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Allweather
Guest
That is exactly correct. It either is, or it isn’t. My fiance, a veteran of 20+ years as a Mormon, not being spiritually fed by said Mormon church, has now come home to the faith of her childhood… the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. In fact, she is on a Cursillo this weekend, up in the mountains of New Mexico. (I am so excited).
Two things finally worked to convince her of the falsity of the Mormon church. First, the Great Apostasy. This is such an obviously phony claim, so easy to see through, that it really doesn’t take a lot of argument. Just look around you, Bump. Think. Read. Pray. You will eventually see the lie of the Great Apostasy. Second, polygamy. She had been taught almost nothing about polygamy during her years as a Mormon. Evidently, Mormons don’t dwell much on that subject anymore, even though it remains a very important feature of Mormon belief, if not practice. I spent several months reading to her (she’s not a very avid reader herself) out of various sources, showing her the facts about Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the polygamous teachings of the Mormon church.
Now, she is back home, feeling regret for having led some of her family members astray. I’ve asked her to memorize Romans 8:28: All things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. No regrets. Go forward. Pray. Learn the truth. Tell others about the truth.
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Nan_S
Guest
Mormon theology is that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one in purpose and intent, but separate in being. They are “spiritually” one but physically three different gods. The Son and the Holy Ghost are spirit-children of the Father.
Catholic theology is that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one in both purpose and being, but three persons in a perfect trinity. It’s like three sides of one triangle. They have co-existed throughout eternity as one God, even when time and the universe did not exist.
Here’s the easiest example I have seen to demonstrate the Catholic concept of the trinity:
A dog is zero persons in one being.
Your are one person in one being.
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three persons in one being.
Since you and I can not fuse our physical bodies together, Jesus in Jn 17:11 was talking about us being spiritually united. Romans 12:4-5 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
In the concept of the Trinity we reconcile the unwavering emphasis that God is One, and that there is only One God, with Jesus statements about himself being God:
Jn 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word [Jesus Christ], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
Jn 8:57-59 The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they took up stones to throw at him; [they thought He was blaspheming].
And I say again: if true, the Book of Mormon has absolutely enormous religious and historical implications for the entire world. Extremely close scruitiny and scientific study of the evidence is therefore essential.
So respect your parents wishes and study hard. Read everything, and never, ever, be afraid to ask questions. Through such effort truth is made known to us.
Hope this helps.
Nan
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RNRobert
Guest
That’s a good recommendation. I was a fundamentalist Christian and had a friend who was trying to get me to go to RCIA class to learn more about the Catholic faith. I wouldn’t listen to him as I “knew the Bible” and felt Catholicism was wrong. Then I met someone who was Eastern Orthodox who talked about their faith with me. Orthodoxy was different enough from Catholicism for me to listen, but close enough to get an understanding of the Catholic viewpoint. I eventually did go to RCIA class and converted in 1996.
Golly… my **1,000th **post!
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
There was an amazing Apostasy thread a few weeks ago:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=131429
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truthsilence
Guest
God Bless you on your journey, BumpSetSpike.
I think the Trinity is one of the most challenging things to grasp, coming from an LDS backgound. When you look at LDS theology on the surface, it looks like it “makes sense”. However once you look any further beyond just the surface, it becomes less and less clear: God had a Father, He had a Father, and He had a Father?..and so on… and so on - so where did it all begin?
In addition to this LDS teaching regarding the very nature of God being un-biblical, (because God has always been God), it completely misses the point about us all becoming One as Chirst has promised.
Try to imagine that God is and always has been, from all eternity, a Relationship: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We were created by God to share in, and become One with, that relationship. God created us, to *share Himself *with us! The most profound way we experience this in mortality is through Communion. When Jesus comes to us in the Sacrament of the Eucharist, we become *One with God *in such an awesome and indescribable way. We truly receive Christ when we receive the Blessed Sacrament. We become One.
When we reach heaven we will be One in a way that we don’t yet begin to understand. In the meantime as was promised, Jesus has given us His church, and the Sacraments, most importantly the Eucharist, which is at the very center of our faith.
Peace be with you.
Tami
I think the Trinity is one of the most challenging things to grasp, coming from an LDS backgound. When you look at LDS theology on the surface, it looks like it “makes sense”. However once you look any further beyond just the surface, it becomes less and less clear: God had a Father, He had a Father, and He had a Father?..and so on… and so on - so where did it all begin?
