Unwanted Divorce

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CatholicSooner

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Please accept my apologies if this has been discussed recently.

Is there any gray area in regards to divorce if only one party wants the divorce in regards to full communion with the church?

Say a couple was married in a Catholic church and had an awesome marriage and it was a real marriage in the church’s/God’s eyes (ie impossible for annullment). What if the husband cheats, beats,etc on the wife and gets a divorce.

Is the woman just out of luck in this situation to ever remarry? Doesn’t that seem harsh?
 
Questions like this are some of the reasons a loosening of restrictions were discussed at the recent synod. As it stands today if a person has remarried without a declaration of nullity then they are not allowed to receive. Why the divorce happened is only relevant only insofar as it may point to a defect at the time of the marriage. If a declaration of nullity can’t be made, and if a person in this situation wants to receive, the only options are for the current couple to separate or live in celibacy.
 
Seraphim73 said:
Questions like this are some of the reasons a loosening of restrictions were discussed at the recent synod. As it stands today if a person has remarried without a declaration of nullity then they are not allowed to receive. Why the divorce happened is only relevant only insofar as it may point to a defect at the time of the marriage. If a declaration of nullity can’t be made, and if a person in this situation wants to receive, the only options are for the current couple to separate or live in celibacy.
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How does that correspond with this teaching from the Catechism?
2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.
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Does that mean that even the “innocent victim” of the divorce is not free to remarry, despite the fact that the Catechism acknowledges that they have done nothing wrong?
 
casslean said:
How does that correspond with this teaching from the Catechism?

Does that mean that even the “innocent victim” of the divorce is not free to remarry, despite the fact that the Catechism acknowledges that they have done nothing wrong?
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Being free to be married has nothing to do with whether or not a person is a victim and everything to do with whether or not the marriage that person is in is valid. It is what it is. A person cannot be married to more than one live person and that is that.

Marriage needs to be defended, and the reality that a true, valid, consummated marriage cannot be broken here on Earth is good! All the graces and all the gifts related to marriage are there for the couple. If one person in a marriage misbehaves, that does not affect that the marriage cannot be dissolved.
 
CatholicSooner said:
Please accept my apologies if this has been discussed recently.

Is there any gray area in regards to divorce if only one party wants the divorce in regards to full communion with the church?

Say a couple was married in a Catholic church and had an awesome marriage and it was a real marriage in the church’s/God’s eyes (ie impossible for annullment). What if the husband cheats, beats,etc on the wife and gets a divorce.

Is the woman just out of luck in this situation to ever remarry? Doesn’t that seem harsh?
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Sometimes, when people sin, it hurts others. And sometimes that hurt cannot be made to disappear. The Church offers forgiveness but not a magic wand to make things all better. yes, that can appear harsh, but it is not God or the Church that is the harsh party here, but the one inflicting the sin and pain.
 
If people are in a good marriage to begin with, it’s not very likely that one spouse will suddenly begin to cheat. Usually there was some defect in intention from the start in such cases.

Having said that, even if one spouse did nothing wrong, s/he took vows before God to be faithful “for better or for worse.” Either such vows mean something or they don’t.

Marriages are supposed to last the life time of the spouses. No one is free to bail on a marriage when things go badly. Certainly an abused spouse need not stay to allow him/herself or their children to be abused. Still, if either spouse wants to be free to marry another, then they need to apply for an annulment.

As I stated above, it seems to me that most poeple don’t suddenly go off the rails to act out of character. There’s usually some underlying, preexisting reluctance to give full consent to the married state in spouses that cheat. Abuse has other causes that also may indicate a preexisting cause that if it’d been known about before marriage would have been good reason not to enter into the marriage.
 
casslean said:
How does that correspond with this teaching from the Catechism?

Does that mean that even the “innocent victim” of the divorce is not free to remarry, despite the fact that the Catechism acknowledges that they have done nothing wrong?
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It’s not about having done nothing wrong. It’s about upholding the vow you took before God. It is the difference between seeing a marriage as a sacramental union vice seeing it as simply an earthly contract. The vow was for better or worse, unfortunately this is a situation on the ‘for worse’ side.
 
styrgwillidar said:
It’s not about having done nothing wrong. It’s about upholding the vow you took before God. It is the difference between seeing a marriage as a sacramental union vice seeing it as simply an earthly contract. The vow was for better or worse, unfortunately this is a situation on the ‘for worse’ side.
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Thank you, that makes it much clearer for me. I was wondering how to interpret the innocence of the spouse with their obligations to a marriage that someone else had “destroyed” (to use the words of the Catechism).

