Unwanted, inappropriate attention from my sponsor's son

[WokeUp]

Hello, everyone!

I’m in the process of conversion and I have a problem I’m not sure how to address to anyone in my RCIA program.

My sponsor’s son is attracted to me and has been for a long time now, in spite of me doing nothing to encourage the aforementioned attraction and his inappropriate flirtatious behavior toward me. He is also the same age as my father; he was older than I am now when I was born.

I have a very public retail job and that is how we first came into contact- before I even began the conversion process or met his mother. I was polite, as I have to be on the job, but plainly opposed to the idea of dating someone old enough to be my father who knew nothing about me as a person.

Once I became more active in the church, I met his mother, she figured out that her son wanted me and joked about using me as bait to get him to come to church again because he never did.

Once the sponsors were announced, his mother told me that he agreed to sponsor a guy in my class.

I haven’t been to RCIA in weeks. I haven’t been able to make myself attend, knowing that he will be there. I am just not comfortable. It’s bad enough that I have to endure his flirtatious speech toward me, pickup attempts, and touching me without my consent while I’m working, but to be subject to unwanted attention from someone my dad’s age at church is something I cannot and shouldn’t have to deal with. I didn’t start going to church because I wanted to find a boyfriend, least of all one who could have children my age.

I’m not sure how to address this to anyone or if I should even bother. I guess it would be better than just saying nothing, but I worry that there may be judgment or backlash. His family has been involved in the church and the RCIA process pretty much their whole lives; I’m a young, unbaptized newcomer who, though always spiritual, previously belonged to no religion (I had to state as much several times when introducing myself and a deacon in our class frequently criticizes people who label themselves as such, which adds to my apprehension).

I can’t make myself go back only to be objectified by a man who is more than twice my age, but I worry that in explaining the situation to someone, I would only be shooting myself in the foot, metaphorically speaking.

There have been several other instances in my life in which I have spoken out against inappropriate romantic and/or sexual treatment from men and was only met with inaction from those who were in positions of power and, from others, ridicule and criticism including being called nasty names and basically being told that it was my fault and that I brought it on myself, even in an instance in which I was a child who got forcibly molested by an adult in school even after I said no and tried to leave. So, that explains my apprehension about speaking out.

I apologize that this was so long. I’m just really torn about this and have no idea what to do. Thanks for reading.

 

[DexUK]

First of all:

This is NOT your fault. It never was your fault and it never will be your fault.

This is, in fact, sexual harassment bordering on assault (the unwanted touching). This person should not be allowed anywhere near any authoritative position in the Church.

My recommendations are these…

1. Tell the parish priest. Make a private appointment with him and explain the circumstances of why you feel you cannot attend the RCIA classes - or, if you are not comfortable being alone with him, do it over the telephone or take a chaperone along with you.
2. This person must not be allowed to continue in any authoritative role in the RCIA and from the sounds of it he is a person of a predatory nature who shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near children and adolescents either - therefore contact your parish’s Safeguarding representative and let them know about this person. In the unlikely even that the Safeguarding representative is connected to this person in some way, then contact the Diocese and ask for the contact details of the person in charge of the safeguarding people.

At the very least do BOTH 1 and 2.

Furthermore…

1. If this person EVER touches you again, you say NO. You tell him loudly and clearly (and if there are witnesses, no problem, let them hear it) “Do not touch me. You do not and will never have my permission to do so. If you EVER do it again I will report you to the Police for Sexual Harassment”.
2. If this person EVER comes on to you again or treats you in any way that makes you feel uncomfortable, you tell him loudly and clearly (again, let witnesses hear it if they are there) that you do not appreciate his flirting, he’s old enough to be your father and that he should know better and to stop it immediately.
3. Find a new Sponsor. Anyone who is not intimately known to you (i.e. a very close friend with whom you can say anything) who even jokes about using you as bait in such a way does not have an adequate or acceptable respect for others and is a very poor choice for involvement in RCIA.

It sounds to me like this man and his mother are extremely dysfunctional and immoral. They are not appropriate people for RCIA involvement. The Parish Priest needs to know about this, and if he is not interested, then the Diocesan authorities need to know. Don’t worry that you haven’t been received into the Church yet (and nobody would blame you for taking to your heels and never walking through that particular parish’s door again) - it is even more important to the good people in the Church since you are honestly and innocently seeking God and being prevented from doing so by people who are acting badly.

