Up-turned palms when praying the Our Father

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Cruciferi said:
That’s because it is. Technically, the Priest does not have the authority to demand something like this. Nor would it be appropriate for the congregation to bully someone into this practice.

Honestly, this reminds me of my old Parish. The Priest made the kids stand around the altar during the Our Father every Sunday. I found the whole thing ridiculous.
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Another thing that COVID has put a stop to in my parish.
 
DaveBj said:
Finally, and to inject some levity into the discussion, here is Christian comedian Tim Hawkins explaining the various “orans” positions, with some bonus footage on hand sanitizer:
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The ones I see do it in my parish usually use the “Hold my baby” position. And for the most part they are from a different culture. I’ve occasionally used the same one for prayer outside of the liturgical setting.
 
This is just my impression but the people in my church who strike me as probably having really dug into Catholic teaching and traditions are doing the simple folding of hands. I followed suit, and realized the modest hands-folded tradition comes more naturally for me anyway.
 
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felsguy said:
When my pastor makes the Sign of the Cross at the beginning of Mass, so do I. When he traces a cross on his forehead, lips, and heart prior to reading the Gospel, so do I. When he bows his head when pronouncing the name of Jesus, so do I? I hadn’t considered that it was wrong to imitate him thus or that it was upsetting to others around me. Should I stop making these gestures?
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Now you are being disingenuous since you know that those are all things we are specifically told to do. GIRM 124, 134, and 275.
 
Phemie said:
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felsguy:
When my pastor makes the Sign of the Cross at the beginning of Mass, so do I. When he traces a cross on his forehead, lips, and heart prior to reading the Gospel, so do I. When he bows his head when pronouncing the name of Jesus, so do I? I hadn’t considered that it was wrong to imitate him thus or that it was upsetting to others around me. Should I stop making these gestures?
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Now you are being disingenuous since you know that those are all things we are specifically told to do. GIRM 124, 134, and 275.
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Agreed and agreed but do not these gestures imitate, as in “to follow an example or model,” the actions of the celebrant? Why then does imitating only the orans position of prayer lead to so much and so frequent consternation here on CAF even to the point of folks being accused of being priest 'wannabes" ?
 
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felsguy said:
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Phemie:
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felsguy:
When my pastor makes the Sign of the Cross at the beginning of Mass, so do I. When he traces a cross on his forehead, lips, and heart prior to reading the Gospel, so do I. When he bows his head when pronouncing the name of Jesus, so do I? I hadn’t considered that it was wrong to imitate him thus or that it was upsetting to others around me. Should I stop making these gestures?
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Now you are being disingenuous since you know that those are all things we are specifically told to do. GIRM 124, 134, and 275.
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Agreed and agreed but do not these gestures imitate, as in “to follow an example or model,” the actions of the celebrant. Why then does imitating only the orans position of prayer lead to so much and so frequent consternation here on CAF even to the point of folks being accused of being priest 'wannabes" ?
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Because we are not mandated to do so and it seems wrong for the assembly to be doing something that the deacon at the altar cannot do?

It’s actually not something I lose sleep over. I was much more concerned when my former Pastor was insisting that we all recite the doxology of the Eucharistic Prayer.
 
Phemie said:
and it seems wrong for the assembly to be doing something that the deacon at the altar cannot do?
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And so it must seem, to at least some. However realizing that I have allowed myself to become “consterned” 😁 over what causes consternation for others, I will back away now.

Peace
 
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I also have seen this slowly ‘catch on’ over the past 20 years or so. I do not like it. I also do not like holding hands during the Our Father. Some make a huge issue out of stepping into the center aisles to join hands with those across the aisle in those pews. I’ve also seen where some parishes hold hands or put their hands facing up and then raise them (like the priest) at the end. Ugh Ugh Ugh.

I love the Our Father prayer but I like to fold my hands and bow my head and focus on the prayer…
 
sorrowful1 said:
I do both - holding my hands together and the orans posture. I wasn’t aware of people being “allowed” or " not allowed". My first ever church attendance was in a Protestant’s ( it was while trying to “study and observe” Christians when I belonged to an absolutely different faith). . There, I saw people holding their hands high (some crying). I have adopted both the postures, since then. Am I offending the Catholic faith by doing so?
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No, you’re definitely not.

