are actively in s/s relationships, then they are not in line with church teaching, and to ask us to praise and thank God for their actions is heresy.

Just my two cents.

 

[Gertabelle]

Yes, I do. But the Prayers Of The Faithful often specifically mention sinners (a wide range of sinners are specifically mentioned at every Mass I’ve ever attended) This thread claims that there are certain, specific sinners that should never be mentioned during Mass.

It is clear that’s what you want to believe is being said – you are completely committed to reading everyone’s words as if that’s what they’re saying. So long as that’s your commitment, there’s really no way you can “get” what people are actually saying.

As a former “lesbian” I am committed to prayer and sacrifice for my brothers and sisters with same-sex attraction (SSA). I was so immersed in that world for such a long time that my heart just aches for those still carrying this cross.

I would be completely fine with prayers being specifically offered for them at any mass. But you are so committed to thinking all of us are wrong, that you’re completely avoiding the two concerns put forth by previous posts:

1. The prayer was not for strength, healing, repentance… but thanking them for the work they do in the parish.
2. No one here seems to have ever heard other groups of sinners singled out in the prayers of the faithful… such as:

• For all thieves…
• For all gossip mongers…
• For all those pretending to be married through an illicit and therefore invalid “marriage”…
• For all those who lie…

Not sure what else to say, dear, so I’m done for now.

Gertie

 

[nickybr38]

Yes, I am aware of this. I wasn’t aware that we had to be careful about whom we pray for and whom we don’t pray for.

And again it’s not WHO but HOW.

 

[Rejoice_Always]

Yes … if by “praying for homosexuals” you mean engaging in a subtle awareness-raising campaign to desensitize the faithful against sodomy, by co-opting the general intercessions so as to slowly get the faithful used to the idea that homosexuality is just another unobjectionable part of the landscape. And once society is desensitized, then the public shaming begins…

I sense that you have prayed often about this issue?

 

[nickybr38]

I think this particular prayer is wrong on a few levels.

1. We are making assumptions about our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in this particular church. What if, for example, there is a large COURAGE group here, and this is what the speaker is inferring to: ie: that these people are living the life that Christ has called them to and they deserve praise. In this case, should there not be prayer for the NA, (Narcotics Anonymous), (AA, Alcoholics Anonymous) etc. as well. Then the prayers of the faithful become diluted in praising people, not God. And all prayers of the faithful specifically are supposed to be intercessory, not praise. I believe that this (or any particular group of people struggling with temptation) would not want to be singled out for any act of piety, etc.
2. If in fact there is a large contingent of gay and lesbian who are actively in s/s relationships, then they are not in line with church teaching, and to ask us to praise and thank God for their actions is heresy.

Just my two cents.

You make some really great points. That’s another aspect of it that’s concerning.

 

[Rejoice_Always]

It is clear that’s what you want to believe is being said – you are completely committed to reading everyone’s words as if that’s what their saying. So long as that’s your commitment, there’s really no way you can “get” what people are actually saying.

I don’t think you get what I’m saying at all.

As a former “lesbian” I am committed to prayer and sacrifice for my brothers and sisters with same-sex attraction (SSA). I was so immersed in that world for such a long time that my heart just aches for those still carrying this cross.

I would be completely fine with prayers being specifically offered for them at any mass. But you are so committed to thinking all of us are wrong, that you’re completely avoiding the two concerns put forth by previous posts:

1. The prayer was not for strength, healing, repentance… but thanking them for the work they do in the parish.
2. No one here seems to have ever heard other groups of sinners singled out in the prayers of the faithful… such as:

• For all thieves…
• For all gossip mongers…
• For all those pretending to be married through an illicit and therefore invalid “marriage”…
• For all those who lie…

Not sure what else to say, dear, so I’m done for now.

Gertie

Prayers for you, if acceptable.