Up for grabs...

[Truth_Seeker123]

I know how some protestants think, not all though. Some are just flat out weird lol. So I would like for someone/anyone from the catholic faith discuss what they think about the scripture that I’ve provided here…

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (1260 years)

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I know how some protestants think, not all though. Some are just flat out weird lol. So I would like for someone/anyone from the catholic faith discuss what they think about the scripture that I’ve provided here…

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (1260 years)

For one thing I’m not sure the time and a half means 1260 years. I’ll leave that to the experts.

I personally think it refers to the Roman Empire, which in several senses was unlike any empire before or after it. From it’s first beginnings to its fall, it lasted about 1000 years or more. And in the end, the Church took over, but only after much cruel persecution. And since then the Church has never ceased to be, not even on earth.

I suppose you could read end-times references into it, but I’m inclinded to think it meant the Romans, who were only a few hundred years away from dominance of the known world at the time of Daniel.

I think Daniel’s prophecies are all over bar the shouting by the time of Christ.

 

[fbl9]

I know how some protestants think, not all though. Some are just flat out weird lol. So I would like for someone/anyone from the catholic faith discuss what they think about the scripture that I’ve provided here…

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (1260 years)

Sounds like description of the ends times and the anti-christ figure,Whom shall be made know during the fourth kingdom.

When, what is the “fourth” knigdom?

How did you come up with the number 1260?

 

[MMari]

I’m not Catholic but take a minute and google the scripture in the OP and read some commentaries. Find the meaning of the little horn. You are right it does have to do with the end times. The 1260 has to do with times and Nebuchadnezzar. You have to do a little digging but you will find your answer. I’m not trying to be coy I know what this person is after, I just don’t have time to write it all. Or maybe someone else will havee the answer. Sorry.

 

[Truth_Seeker123]

For one thing I’m not sure the time and a half means 1260 years. I’ll leave that to the experts.

I personally think it refers to the Roman Empire, which in several senses was unlike any empire before or after it. From it’s first beginnings to its fall, it lasted about 1000 years or more. And in the end, the Church took over, but only after much cruel persecution. And since then the Church has never ceased to be, not even on earth.

I suppose you could read end-times references into it, but I’m inclinded to think it meant the Romans, who were only a few hundred years away from dominance of the known world at the time of Daniel.

I think Daniel’s prophecies are all over bar the shouting by the time of Christ.

A day in prophecy equals a year (ONLY IN PROPHECY) lol According to the scriptures Number 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. and

Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year

What I am about to say is based on a 7 day week with 30 day months. Which gives you 360 days in a year and not 365 days. You will know this from Genesis chapter 7. I will explain this if you would like for me to.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. equals 1260 years. Lets do the math.

Time=1 year
Times=2 years
Dividing of time=1/2 year
Total is 3 1/2 years or 42 months

42 months times 30 days equals 1260 days. 42x30=1260

We know from the verses above that a day is for a year in prophecy only.
1260 days in prophecy equals 1260 years.

So, Religo-political papal Rome or church and state, reigned for 1260 years. From 538 AD to 1798 AD. During that time, over 150 million Christians were persecuted/killed.

 

[TheQuestioner]

What does 538 have to do with anything?

 

[Truth_Seeker123]

What does 538 have to do with anything?

538 AD to 1798 AD is when papal Rome reign. That time is a total of 1260 years.

 

[TheQuestioner]

And realize that during that time all Christians were Catholic. Also, in what manner were they killed? Are you implying the Church-State killed them? Do you know the reasons why? Could they have been killed trying to evangelize parts of Europe? And if the Churhc state was to reign for 1260 years then why is it still technically around? Are you sure your connection is right with the days? Never assume because a day is a year in one prophecy it is the same in all prophecies.

 

[Reuben_J]

A day in prophecy equals a year (ONLY IN PROPHECY) lol According to the scriptures Number 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. and

Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year

What I am about to say is based on a 7 day week with 30 day months. Which gives you 360 days in a year and not 365 days. You will know this from Genesis chapter 7. I will explain this if you would like for me to.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. equals 1260 years. Lets do the math.

Time=1 year
Times=2 years
Dividing of time=1/2 year
Total is 3 1/2 years or 42 months

42 months times 30 days equals 1260 days. 42x30=1260

We know from the verses above that a day is for a year in prophecy only.
1260 days in prophecy equals 1260 years.

So, Religo-political papal Rome or church and state, reigned for 1260 years. From 538 AD to 1798 AD. During that time, over 150 million Christians were persecuted/killed.

This is just my opinion – but the way you interpret scripture is even more speculative than Catholics whom Protestants accused of being so when we came out with Purgatory and the Immaculate Conception. lol

I reserve my specific comment on most of your speculation of the verses you mentioned except for one - you cannot be truly sure that Genesis 7 used the Gregorian calendar that we are using today. That alone would put your calculations haywire, not to mention the truth of them.