I strongly urge you to report this. If you are in the United Kingdom, then feel free to contact me privately and I will help you find the required resources in your local diocese (I was, until very recently, my parish’s Children and Vulnerable Adults Safeguarding Representative).

Finally, let me repeat this: This is NOT YOUR FAULT. Do not for one moment feel that you are to blame for the abusive behaviour of another.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

You should of course discuss this with the pastor. Do not let this disrupt your progress toward the Church.

I cannot guarantee if the pastor will take action, but you should report it in any case.

 

[DaveBj]

First of all:

This is NOT your fault. It never was your fault and it never will be your fault.

This is, in fact, sexual harassment bordering on assault (the unwanted touching). This person should not be allowed anywhere near any authoritative position in the Church.

My recommendations are these…

1. Tell the parish priest. Make a private appointment with him and explain the circumstances of why you feel you cannot attend the RCIA classes - or, if you are not comfortable being alone with him, do it over the telephone or take a chaperone along with you.
2. This person must not be allowed to continue in any authoritative role in the RCIA and from the sounds of it he is a person of a predatory nature who shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near children and adolescents either - therefore contact your parish’s Safeguarding representative and let them know about this person. In the unlikely even that the Safeguarding representative is connected to this person in some way, then contact the Diocese and ask for the contact details of the person in charge of the safeguarding people.

At the very least do BOTH 1 and 2.

Furthermore…

1. If this person EVER touches you again, you say NO. You tell him loudly and clearly (and if there are witnesses, no problem, let them hear it) “Do not touch me. You do not and will never have my permission to do so. If you EVER do it again I will report you to the Police for Sexual Harassment”.
2. If this person EVER comes on to you again or treats you in any way that makes you feel uncomfortable, you tell him loudly and clearly (again, let witnesses hear it if they are there) that you do not appreciate his flirting, he’s old enough to be your father and that he should know better and to stop it immediately.
3. Find a new Sponsor. Anyone who is not intimately known to you (i.e. a very close friend with whom you can say anything) who even jokes about using you as bait in such a way does not have an adequate or acceptable respect for others and is a very poor choice for involvement in RCIA.

It sounds to me like this man and his mother are extremely dysfunctional and immoral. They are not appropriate people for RCIA involvement. The Parish Priest needs to know about this, and if he is not interested, then the Diocesan authorities need to know. Don’t worry that you haven’t been received into the Church yet (and nobody would blame you for taking to your heels and never walking through that particular parish’s door again) - it is even more important to the good people in the Church since you are honestly and innocently seeking God and being prevented from doing so by people who are acting badly.

I strongly urge you to report this. If you are in the United Kingdom, then feel free to contact me privately and I will help you find the required resources in your local diocese (I was, until very recently, my parish’s Children and Vulnerable Adults Safeguarding Representative).

Finally, let me repeat this: This is NOT YOUR FAULT. Do not for one moment feel that you are to blame for the abusive behaviour of another.

^This. All of it.

 

[agnes_therese]

You mentioned that you work in retail and that he touches you without your consent when you’re at work – as a veteran of many years in retail, I think you need to report this to management at your workplace, and loss prevention/security if there is any. They need to be aware of this before you have to make a scene next time he does it; because it sounds as though that’s exactly what you’re going to have to do. And they may have some procedures or suggestions to help you.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

You mentioned that you work in retail and that he touches you without your consent when you’re at work – as a veteran of many years in retail, I think you need to report this to management at your workplace, and loss prevention/security if there is any. They need to be aware of this before you have to make a scene next time he does it; because it sounds as though that’s exactly what you’re going to have to do. And they may have some procedures or suggestions to help you.

This. This man is HARASSING you at your work, and that should be reported as a crime. Unwanted touching is ASSAULT. People take this thing VERY seriously now - hopefully your employer will have procedures to deal with it. If not, then call the police and report him. To heck with what happens at church after that. Find a new parish if you have to. But somehow I think others will come out of the woodwork to thank you for reporting him.

