Unwanted frozen embryos

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Doc_Keele

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I read something that intrigued me in Dignitas Personae. It states that “‘frozen embryos…remain the subjects of essential rights and should therefore be protected by law as human persons’”. However it qualifies this by stating "there seems to be no morally licit solution regarding the human destiny of the thousands and thousands of 'frozen embryos.
It also states that it is not ethically acceptable to use such embryos as a treatment for infertility.
So what does the Church envisage is done with frozen embryos? Since it seems to have ruled out every single option?
 
Doc_Keele said:
I read something that intrigued me in Dignitas Personae. It states that “‘frozen embryos…remain the subjects of essential rights and should therefore be protected by law as human persons’”. However it qualifies this by stating "there seems to be no morally licit solution regarding the human destiny of the thousands and thousands of 'frozen embryos.
It also states that it is not ethically acceptable to use such embryos as a treatment for infertility.
So what does the Church envisage is done with frozen embryos? Since it seems to have ruled out every single option?
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That is an excellent question. I would be interested in the answer.
 
I think it’s a very important question. The Vatican doesn’t say how these frozen embryos should be treat with the respect that human life deserves, in fact it states that it’s impossible to treat them with the respect human life deserves apparently.
 
Perhaps we simply don’t yet have an ethical alternative option for the embryos? Perhaps we just need to let them stay frozen until there is an ethical option for them? I personally wish that there would be an artificial womb or something invented so that these embryos could be implanted in it and then grown to their newborn state. Of course, someone would have to adopt the children but it seems to me like it’d be an ethical alternative to what they currently go through. I could be wrong though. Regardless, something needs to be done about these poor souls and it needs to be done quickly. Also, this is just further proof that invitro fertilization is an immoral way to have a child.
 
We will not hear a definent answer on this for sometime. The reason why the Church is reluctent is their fear of this becomeing a valid industry, but there is no other real clear answer on the actual act in of itself as being immoral.
 
Jermosh said:
We will not hear a definent answer on this for sometime. The reason why the Church is reluctent is their fear of this becomeing a valid industry, but there is no other real clear answer on the actual act in of itself as being immoral.
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What do you mean? Surely you do not mean that invitro fertilization is moral? Invitro fertilization is immoral by the very fact that it is not the natural way to conceive.
 
Holly3278 said:
Perhaps we simply don’t yet have an ethical alternative option for the embryos? Perhaps we just need to let them stay frozen until there is an ethical option for them? I personally wish that there would be an artificial womb or something invented so that these embryos could be implanted in it and then grown to their newborn state. Of course, someone would have to adopt the children but it seems to me like it’d be an ethical alternative to what they currently go through. I could be wrong though. Regardless, something needs to be done about these poor souls and it needs to be done quickly. Also, this is just further proof that invitro fertilization is an immoral way to have a child.
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I think you have exactly stated the Church’s position at present - that there is no known morally acceptable option for these children. In other words, we have created a situation or condition whereby any action we take in regards to it will be immoral. It is a metaphor for evil and an example of the way in which evil destroys freedom.
 
Doc_Keele said:
This is abvject failure on the part of the Church surely?
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Your obvious issues with the Church are standing in the way of your understanding the Church’s teaching and position. This is no “abject failure” on the part of the Church. The failure is of the secular mind that advocates for convenience at the expense of life. The Church has, in some cases standing alone, boldly proclaimed as immoral the procedures and mentality that results in the production of conditions such as embryos, children, frozen in time with no certain moral way to resolve their lives. The moral solution that remains is the maintenance of the embryos in the state they exist.
 
Biggie said:
Your obvious issues with the Church are standing in the way of your understanding the Church’s teaching and position. This is no “abject failure” on the part of the Church. The failure is of the secular mind that advocates for convenience at the expense of life. The Church has, in some cases standing alone, boldly proclaimed as immoral the procedures and mentality that results in the production of conditions such as embryos, children, frozen in time with no certain moral way to resolve their lives. The moral solution that remains is the maintenance of the embryos in the state they exist.
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LOL I love this reply:)
If someone points out a problem, just deny it exists:thumbsup:

The mind boggles as to how keeping the embryos frozen indefinitely is respecting them as human life?
 
Someone mentioned on this forum a few weeks ago (I don’t remember who) that adopting these embryos for embryo transplant is permissable. BUT I HAVE NO IDEA so don’t take my word for it, or bother flaming me for it.