There’s simply no prohibition in regards to praying in “orans” position. That said, it’s totally optional how you want pray the “Our Father” during Mass. The only requirement (if you’re physical able) is to be standing up while your say the prayer in unison with everyone else at the Mass.
 
If the priest or the deacon is requesting that, I would like to see the rubric which supports that. And if there is none (and I am reasonably sure there is not), then the priest is introducing a liturgical posture.

The rubrics at the Our Father is that the congregation is to stand, and the priest is well within liturgical rubrics to say something to the effect “please stand”. Beyond that, not so much.
 
TK421 said:
But a person clasping their hands together or having their palms pressed together and angled towards the ceiling are also bodily gestures which aren’t explicitly in the rubrics,
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And let’s take that one step further: that is in the rubrics for the priest.

So, if the rule is that the orans posture is mimicking the priest, why is the palms together rubric for the priest not mimicking the priest?

This whole issue IMHO gets down to “I don’t like it” on the part of some liturgists, priests and bishops; and it is in the category of the one about holding hands during the Our Father.

I have a picture (which I took) of a group of CAtholic college students, either in the 64-65 school year, or the 65-66 school year, will before the OF was approved in the US. So, about 54 or 55 years ago give or take a smidge.

The GIRM has been produced for the OF and revised what - 2 or three times? - and both the orans (sometimes sort of) position and the hand holding position have been known to Rome (little escapes them when there is such a hew (or hue) and cry as has been going on for the vast majority of that time by congregants, priests, and likely bishops.

And what has Rome had to say, either in a revision of the GIRM or an accomanying or seperate letter to the US (bishops, or everyone)?

Absolutely nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Didn’t happen.

So if it does not put Rome’s knicker is a wad, is there a message , even subliminally, here?

I truly do not have a dog in the fight. I pray the LOTH privately, book in one hand and palm of the other facing upwards and at the same height.

Once in a while I might pray the Our Father at Mass in a similar position; most of the time I don’t. And out of charity, I neither instigate holding hands nor reject holding hands during the Our Father - it is up to the person next to me to do so or not do so. I DON’T CARE. Out of all the issues that my parishes have had to face, all the issues my archdiocese has had to face, all the issues the US Catholic faithful, parishes, and dioceses have had to face, this one ain’t one of them.
 
I pray as I was taught a long time ago, hands folded. I like that best. Others can do as they wish.
 
Does that same principal apply when the Priest says “The Lord be with you” “Lift up your hearts” etc? Folks at my congregation always turn up their palms for that and it doesn’t feel right to me… Too close to the priestly gestures.
 
I personally find it uncomfortable to imitate the priest’s gestures.

I have noticed that some congregations from cultures other than my own do it, so maybe for them it’s cultural.

I normally don’t see people from my own culture gesturing during the parts you mention, unless they are charismatics.

I think there is also a certain amount of monkey see - monkey do in these types of gestures. If a handful of people at Mass start doing something, pretty soon it seems to spread to a lot of others who see them and just imitate what they see others doing.

It doesn’t bother me enough that I’m going to go pester the priest about it, I just refrain from doing the gesture myself and leave it at that.
 
That seems reasonable. My wife is from the Dominican Republic and she does it too. I think I’ve seen some folks doing it in my travels in DR and in Costa Rica, etc. Maybe it is a cultural thing. Either way, I just keep my palms together in front of me (think praying hands or “yoga - Namaste” gesture) and let others do things their own way. If Father Charles doesn’t like something or finds something inappropriate, I’m sure he’ll address it.
 
Father is likely to take the same position as Father Inthepew did in this thread, and just be happy people are at Mass, praying. Especially in this current time when many people are not going to Mass at all.
 
When the priest holds his hands that way he is offering prayers for the congregation thats not the only time he does it - its not necessary. Why don’t people do it in other parts of the mass when he holds his hands out palm up.
 
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