Truly an unfortunate situation, if it does occur.
 
CatholicSooner said:
Say a couple was married in a Catholic church and had an awesome marriage and it was a real marriage in the church’s/God’s eyes (ie impossible for annullment). What if the husband cheats, beats,etc on the wife and gets a divorce.
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Contradictory, isn’t it? How does an “awesome”, valid Christian marriage involve cheating, beating, abandonment?
 
casslean said:
How does that correspond with this teaching from the Catechism?

Does that mean that even the “innocent victim” of the divorce is not free to remarry, despite the fact that the Catechism acknowledges that they have done nothing wrong?
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Two wrongs don’t make a right. I know it’s trite but just because one is the innocent spouse doesn’t translate into license to do other things that would be considered wrong such as marrying civilly without the blessing of the Church.
 
Della said:
If people are in a good marriage to begin with, it’s not very likely that one spouse will suddenly begin to cheat. Usually there was some defect in intention from the start in such cases.

Having said that, even if one spouse did nothing wrong, s/he took vows before God to be faithful “for better or for worse.” Either such vows mean something or they don’t.

Marriages are supposed to last the life time of the spouses. No one is free to bail on a marriage when things go badly. Certainly an abused spouse need not stay to allow him/herself or their children to be abused. Still, if either spouse wants to be free to marry another, then they need to apply for an annulment.

As I stated above, it seems to me that most poeple don’t suddenly go off the rails to act out of character. There’s usually some underlying, preexisting reluctance to give full consent to the married state in spouses that cheat. Abuse has other causes that also may indicate a preexisting cause that if it’d been known about before marriage would have been good reason not to enter into the marriage.
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I think there are a lot of cases that the marriage was valid and should never be annulled but one of the spouses changes and is unfaithful. I don’t buy that just b/c a marriage becomes bad, that doesn’t mean that there is a defect in intention.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
Contradictory, isn’t it? How does an “awesome”, valid Christian marriage involve cheating, beating, abandonment?
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Maybe I wasn’t clear. Say for 20 years the marriage was awesome. Then the husband starts to cheat/beat his wife (whether it stems from mental issues, drug abuse,satan,etc doesn’t matter). For this hypothetical, it was an awesome holy marriage for 20 years. Then it changed.

I understand the for better for worse vows. But I also know that people are weak and God is merciful. It a perfect, holy world, after a civil divorce, the couples would have the strength and faith to live out the rest of their life chaste. But in the real world that isn’t going to happen but for a faithful few.

In a hypothetical, I would pray I would had the strength to choose God and chastity but i know there is a strong chance that my sinful ways would take hold and I would be tempted to remarry. Especially if this happens early in life. It is sad to think that people have to choose between humanly love and companionship and receiving Eucharist.

Are we to believe that God does not posses the power to void a covenant b/t man and wife?
 
OP, say you had an awesome 20 yr. marriage and then you got in a bad car accident. Your wife is disabled and has brain injury. She no longer knows who you are. Should you divorce?

Or what if you were married 1 yr. and the accident occurred. Should you divorce because your whole life is ahead of you and she is a vegetable?

What is the point of vows if you’re not going to stick together in sickness and health?

I understand there might be a case where a spouse becomes mentally disabled and violent, or going insane and taking the family into financial ruin, divorce is necessary in cases like these. But it still doesn’t mean you can remarry automatically.

My neighbor’s mom became ill with dementia in her 70’s. She had to be put in assisted living. She didn’t know who any of her family members were anymore. Her dad was fine and he decided to get a girlfriend because his wife was ‘gone’ in a way. The family accepted the girlfriend and mom eventually died. This stuff happens. It still isn’t right.

Life is hard.
 
CatholicSooner said:
Are we to believe that God does not posses the power to void a covenant b/t man and wife?
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I have never liked this argument. Because it makes no sense. Of course God can do what he wishes. And he wishes to choose not to do something.