Does anyone else know if adoption of these embryos is allowed by the Church? I would think that it would be a better alternative than disposing of them?
 
Doc_Keele said:
LOL I love this reply:)
If someone points out a problem, just deny it exists:thumbsup:

The mind boggles as to how keeping the embryos frozen indefinitely is respecting them as human life?
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Who could know what you’re talking about? Here is the position of the Church from Dignitas Personae. They deserve a thoughtful read before a flippant dismissal. Who is taking the matter more seriously? You or the Church?
  1. With regard to the large number of frozen embryos already in existence the question becomes: what to do with them? Some of those who pose this question do not grasp its ethical nature, motivated as they are by laws in some countries that require cryopreservation centers to empty their storage tanks periodically. Others, however, are aware that a grave injustice has been perpetrated and wonder how best to respond to the duty of resolving it.
    Proposals to use these embryos for research or for the treatment of disease are obviously
    unacceptable because they treat the embryos as mere “biological material” and result in their destruction. The proposal to thaw such embryos without reactivating them and use them for research, as if they were normal cadavers, is also unacceptable.
    The proposal that these embryos could be put at the disposal of infertile couples as a
    treatment for infertility is not ethically acceptable for the same reasons which make artificial heterologous procreation illicit as well as any form of surrogate motherhood;38 this practice would also lead to other problems of a medical, psychological and legal nature.
    It has also been proposed, solely in order to allow human beings to be born who are
    otherwise condemned to destruction, that there could be a form of “prenatal adoption”. This
    proposal, praiseworthy with regard to the intention of respecting and defending human life,
    presents however various problems not dissimilar to those mentioned above.
    All things considered, it needs to be recognized that the thousands of abandoned
    embryos represent a situation of injustice which in fact cannot be resolved. Therefore John
    Paul II made an “appeal to the conscience of the world’s scientific authorities and in particular to doctors, that the production of human embryos be halted, taking into account that there seems to be no morally licit solution regarding the human destiny of the thousands and thousands of ‘frozen’ embryos which are and remain the subjects of essential rights and should therefore be protected by law as human persons”.
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usccb.org/comm/Dignitaspersonae/Dignitas_Personae.pdf
 
Rence said:
Someone mentioned on this forum a few weeks ago (I don’t remember who) that adopting these embryos for embryo transplant is permissable. BUT I HAVE NO IDEA so don’t take my word for it, or bother flaming me for it.

Does anyone else know if adoption of these embryos is allowed by the Church? I would think that it would be a better alternative than disposing of them?
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Rence, I am afraid that if the thought is to adopt the embryos for implantation, the Church finds this immoral as explained in the excerpt from Dignitas Personae I clipped above.I would assume we could underwrite the continued existence of the embryos in their current state as a form of adoption.
 
Thank you for the excerpt Biggie. Now I know the answer to that question 🙂
 
Rence said:
Thank you for the excerpt Biggie. Now I know the answer to that question 🙂
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Being the father of a couple unable to bear children, we explored this possibility. That’s why I knew. My daughter chose fostering and adoption, and now has four children. It is a good option.
 
Biggie said:
Being the father of a couple unable to bear children, we explored this possibility. That’s why I knew. My daughter chose fostering and adoption, and now has four children. It is a good option.
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Yeah but it’s a shame to waste those frozen embryos. I mean, on the one hand I understand that allowing transplantation of stored frozen embryos is going to just encourage rather than deter IVF, but on the other hand, those frozen embryos are already there just waiting to be disposed of. I don’t see IVF dying out any time soon, so the stored frozen embryos are just going to pile up or be thrown out.

I’m glad your kids were able to adopt though, that’s wonderful! 🙂
 
Holly3278 said:
What do you mean? Surely you do not mean that invitro fertilization is moral? Invitro fertilization is immoral by the very fact that it is not the natural way to conceive.
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But the caveat with this is that the human embryo is already conceived, and the adopted parents are not bypassing the natural act since they are for all intents and reasons adopting the child in a non-traditional manner. The issue is the Church is afraid of the implication’s of this and that it may create a new industry which is immoral.
 
Biggies, post 14 seems to serve no purpose. Since I naturally read Dignitas Personae before posting, hence the quotations from it, I’m not too sure where you’re coming from.

The Church gives no answer as to what should be done. I presume that the Church would say that someone who has not committed a moral error (as the embryos have not) cannot be put in a genuine moral dilemma. So what explanation does the Church have for not being able to find a moral answer?
 
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