 

[The_Bucket]

This. This man is HARASSING you at your work, and that should be reported as a crime. Unwanted touching is ASSAULT. People take this thing VERY seriously now - hopefully your employer will have procedures to deal with it. If not, then call the police and report him. To heck with what happens at church after that. Find a new parish if you have to. But somehow I think others will come out of the woodwork to thank you for reporting him.

On the money, as is DexUK. OP, I know you’ve had problems in the past with persons of authority, but you’ve gotta speak up. Other people probably don’t know what’s going on. You need to tell the priest, you need to tell others who are around you when this guy comes near you. You should do the best you can to be serious, firm and unpanicked when you discuss the issue.

I know it’s a difficult task, but you have to defend yourself and let others know about the situation so they can come to your aid.

 

[rfournier103]

Honestly, I think this has ‘restraining order’ written all over it.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Can you go to another Catholic church?

Can you speak with the priest about it?

This guy may have thought since you chose his mother as a sponsor that this means you accept him and his advances. (Or was your sponsor assigned to you? Where I am from, we choose our own sponsor.)

It may be wise to find another church to attend RCIA.

I also just wanted to note to some of the other posters here that unwanted touching in a sexual way or on private areas warrants only as assault. And for something to be sexual harassment it has to be explicitly sexual, lewd, or at least said in a way that indicates this person is objectifying you as a sex object or is not taking ‘no’ for an answer. I’m not saying that isn’t occurring here, but from what was denoted in the OP(“flirtatious speech toward me, pickup attempts, and touching me without my consent”), I **can’t **assess that it is sexual harassment, which means that her concerns may go on deaf ears.

It sounds more of a creepy old guy who just doesn’t get it that she is not interested in him who takes pot shots to touch her when he can. … and with that I’m also not implying that the OP shouldn’t be cautious around him, only that it sounds like her concerns might get dismissed. I say this only because I do not know what "touching’ means in this case. It could possibly mean he is giving shoulder squeezes- which my sympathy to the OP is disgusting and probably uncomfortable given it is unwanted- but can’t be seen as actual harassment and therefore there might be nothing you can do but leave the situation or just get real tough with this guy.

That is why I think over all if she found a different Catholic Church to attend RCIA it would be better. But also speaking to a trusted priest about this first I think would help. This way, if this guy IS dangerous, then it has been reported to someone in authority that such a behavior was noticed before.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

If you want you can take this to the priest, but frankly I would probably tell him once that I will go to the police if it continues, and then I would follow through.

And in response to the person who said it isn’t sexual harassment/assault unless its overtly lewd or on the genitals, you’re wrong.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Can you go to another Catholic church?

Can you speak with the priest about it?

This guy may have thought since you chose his mother as a sponsor that this means you accept him and his advances. (Or was your sponsor assigned to you? Where I am from, we choose our own sponsor.)

It may be wise to find another church to attend RCIA.

I also just wanted to note to some of the other posters here that unwanted touching in a sexual way or on private areas warrants only as assault. And for something to be sexual harassment it has to be explicitly sexual, lewd, or at least said in a way that indicates this person is objectifying you as a sex object or is not taking ‘no’ for an answer. I’m not saying that isn’t occurring here, but from what was denoted in the OP(“flirtatious speech toward me, pickup attempts, and touching me without my consent”), I **can’t **assess that it is sexual harassment, which means that her concerns may go on deaf ears.

It sounds more of a creepy old guy who just doesn’t get it that she is not interested in him who takes pot shots to touch her when he can. … and with that I’m also not implying that the OP shouldn’t be cautious around him, only that it sounds like her concerns might get dismissed. I say this only because I do not know what "touching’ means in this case. It could possibly mean he is giving shoulder squeezes- which my sympathy to the OP is disgusting and probably uncomfortable given it is unwanted- but can’t be seen as actual harassment and therefore there might be nothing you can do but leave the situation or just get real tough with this guy.

That is why I think over all if she found a different Catholic Church to attend RCIA it would be better. But also speaking to a trusted priest about this first I think would help. This way, if this guy IS dangerous, then it has been reported to someone in authority that such a behavior was noticed before.