In addition to this LDS teaching regarding the very nature of God being un-biblical, (because God has always been God), it completely misses the point about us all becoming One as Chirst has promised.
Try to imagine that God is and always has been, from all eternity, a Relationship: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We were created by God to share in, and become One with, that relationship. God created us, to *share Himself *with us! The most profound way we experience this in mortality is through Communion. When Jesus comes to us in the Sacrament of the Eucharist, we become *One with God *in such an awesome and indescribable way. We truly receive Christ when we receive the Blessed Sacrament. We become One.
When we reach heaven we will be One in a way that we don’t yet begin to understand. In the meantime as was promised, Jesus has given us His church, and the Sacraments, most importantly the Eucharist, which is at the very center of our faith.
Peace be with you.
Tami
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sterryfamily
Guest
Hey Bump,
Above all, be patient. Always be patient. I know it sometimes seems hard, and your road will certainly be difficult, but be patient. The Lord is working something in you that may even take many years (and you’ll likely drag others along with you), bu in the end, it is gonna be awesome. Smile and know that He has a plan!
And my two cents…it may seem over simplified, but it always comes down to this;
Christ told us He came to establish His Church. He promised His eternal protection to her (“Anything you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven”, “I will send My Spirit to guide you into all truth”, “…I will build My Church and the gates of hell will never prevail against it”, “Lo, I am with you even to the end of time”). Therefore, for the Church to have fallen into apostasy would necessarily mean that Christ either; a) lied, or b) didn’t know what he was talking about. So reformation or restoration would both be moot points, huh?
Anyway…good luck and God Bless! Will be praying for you.
Above all, be patient. Always be patient. I know it sometimes seems hard, and your road will certainly be difficult, but be patient. The Lord is working something in you that may even take many years (and you’ll likely drag others along with you), bu in the end, it is gonna be awesome. Smile and know that He has a plan!
And my two cents…it may seem over simplified, but it always comes down to this;
Christ told us He came to establish His Church. He promised His eternal protection to her (“Anything you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven”, “I will send My Spirit to guide you into all truth”, “…I will build My Church and the gates of hell will never prevail against it”, “Lo, I am with you even to the end of time”). Therefore, for the Church to have fallen into apostasy would necessarily mean that Christ either; a) lied, or b) didn’t know what he was talking about. So reformation or restoration would both be moot points, huh?
Anyway…good luck and God Bless! Will be praying for you.
S
servingHim
Guest
May I suggest the book Have You Witnessed to a Mormon Lately? by James Spencer? He is an ex member of the church who served in very high positions. He did extensive research and as a result came to realize the Mormon church cannot be true. He explains his research in extremely easy to understand language and I literally read the book entirely in a matter of a few hours because I could not put it down!! My father is LDS and I have numerous friends as well who are - this book opened my eyes beyond anything I could ever have imagined. Hope you look into it!!!
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BumpSetSpike
Guest
Thanks guys.
Unfortunately I really have to go. I can’t keep using my friends computer! I might visit once in a while, though I really shouldn’t. The people who said to respect my parents, you are right. It’s hard as a teenager! But if I really want to try to be the better person for myself and others, then I should. That will be my toughest obstacle, haha.
ServingHim, thanks for the book suggestion. I will look forward to reading it.
Unfortunately I really have to go. I can’t keep using my friends computer! I might visit once in a while, though I really shouldn’t. The people who said to respect my parents, you are right. It’s hard as a teenager! But if I really want to try to be the better person for myself and others, then I should. That will be my toughest obstacle, haha.
ServingHim, thanks for the book suggestion. I will look forward to reading it.
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Libertas
Guest
Galatians 1:8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
Sed licet nos aut angelus de caelo evangelizet vobis praeterquam quod evangelizavimus vobis anathema sit
1:9. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
That discredits mormonism right there.
I do hope you join the Catholic faith.
Sed licet nos aut angelus de caelo evangelizet vobis praeterquam quod evangelizavimus vobis anathema sit
1:9. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
That discredits mormonism right there.
I do hope you join the Catholic faith.
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Lion_of_Narnia
Guest
Thanks guys.
Unfortunately I really have to go. I can’t keep using my friends computer! I might visit once in a while, though I really shouldn’t. The people who said to respect my parents, you are right. It’s hard as a teenager! But if I really want to try to be the better person for myself and others, then I should. That will be my toughest obstacle, haha.