 

[fbl9]

So, Religo-political papal Rome or church and state, reigned for 1260 years. From 538 AD to 1798 AD. During that time, over 150 million Christians were persecuted/killed.

Ineresting way of going about it.Thanks for the answer.

Before quoting such thing as 150 million please think and do the math roughly 400 people per day? Get a grip on math first before spewing any more falsehood like this.

 

[TheQuestioner]

538 AD to 1798 AD is when papal Rome reign. That time is a total of 1260 years.

538 was not the beginning of papal Rome. It seems you took the 1798AD date, subtracted it by 1260 and said that 538 was the beginning of papal Rome. Not true.

It was 380AD when Christianity/Catholicism was the official religion of Rome.

 

[Truth_Seeker123]

This is just an opinion – but the way you interpret scripture is even more speculative than Catholics whom Protestants accused of being so when we came out with Purgatory and the Immaculate Conception. lol

I reserve my specific comment on most of your speculation of the verses you mentioned except for one - you cannot be truly sure that Genesis 7 used the Gregorian calendar that we are using today. That alone would put your calculations haywire, not to mention the truth of them.

I will explain Genesis 7 and 8.

The rain started on the 17th day of the second month and we know this from Genesis 7:11

According to Genesis 8:3,4 the waters receded at the end of 150 days. The ark rested on the 17th day of the 7 month. That is a total of 5 months.

150 days divided by 5 months is a total of 30 days per month. 150/5=30

 

[Truth_Seeker123]

Ineresting way of going about it.Thanks for the answer.

Before quoting such thing as 150 million please think and do the math roughly 400 people per day? Get a grip on math first before spewing any more falsehood like this.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

persecution

 

[Reuben_J]

Ineresting way of going about it.Thanks for the answer.

Before quoting such thing as 150 million please think and do the math roughly 400 people per day? Get a grip on math first before spewing any more falsehood like this.

I think the cat is out of the bag after all. Most probably this poster is one of those Christians who are figuring out how and when the End of the World will come.

I also note with amazement how confident he singled out the exact years when such and such happened; and how he came out with exact figures. Truly he has exclusive knowledge that we all do not have. It is chilling to hear how he can use Scripture with such certainty to read the signs of times.

 

[Truth_Seeker123]

This is just my opinion – but the way you interpret scripture is even more speculative than Catholics whom Protestants accused of being so when we came out with Purgatory and the Immaculate Conception. lol

I reserve my specific comment on most of your speculation of the verses you mentioned except for one - you cannot be truly sure that Genesis 7 used the Gregorian calendar that we are using today. That alone would put your calculations haywire, not to mention the truth of them.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Gregorian calendar

 

[TheQuestioner]

I will explain Genesis 7 and 8.

The rain started on the 17th day of the second month and we know this from Genesis 7:11

According to Genesis 8:3,4 the waters receded at the end of 150 days. The ark rested on the 17th day of the 7 month. That is a total of 5 months.

150 days divided by 5 months is a total of 30 days per month. 150/5=30

Do you know how the Jewish calendar system works? You seem to use their system of days but not their system of months. I believe after a few years they would have an extra month. I could be wrong though.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Gregorian calendar

Yes that’s all well and good but you forgot to address your huge mistake in that the beginning of the ‘Papal Rome’ would have been 380AD, not 538.

 

[Truth_Seeker123]

I think the cat is out of the bag after all. Most probably this poster is one of those Christians who are figuring out how and when the End of the World will come.

I also note with amazement how confident he singled out the exact years when such and such happened; and how he came out with exact figures. Truly he has exclusive knowledge that we all do not have. It is chilling to hear how he can use Scripture with such certainty to read the signs of times.

I’m just using scripture and I don’t want to offend anyone. I am not like others who ignorant in the Word and date setters.

I am simply sharing my protestant views based off of the Bible, which is what this forum is for. To compare/contrast views. I had many people say that I did not open my threads for discussion. Now that I am doing so, you attack me. Why can’t we have an intelligent conversation about the Word of God without attacks being made?

 

[TheQuestioner]

I’m just using scripture and I don’t want to offend anyone. I am not like others who ignorant in the Word and date setters.

I am simply sharing my protestant views based off of the Bible, which is what this forum is for. To compare/contrast views. I had many people say that I did not open my threads for discussion. Now that I am doing so, you attack me. Why can’t we have an intelligent conversation about the Word of God without attacks being made?

While we are having open discussion why don’t we openly discuss 380AD vs. 538AD?

 

[Truth_Seeker123]

Yes that’s all well and good but you forgot to address your huge mistake in that the beginning of the ‘Papal Rome’ would have been 380AD, not 538.

Based off of historical records, papal Rome began it’s reign in 538 AD under Emperor Justinian’s rule.