No, she should not have to attend another church to get away from this creep. He has no legal right to put his hands on her at all, period. And if he continues to ask her out after she says no, she is well within her rights to go to the police, who will have a little conversation with him.

 

[InigoMontoya]

Please, please, please take to heart what all DexUK posted!

This is not your fault. You can’t have spiritual growth with that sponsor, the relationship has to end immediately. Seriously consider contacting the police if his son touches or harasses you again.

Praying.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

You mentioned that you work in retail and that he touches you without your consent when you’re at work – as a veteran of many years in retail, I think you need to report this to management at your workplace, and loss prevention/security if there is any. They need to be aware of this before you have to make a scene next time he does it; because it sounds as though that’s exactly what you’re going to have to do. And they may have some procedures or suggestions to help you.

Good advice. You should not have to deal with this from anyone while at work. I imagine the store would rather deal with him directly than have you file a police report against him.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Please follow the advice given by DexUK. In the States the Safeguarding title is not used, but the person who is in charge of Virtus is the same thing.

Do not be shy about speaking to your parish priest. However, if you want to speak to someone outside the parish, contact the diocese and ask for the person in charge of Virtus.

The mother, son, and deacon could all use some counseling and the mother and son should NOT be involved in RCIA or any program like that!

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Hello, everyone!

I’m in the process of conversion and I have a problem I’m not sure how to address to anyone in my RCIA program.

My sponsor’s son is attracted to me and has been for a long time now, in spite of me doing nothing to encourage the aforementioned attraction and his inappropriate flirtatious behavior toward me. He is also the same age as my father; he was older than I am now when I was born.

I have a very public retail job and that is how we first came into contact- before I even began the conversion process or met his mother. I was polite, as I have to be on the job, but plainly opposed to the idea of dating someone old enough to be my father who knew nothing about me as a person.

Once I became more active in the church, I met his mother, she figured out that her son wanted me and joked about using me as bait to get him to come to church again because he never did.

Once the sponsors were announced, his mother told me that he agreed to sponsor a guy in my class.

I haven’t been to RCIA in weeks. I haven’t been able to make myself attend, knowing that he will be there. I am just not comfortable. It’s bad enough that I have to endure his flirtatious speech toward me, pickup attempts, and touching me without my consent while I’m working, but to be subject to unwanted attention from someone my dad’s age at church is something I cannot and shouldn’t have to deal with. I didn’t start going to church because I wanted to find a boyfriend, least of all one who could have children my age.

I’m not sure how to address this to anyone or if I should even bother. I guess it would be better than just saying nothing, but I worry that there may be judgment or backlash. His family has been involved in the church and the RCIA process pretty much their whole lives; I’m a young, unbaptized newcomer who, though always spiritual, previously belonged to no religion (I had to state as much several times when introducing myself and a deacon in our class frequently criticizes people who label themselves as such, which adds to my apprehension).

I can’t make myself go back only to be objectified by a man who is more than twice my age, but I worry that in explaining the situation to someone, I would only be shooting myself in the foot, metaphorically speaking.

There have been several other instances in my life in which I have spoken out against inappropriate romantic and/or sexual treatment from men and was only met with inaction from those who were in positions of power and, from others, ridicule and criticism including being called nasty names and basically being told that it was my fault and that I brought it on myself, even in an instance in which I was a child who got forcibly molested by an adult in school even after I said no and tried to leave. So, that explains my apprehension about speaking out.

I apologize that this was so long. I’m just really torn about this and have no idea what to do. Thanks for reading.

Sorry you are going through this. Have you ever told him to stop? Have you ever told him that you are not intrested in him and you dont want to be touched by him? I say that is what you first should have done. Or maybe you did but he continues? But yeah, like many have already told you, I would talk to sombody about it. Going to the police though, I dont think there is much they could do about it. Talk to your Priest. He has probably heard this problem before and will know what to do. If not, then I would say look for another parish.

You are not at fault in any of this either. Good luck.

 

[Bezant]

Can you go to another Catholic church?

Can you speak with the priest about it?

This guy may have thought since you chose his mother as a sponsor that this means you accept him and his advances. (Or was your sponsor assigned to you? Where I am from, we choose our own sponsor.)

It may be wise to find another church to attend RCIA.