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Soon enough (though time seems to crawl at your age, i remember) you will be of a majority age–when you can go to an RCIA class and ask questions of a Catholic, and not just of an LDS seminary teacher
Respect and love your parents, of course. That dosn’t mean you believe what they believe if what they believe is an error, even a well-intentioned error. There a certain actor from Austrailia (we all know who) who’s “Catholic” but believes the nonsense of hi schismatic anti-semitic father–who cant seem to keep the truth of the Faith seperate from his emotional connection to his dad.
Keep this in mind–176 years since the BoM was published–and not ONE shred of physical evidence supports it’s claims
My prayers to you and yours
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yugnok
Guest
Hi,
Some things I would like to say about why I am a Catholic and not a member of LDS. This is usually the discussion I have when some LDS men come knocking on my door. There are about 100 reasons I could give, but I’ll try to keep it brief.
The Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded. If I were to believe in the Apostasy, for me that would be like saying that Jesus was a failure and needed to amend his work by sending a prophet to fix things. I believe that when Jesus walked this earth he knew what he was doing and put everything in place until his second coming. As he said, “I am with you always.” He warned us about prophets that would come and he said “don’t believe them.” My faith in Jesus is connected to my believe that the Church was and still is his work which cannot fail. I don’t believe Jesus needs Joseph Smith to fix his Church. As one author said, “I can no more leave the Catholic Church than I can slap Jesus in the face.” That’s how I feel about it.
Also, my understanding of God is as the all-powerful, all- perfect, infinite, supremely beautiful, transcendent, creator of the universe. The “first and the last, alpha and the omega” The necessary first cause of all that exists. The uncreated cause of all things. I believe this philosophically through reason and because of divine revelation.
As I understand it, Mormans believe that God the Father is a being with a body with flesh and bones. Who himself has a father, etc. That is not the God that I believe in. I think a good look at the Bible as a whole will show that the God I speak of is the one who reveals himself. That kind of God would need my God to exist in order to create him. I just find the Morman concept of God (if I understand it right) to be a kind of primitive or pagan way of understanding God from the ancient world. God goes to great lengths to seperate himself from that understanding of his being. Thats why he calls himself “I AM”. He refuses to take a name like the other Gods of the surrounding territories but gives himself a name that speaks to himself as the self-existent cause of all things–the supreme being. God is “He who is.” Thats why idolatry is strictly forbidden. God does not wish to be associated with images because he is a spiritual being. If I were to believe in the Morman God I would feel like I were committing a kind of atheism.
Ok I’ll shut up now. So much for keeping it brief. haha.
I don’t say these things to make you feel guilty. Guilt is no way to spread the truth. I just believe they are true. I hope my words are helpful.
I know that you must be having a great deal of pulling at your conscience. I’m very sorry to hear that your parents are forbidding you to read the forums. It makes me sad. I wonder if my parents would have done the same thing had I been looking into Mormonism as a teenager. Probably.
It is also important to respect your parents. I believe they have your best interests at heart. You also have to act in accord with your own conscience. At some point, they are going to have to let you pursue truth according to your own conscience.
The important thing is that you are trying always to please God. God isn’t crazy and won’t condemn those who seek him honestly, by the promptings of the Holy Spirit, even if through no fault of their own they end up in error. Be not afraid.
God Bless
S
sadie2723
Guest
Welcome back! We missed you!
Well, I have a solution for you…maybe. I am going to tell you what worked for me when I was in your shoes.
I was really having a hard time with the decision to become Catholic. Like you, I faced being turned away by my family. It was hard. I had a lot of people trying to talk me out of it. So one day I had kind of a revelation. I realized that the reason I was considering becoming Catholic was that I wanted to be closer to God. So, I had a frank conversation with God on the subject…God and I tend to work like that.
I just asked him, “God, what do you want me to do? I can’t figure this out on my own, and I need you to show me the way.”
While I will not get into the heavy details here, I had my answer…quick!
The point is this. You are seeking a closer relationship with God, and that is clear. But, right now you feel far from him. When I get like that, I find that all I really have to do is ask God where he is and what he wants me to do. If you try this, God will never send you in the wrong direction.
We love you!
Brad
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BumpSetSpike
Guest
Thank you again guys. I cannot tell you how much your hospitality means to me.
I don’t know what to do. I feel like I’m loosing control over my life and I am stressing out. I don’t know what to believe, the doctrines are so different. I just want to find the right church but everything has to be so complicated.
I’m not sure why I turned to God and religion in the first place, but I thought it would help me and make me somewhat content with myself; Sometimes I just think to taking the easy way out sounds nice. I really don’t care where I end up.
I’m sorry I am sounding negative here… but I’m really not sure about things anymore.
I don’t know what to do. I feel like I’m loosing control over my life and I am stressing out. I don’t know what to believe, the doctrines are so different. I just want to find the right church but everything has to be so complicated.
I’m not sure why I turned to God and religion in the first place, but I thought it would help me and make me somewhat content with myself; Sometimes I just think to taking the easy way out sounds nice. I really don’t care where I end up.
I’m sorry I am sounding negative here… but I’m really not sure about things anymore.
L
LittleDeb
Guest
Praying for you now.
Please remember to pray even if you feel silly doing it. As Catholics we can say the most simple prayer. One word, Jesus. As an LDS you are discouraged from worshipping Jesus. For the LDS, Jesus is a god but is not The God.I would encourage you in this moment to say, “Jesus, I love you. Jesus, I worship You. Jesus, I adore you.” See if that brings you peace. I’m praying that for you right now.
If it is too much to say that, just know that there are others praying those words for Jesus to bring you peace and comfort.
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Nan_S
Guest
Which simply means you’re a normal teenager. We’ve all been there. You’re not alone. Relax.
None of us are worthy on our own. But God made us the way we are, and loves us the way we are. Seek Him in humility.
Don’t worry so much about having it exactly right, right now. Here’s a quote from the Catholic Catechism that you may find helpful:
CCC Paragraph 847 Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.
And you can find something similarly encouraging in the Book of Mormon:
1st Nephi 10:19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.
Be at peace.
Nan
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Revelation13_16
Guest
Hi Bump,
Sometimes you can think Christianity was a bad thing to bring into your life, but you always must remember that without Christianity your life is merely the waiting room for hell.
Yeah I know, dramatic, but true.
I feel somewhat dispondant at times too.
In my quest to investigate Catholicism - as it stands now - I believe that no church follows that first generation of believers after Christ died.
None.
They’ve all expounded and added things.
I think perhaps one of your mistakes is that you’re trying to go from Mormonism to Catholicism, and it’s a huge gap.
I think what you should do is this.
Just ask yourself if Mormonism is true or not, that’s all.
If yes, stay.
If not, go.
Whether Catholicism is true, or whether Orthodox is instead, these are huge issues and require alot of research IMHO.
I think if you come to the conclusion that Mormonism isn’t true, leave it and maybe go to an Anglican/Episocpalian church in the meantime while you continue your research.
It’s much easier to make the jump from Anglicanism to Catholicism/Orthodoxy than it is to make the jump from Mormonism.
Food for thought.
God Bless, (I’ll pray for you)
Rev
W
water
Guest
I was wondering why it is easier to go with Anglicanism than with Catholicism?
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Revelation13_16
Guest
I don’t think your question comes from a genuine motive but nevertheless I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Bump isn’t convinced Catholicism is the truth yet, ergo she won’t make the blind faith leap (see below) until she’s convinced.
Catholicism ----------- Protestantism ----------- Mormonism
To be convinced something is true takes time - unless one’s an idiot, the idiot can just hop to any faith recommended on peoples say so.
Mormonism came out of Protestantism, subtract the Book of Mormon and Morals & Dogma, and all you have is the Bible - welcome to Protestantism.
Anglicanism is the closest to Catholicism than any other Protestant denomonation, there she’ll find the Nicene Creed said along with the Apostles Creed, surplices, and the Book of Common Prayer. (compare to missal)
If she’s going to make the jump to Catholicism then, things will be familiar for her, moreso than it would be if she came out of LDS into Methodism or the Baptist faith.
Therefore, I think it’s the best play (logically) for her during this confusing time.
God Bless,
Rev
W
water
Guest
You don’t think it is but then you would give me the benefit of the doubt? How nice!
When you tried to help someone, give some reasons instead of a short statement which gives readers no clue.
You don’t need to hop from one church to another church. If it is God’s work and you are opened up to it, He puts you right where He wants you to be.
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