Asking the question like that is a trick that some people use to make it look like those who believe God’s Church somehow doubt the power of the almighty. Do you not think God has the power to create a homosexual marriage? It is like saying that if you do not accept a heterodox theology you are doubting God. It is a bad logical position and in some cases down right nonsensical.

Honestly it kind of reminds me of when the Devil tempted Jesus to throw Himself off a ledge. Making sound like “well if your God is so powerful then make him do this to prove it.”
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I have never liked this argument. Because it makes no sense. Of course God can do what he wishes. And he wishes to choose not to do something.

Asking the question like that is a trick that some people use to make it look like those who believe God’s Church somehow doubt the power of the almighty. Do you not think God has the power to create a homosexual marriage? It is like saying that if you do not accept a heterodox theology you are doubting God. It is a bad logical position and in some cases down right nonsensical.

Honestly it kind of reminds me of when the Devil tempted Jesus to throw Himself off a ledge. Making sound like “well if your God is so powerful then make him do this to prove it.”
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I understand where you are coming from and I am just thinking out loud, not trying to trick people.

But Jesus gave the Church special authority over the church and I would think that, whether it was in God’s original plan or not, if the church decided that under certain circumstances, man can remarry and still be in good standing, that it would be so in Heaven
 
CatholicSooner said:
I understand where you are coming from and I am just thinking out loud, not trying to trick people.

But Jesus gave the Church special authority over the church and I would think that, whether it was in God’s original plan or not, if the church decided that under certain circumstances, man can remarry and still be in good standing, that it would be so in Heaven
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But the Church hasn’t. And wont. And this is not a new issue for the Church either. Divorce has been at the scene of some of the biggest breaks from the Church.

Which is kind of interesting when you think about it. An entire kingdom “divorced” the Church because of this.

I often am amused by the type of gamble people will make by thinking that the Church WILL change on an issue.

Basically it comes down to obedience. Obedience to a vow and obedience to a Church. Even when our infantile sense of Justice and Mercy do not agree with God’s.

Here is what the Church cannot do. The Church cannot take a sin, an evil offense against God, or a sacrilege and permit it for anything. Saints have died to protect Jesus in the Eucharist. Saints have died never having been able to live their vocations of marriage. And mankind has a penchant for choosing a libido over God. And in this day and age what is being sold as an act of “Mercy” by the Church may very well be the case of the medicine being worse than the disease. Marriage and the family have suffered. We can not even define marriage as between one man and one woman. Multiple spouses (divorced and remarriage) , and homosexual “marriage” are up for debate socially. We cannot even define a marriage or a family anymore. At this point, further weakening our understanding of marriage would be the worst thing the Church could do, it would be an act of Harm, not mercy.
 
CatholicSooner said:
In a hypothetical, I would pray I would had the strength to choose God and chastity but i know there is a strong chance that my sinful ways would take hold and I would be tempted to remarry. Especially if this happens early in life. It is sad to think that people have to choose between humanly love and companionship and receiving Eucharist.
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It is sad, and hopefully, we will find the strength and love to choose God. Jesus warned us that we might have to choose between Him and our family, friends, loved ones.

Matthew 10:34-39
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law–a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "

It’s a hard truth, but it’s truth, nonetheless.

Remember, too, that marriage is not absolutely necessary for our happiness, even on earth (in fact, some of the most joyful people I’ve ever met have been nuns and monks!). For some reason, a lot of people forget that!
 
CatholicSooner said:
I understand where you are coming from and I am just thinking out loud, not trying to trick people.

Jesus gave the Church special authority over the church and I would think that, whether it was in God’s original plan or not, if the church decided that under certain circumstances, man can remarry and still be in good standing, that it would be so in Heaven
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We must remember, however, that the authority of the Church is not an arbitrary power. The Church is bound by the dictates of the Holy Spirit, the same Holy Spirit that dictated that the Lord’s words be recorded in the Gospel, where he pronounced the willingness of Moses to allow divorce was not due to God’s will, but due to the hardheartedness of the Jews.

The Church allows the innocent spouse who is the victim of infidelity or threatened with danger to self or children to separate with the bond remaining–that is, to be excused from what would otherwise be the obligations of marriage. The Church does not facilitate the pretense of separation in what God has decreed cannot be separated, lest the Church facilitate and give her blessing to adultery, as Our Lord said that Moses did.
 
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