I also just wanted to note to some of the other posters here that unwanted touching in a sexual way or on private areas warrants only as assault. And for something to be sexual harassment it has to be explicitly sexual, lewd, or at least said in a way that indicates this person is objectifying you as a sex object or is not taking ‘no’ for an answer. I’m not saying that isn’t occurring here, but from what was denoted in the OP(“flirtatious speech toward me, pickup attempts, and touching me without my consent”), I **can’t **assess that it is sexual harassment, which means that her concerns may go on deaf ears.

It sounds more of a creepy old guy who just doesn’t get it that she is not interested in him who takes pot shots to touch her when he can. … and with that I’m also not implying that the OP shouldn’t be cautious around him, only that it sounds like her concerns might get dismissed. I say this only because I do not know what "touching’ means in this case. It could possibly mean he is giving shoulder squeezes- which my sympathy to the OP is disgusting and probably uncomfortable given it is unwanted- but can’t be seen as actual harassment and therefore there might be nothing you can do but leave the situation or just get real tough with this guy.

That is why I think over all if she found a different Catholic Church to attend RCIA it would be better. But also speaking to a trusted priest about this first I think would help. This way, if this guy IS dangerous, then it has been reported to someone in authority that such a behavior was noticed before.

WokeUp, disregard the above. Ignore it.

You have every right to complain to the police. Should you do so, let the authorities determine what action they can take. But don’t rule out this option because of speculative “legal” opinion on what counts as harassment or assault.

Even if the legal route is a dead end, heed forementioned advice from DexUK, BlueEyedLady and agnes therese.

You have no reason to feel ashamed, or frankly, to worry about protecting anyone but yourself. In my observation, these sort of guys have a go at any given woman. Usually they’ve no bite whatsoever under the bark. If you call him out in public, I bet you he’ll walk with his tail between his legs after that.

 

[WokeUp]

Have you ever told him to stop? Have you ever told him that you are not intrested in him and you dont want to be touched by him? I say that is what you first should have done. Or maybe you did but he continues?

I’ve expressed disinterest, yes, but some guys either just don’t get it or do and think that women can be worn down with continued kindness. I’m no stranger to this kind of treatment from men.

I have never reciprocated any time he touched me. I actually freeze up and move away from the physical contact, so I don’t know how he keeps missing the signal.

When politely averting the conversation upon his pestering me for dates failed to work, I flatly stated, “You don’t even know me.” He looked at me like I was this horrible, rude devil woman but, next time, was back to the old routine, as though I were just having a bad day or something as opposed to being genuinely disinterested.

That’s common in men like that, I’ve noticed. They’re the ones harassing a woman, crossing the line and constantly ignoring and disrespecting her personal boundaries but they demonize her for not going along with this elaborate fantasy they’ve projected onto her and accepting his admiration as though she’s the bad guy in the situation. It’s merely a matter of entitlement issues and misogyny masquerading as chivalry.

Thanks for the advice, everyone, you make valid points and I’m going to contact someone about this.

 

[DaveBj]

I’ve expressed disinterest, yes, but some guys either just don’t get it or do and think that women can be worn down with continued kindness. I’m no stranger to this kind of treatment from men. . . snip

You have to TELL him verbally, in no uncertain terms to STOP that, you DON’T LIKE IT, etc. Without a verbal objection, in some jurisdictions it doesn’t count as sexual harassment. I don’t know what the rules are where you live.

 

[lerapt78]

When politely averting the conversation upon his pestering me for dates failed to work, I flatly stated, “You don’t even know me.” He looked at me like I was this horrible, rude devil woman but, next time, was back to the old routine, as though I were just having a bad day or something as opposed to being genuinely disinterested.

Hi WokeUp,

I understand it can be difficult to be assertive at times, especially if you are rejecting someone’s advancements, but please realize that in your attempts to perhaps minimize the sting of rejection you are giving him the wrong impression. When you said “You don’t even know me”, that didn’t convey the message that you are not physically attracted to him, but probably made him think that he needs to keep trying to get close to you so that he *can *get to know you instead!

You can (and should) still be polite! If he asks you out again, simply tell him that you date men within your general age range. I really don’t see how he could possibly become offended by this - such a desire is not exactly *abnormal *, is it?!!uch: