Update on my family

[holly_potter]

A while back I’d posted under “Family Finances” about my family troubles, about how one Sunday after my engagement my dad somehow thought I didn’t want him to walk me down the aisle, and then he told me to get my own phone, health insurance, pay up my car, etc.

I appreciated all of your guys’ advice. I’m staying strong, as friends on here and at work/home/school have all told me to. But I’m having a bit of a hard time right now.

Here’s the update. I wrote my parents a long letter (10 1/2 pages), as some of you have suggested. My mom was wanting to know my side, my point of view in the whole debacle. I had been careful in what I said to my folks, especially my dad. I would stragetically not say things that I knew about, in order to keep the peace. Like how I accidentally saw a bank statement detailing that he had over 40,000 dollars in loans that, when I told my mom about how I accidentally saw it, she said it was to cover the month to month shortfall in budgeting. I told Dad that. I told him what I knew about his finances…stuff I learned by deduction, slipups my parents would say, what my mom outright told me, etc.

I told him I opened my own bank acct separate from my joint one with him because of what little I knew about his finances, that he had over 100,000 dollars in debt (mom told me that one) and I knew that the bank will take my money since it’s both our names on my old account, if Dad ever happened to go bankrupt or something. I just wanted a place where I can in an emergency transfer all my money over to the other bank account. So if he ever defaulted on a loan, I won’t be up a creek.

I told him why I became more distant, because he mentioned in one email about how I started becoming more distant starting in late highschool years. So I told him the truth. Basically, he scared me. I was keeping my distance in order to keep from upsetting him and setting off a major mood swing. I was walking on egg shells. I’m still trying to get over my fear of older men–I thought all fathers were like my dad. I told him that I was scared of my fiance’s dad, my bff’s dad, and nearly all other friends’ fathers I might meet.

I reminded him that starting in my junior year I was taking many classes and being active in the homeschooling community, and how I was working two jobs my senior year, as well as planning graduation and college and stuff. I was just plain ol’ busy, so of course I wasn’t home as often.

I told him that his mood swings contributed to my migraines and other stress-related illnesses, like the persistent bronchial cough that mimicked asthma I had last winter. The doctors for my migraine and that illness, and a few other smaller ones, have cautioned me, because they knew it was stress related.

I recounted the whole story that caused this whole blowup in the first place, too, quoting from all the correspondence I got from Dad and Mom. I said about those times he asked me “Do you hate me?” and I wouldn’t respond–he was in a mood when he would ask me that, so any answer I gave him would be used against me. So I would sidestep the question.

I closed with how, yes, I do love him, I just don’t like his mood swings. (I also mentioned how I almost wondered if he was bipolar, because he would go out and buy a bunch of stuff we don’t need after he blew up against us, or after he felt low.) I emailed it on Thursday.

And then I got a letter back from him on Saturday morning. After reading it, I had to ask my boss if I could go home early, because I couldn’t trust myself to stop from crying.

[post to be continued for easier reading]

 

[holly_potter]

I’m going to do this in parts because sometimes the page acts weird and my posts get deleted…But this is my dad’s letter to me. I’m only quoting bits of it since it’s about 11 1/2 pages long.

You also changed what you told mother to make it sound like it was her fault for misunderstanding and for not asking the right questions. The fact is, you didn’t want me to be giving you away and then you tried to backtrack and insulted your mother as a result. You can twist it anyway you want, but you know what you did.

In all the weddings I’ve ever been to in various denominations, the bride’s parents never both walk her down the aisle. The need to be “equal” is a new-age, feminist issue. I think you should talk to a real priest about these issues instead of non-Catholics like your UNO counselor.

My debts are no concern to you, but needless to say we did what we needed to do to provide for you and your siblings since the day you were born. We paid for our own copays, deductibles, etc. for all of your ear molds, eye surgeries, implant, and more. If I have any problem with money, it’s that I’m way too generous with it for all of you.

You had no responsibilities except to let your mother know where you were so she didn’t have to worry. All you had to do was to clean your room and you couldn’t even manage to do that. Most of the time when you were asked to babysit when I was teaching and your mother was singing, I’d come home to find the house a mess as you didn’t even seem to be willing or capable of having the children do their chores before going to bed. That shouldn’t have been a problem, you didn’t even have to do it; you just had to have them do it, but you wouldn’t and then you’d either make an excuse or blow me off when I’d bring it to your attention. Talk about rude.

No, you didn’t want me up there with you at the wedding. You said yourself (and Jeff confirmed it) you didn’t want the father giving away the bride. You wanted to break that up out of fear of being subservient and it being a business deal, so what should have been my role of honor as father of the bride was reduced to trailing you two up the aisle or having to share the escort with everyone else. Your mother’s role as mother of the bride was diminished also. Again, you changed what you said later to cover your rear. You simply didn’t want me to be that part of your wedding.

Apologizing in front of your siblings is showing them the wrong thing to do? Sheesh! Where do you get your ideas? You’ve never liked to apologize to anyone throughout your life. You are just stubborn. Showing your siblings to apologize even when you don’t think you’re wrong is a much more powerful lesson than anything else. And besides, the kids don’t know anything about it so you’re just making an excuse to show your feminist attitude that apologizing to me would be the wrong thing to do for your siblings. So what? How would they even know what happens between you and me? That’s twisted thinking. If you think you are going to try to spread your feminist, new age agenda on your siblings, you have another thing coming.

You don’t buy people things to show them “great love”. That’s why I pay you back for your gifts; that’s not the “love” I want. I don’t owe you anything whereas you owe me everything in life thus far. Talk to the priest and look it up in the Bible, children owe everything to their parents and should respect them. Pray about that.

 

[holly_potter]

Part 3

I didn’t disown you. Since you didn’t want any business dealings with me, like giving you away at the wedding, I cut out all the other business dealings with you. If you were so worried about me going bankrupt or whatever, then it’s best to cut any business ties with me whatsoever, isn’t it? After all, you did the same thing, didn’t you? Who disowned who? It sure looks like you disowned me.

You weren’t depressed before your high school graduation; you were spoiled and acting out. Get the facts straight. Your behavior was appalling. Make sure that when you spread this letter around to everyone like you did the last one that you let them know you acted like a spoiled brat just as you did years ago in the store when you threatened your mother to yell up a storm to make everyone think she was a bad mother. You’ve been trying that nonsense for years and it’s ridiculous you are still doing the same thing at age 21 spreading my thoughts and words around to everyone trying to drum up support for your side of the story without others really knowing how you behave. How immature can you get?

You just needed a swift kick in your virtual rear to teach you to take the focus off you and to think of others even IF you were depressed. Being depressed doesn’t give you the right to go around acting ungrateful. Get over yourself.

If I’ve made you ill due to stress, then that’s your issue because you don’t handle stress well.

Why should I talk to you at times in the past when you were being rude to us? After all, you often went for days upon days not talking at all to me. Should we figure out how many times you were rude or didn’t talk to Cameron, too? Or, how many times you were rude and sarcastic with your mother avoiding her and sometimes not talking to her either? Believe me, you wouldn’t like to see those figures.

You had a nice, rent-free home. We bought your food. We paid many of your bills. You had a car and the freedom to come and go as you pleased. So, if you want to listen to a stranger tell you what to do, that’s fine. Personally, I think it was a selfish and stupid thing to do.

You have some twisted realities that you make up for yourself, but they don’t fool your mom or me. We know all about you and your behaviors and your strange logic that you hate to see brought to light.

That’s what bothers you the most about me is that I would never let you get away with anything. I was never afraid to call you on all of your strange ideas, fake stories, and excuses for your misbehaviors. You hate that I made you behave. If I hadn’t been here, you would have walked all over your mother. You were so rude to her so often that I had to stand up to you for her. Some day you’ll have to account to God for all the times you hurt your mother, your brother, and me. Believe me, you won’t like to see the number of times it happened.

As far as your wedding goes, I don’t see a need for me to be there since I don’t really have a role as father of the bride because otherwise it would be a business dealing and we don’t want that, do we? So, that takes one less stress off your plate–dad won’t be there. That should make you and Jeff happy and well. I won’t be causing either of you to be ill, will I? Made it easy for you didn’t I? Now you won’t have to pretend you want me there.

Cameron and Mom can do what they want about going if you invite them. Your younger siblings won’t be attending if I don’t, no matter what.

It’s all in your court now and not in ours. If you decide to get over yourself and the silly notion about being subservient to me then you let me know. If you want me to be part of the wedding and give you away, then you’ll have to ask and I’ll consider it given your health whenever I’m around. If you ever decide that you are not above apologizing for your part in all of this, then you let me know. If you finally decide to act like a daughter and show your father some respect, let me know. If you decide to act like an adult and deal with life and people like they are rather than thinking you know all about them, their finances, and everything else, then you let me know. I’d much rather be involved in my daughter’s life, but if you can’t handle that, then it’s your problem and I won’t worry about it one bit. You made your bed, you lie in it.

It’s up to you to decide how you want to stay in touch with your mother via email or phone. Until things are resolved between you and me, your siblings are off limits so save your money and time when it comes to presents and such. Don’t plan on visiting either until we get all this resolved and that’s entirely up to you now.

In case I don’t hear from you again, Good bye, daughter. It was nice knowing you for 21 years.

I sincerely hope you and Jeff have a wonderful life.

 

[1ke]

Holly,

I’m going to repost what I posted in the other thread:

*Your parents are emotionally abusive, and possibly both have mental problems. They certainly sound like they stopped maturing at about age 13.

I am glad you have found your fiance and his family to show you what normal families are like.

Stop trying to please your parents, you will never be able to do so. Stop worrying about what they think, what you “did” to them (nothing), and how to tiptoe around them.

You are headed in the right direction with becoming totally financially independent of them. Try to become emotionally independent as well. They are still hurting you by making you think you have done something wrong and that if you could just figure out the “right” thing then they would love you unconditionally. These people are not capable of that type of love. *

So to this I will add:

Stop writing long emails to them. Stop trying to “explain” your side. Stop opening up yourself to more abuse by trying to “fix” the situation, by trying to find out what it is you can do to make things different. You cannot do anything to fix this, make it different, or stop the abuse.

It doesn’t matter what you say. There is only one side: theirs. There is only one explanation: the one that fits your father’s mental scenario. There is only one person that counts in this: your father, by his own reckoning.

So, I will just say: STOP.

It’s painful, but you may need to stop having contact-- period.

Your parents have serious issues.

 

[holly_potter]

Holly,

I’m going to repost what I posted in the other thread:

*Your parents are emotionally abusive, and possibly both have mental problems. They certainly sound like they stopped maturing at about age 13.

I am glad you have found your fiance and his family to show you what normal families are like.

Stop trying to please your parents, you will never be able to do so.* Stop worrying about what they think, what you “did” to them (nothing), and how to tiptoe around them.

You are headed in the right direction with becoming totally financially independent of them. Try to become emotionally independent as well. They are still hurting you by making you think you have done something wrong and that if you could just figure out the “right” thing then they would love you unconditionally. These people are not capable of that type of love.

So to this I will add:

Stop writing long emails to them. Stop trying to “explain” your side. Stop opening up yourself to more abuse by trying to “fix” the situation, by trying to find out what it is you can do to make things different. You cannot do anything to fix this, make it different, or stop the abuse.

It doesn’t matter what you say. There is only one side: theirs. There is only one explanation: the one that fits your father’s mental scenario. There is only one person that counts in this: your father, by his own reckoning.

So, I will just say: STOP.

It’s painful, but you may need to stop having contact-- period.

Your parents have serious issues.

Thanks, 1ke…It’s incredibly painful, but after this letter I realized that is what I have to do…stop having contact with them.

But I do wonder if I should abide by his dictum of not contacting my siblings, or should I continue to send them cards for holidays and stuff? I don’t want them growing up thinking I hate them…

 

[1ke]

But I do wonder if I should abide by his dictum of not contacting my siblings, or should I continue to send them cards for holidays and stuff? I don’t want them growing up thinking I hate them…

Do what you can until they are 18, and then you can have a relationship with them on your own terms.

I am sure you can somehow get word to them that you do not hate them and that it is your father who is keeping you apart.

Send cards and such if you want, but it may aggrevate the situation and put your siblings in the middle or make them targets of your father so be cautious in this regard.

 

[holly_potter]

Do what you can until they are 18, and then you can have a relationship with them on your own terms.

I am sure you can somehow get word to them that you do not hate them and that it is your father who is keeping you apart.

Send cards and such if you want, but it may aggrevate the situation and put your siblings in the middle or make them targets of your father so be cautious in this regard.

Okay, thanks for the caution. I’m sorry I didn’t listen the first time around about cutting off contact with them…I guess I was in denial.

I definitely don’t want to make my siblings targets or put them in the middle. I think birthday and Christmas stuff will hopefully be alright…it just will be a long time before they’re 18 (or 19 in my state). I guess that’s where prayer comes in. (8-14 more years for the youngest four, so it’s a long time )

 

[kevinsgirl]

I heartily agree with 1ke, holly. :hug1:

Also, I’d suggest taking all the letters and emails (save them to a disk) and putting them in a large envelope in your closet or some other out of the way place. I’d hestitate to throw them away because if your parents do something else that’s wacky they will probably deny their earlier craziness–and you may need to refer back to those letters at some point. However I would make sure they are put away so you don’t stress yourself out anymore–and if those letters and emails are lying around, you probably will look at them again from time to time. It’s hard to make a clean break…believe me, I know. :hug1:

And if your parents/brother contact you again, don’t pick up the phone (they can leave a message), don’t answer the email, don’t read the letter at work. Your boss can only be supportive up to a point–you don’t want to bring more family drama to work than you have to.

You’re doing good, holly. You’re moving forward–and don’t worry. You’ll have a relationship with your siblings as they grow up. My parents kept me from my siblings for awhile too but as my siblings grow up they turn more and more to me to help them as they have to take similar steps dealing with my parents. Your brothers and sisters are picking up on this more than you realize and when they go through the same thing, they’ll understand even more.

 

[holly_potter]

I heartily agree with 1ke, holly. :hug1:

Also, I’d suggest taking all the letters and emails (save them to a disk) and putting them in a large envelope in your closet or some other out of the way place. I’d hestitate to throw them away because if your parents do something else that’s wacky they will probably deny their earlier craziness–and you may need to refer back to those letters at some point. However I would make sure they are put away so you don’t stress yourself out anymore–and if those letters and emails are lying around, you probably will look at them again from time to time. It’s hard to make a clean break…believe me, I know. :hug1:

And if your parents/brother contact you again, don’t pick up the phone (they can leave a message), don’t answer the email, don’t read the letter at work. Your boss can only be supportive up to a point–you don’t want to bring more family drama to work than you have to.

You’re doing good, holly. You’re moving forward–and don’t worry. You’ll have a relationship with your siblings as they grow up. My parents kept me from my siblings for awhile too but as my siblings grow up they turn more and more to me to help them as they have to take similar steps dealing with my parents. Your brothers and sisters are picking up on this more than you realize and when they go through the same thing, they’ll understand even more.

Thanks so much, kevinsgirl! That’s a good advice…and yes, it is tempting to keep referring back to it. It was painful to look at it again to quote it to CAF, but I knew it would help in the end to get another reminder that I’m not crazy…and to know if I was doing the right thing or not.

And yeah. I hate bringing drama to work…I avoided it for a couple of years, but this was just the worst of it that I couldn’t hide. (since I asked my bosses–two jobs-- about two weeks ago to be cautious if my family came to my work. I’m just “busy, so email’s best” sort of thing. But at one job, my boss, when my mom came in, told her not to come back to this branch again (of the library). It’s common for younger library workers to have stalkers, and there are some bans/bars for people like it. So it’s not unusual for my family to be warned. They’re going to a different library branch now. So by selectively responding to their correspondence…I will do that. Thanks for the idea.

And I’m sorry you were put in the same position with your siblings. I’m glad it’s working out for you. Same thing happened to my mom when she got engaged/steady with Dad. Her parents cut off her communication with her siblings, but they’re still pretty good friends once they grew up. That really means a lot to me, knowing that I won’t have to miss them for forever

I really do appreciate your guys’ support. It is so difficult…is it crazy that I still love my parents and my oldest brother (who sides with them) even after what happened?

 

[1ke]

No, it is not crazy that you still love them, and want love from them.

Remember, God reveals himself as Father. Our earthly fathers should image God the Father. However, many earthly fathers fall way short on that. God is always your Father, and he loves you without condition. Jesus showed us that. Jesus gave us his own Mother as our mother, too.

So, when you feel sad that your earthly father and mother are not available to you by their own actions and choices, remember you can turn to God-- whom in baptism we now call Abba-- and also to Mary our spiritual mother.

Pray for your parents.

 

[holly_potter]

No, it is not crazy that you still love them, and want love from them.

Remember, God reveals himself as Father. Our earthly fathers should image God the Father. However, many earthly fathers fall way short on that. God is always your Father, and he loves you without condition. Jesus showed us that. Jesus gave us his own Mother as our mother, too.

So, when you feel sad that your earthly father and mother are not available to you by their own actions and choices, remember you can turn to God-- whom in baptism we now call Abba-- and also to Mary our spiritual mother.

Pray for your parents.

I love that God is perfect for this imperfect world thanks for the reminder! Definitely praying for my folks. It’s doubtful they’ll ever come around, but I hope all the same.

 

[nodito]

I am so sorry that you are struggling with your family like this. I agree with 1ke, I think you need to stop trying to explain yourself. Drama like this can make it difficult to think about anything else.

I was going to suggest sending one last e-mail or letter confirming your love for them, but for the life of me I can’t think of anything you could say that would make it better. If it were me, I would probably dedicate myself to praying for them and for my siblings, remaining as civil and possible, and sending them all an invitation to the wedding anyway, maybe with a short note on the invitation itself: “I really hope you’ll be there. Love, Holly.”

I would also urge you to continue sending birthday cards to your parents and siblings (but don’t include money, since that’s a hot topic with your dad and you don’t know if the kids would get it anyway). I would make these cards as warm and sincere as possible, expressing your love for them, without referring at all to the current drama or the reason you aren’t seeing them in person or talking to them on the phone. Even if your siblings never see these cards, they may find out about them someday and realize you didn’t abandon them. Moreover, it’ll demonstrate maturity to your parents and your genuine love for your family.

Good luck.

 

[holly_potter]

I am so sorry that you are struggling with your family like this. I agree with 1ke, I think you need to stop trying to explain yourself. Drama like this can make it difficult to think about anything else.

I was going to suggest sending one last e-mail or letter confirming your love for them, but for the life of me I can’t think of anything you could say that would make it better. If it were me, I would probably dedicate myself to praying for them and for my siblings, remaining as civil and possible, and sending them all an invitation to the wedding anyway, maybe with a short note on the invitation itself: “I really hope you’ll be there. Love, Holly.”

I would also urge you to continue sending birthday cards to your parents and siblings (but don’t include money, since that’s a hot topic with your dad and you don’t know if the kids would get it anyway). I would make these cards as warm and sincere as possible, expressing your love for them, without referring at all to the current drama or the reason you aren’t seeing them in person or talking to them on the phone. Even if your siblings never see these cards, they may find out about them someday and realize you didn’t abandon them. Moreover, it’ll demonstrate maturity to your parents and your genuine love for your family.

Good luck.

Thanks for the good luck, and I definitely will keep praying for them. It would be a good occasion to get into the habit of praying a rosary a day, for them all…I couldn’t think of anything else I could say, and am afraid that, at this rate, they will use such email or letter against me. I did say that a couple of times in my letter, saying how I loved them, to make sure they knew that.

I was considering money in the cards, but you have a good point. I’m not sure they would get it, either, and yeah, money is a hot topic. One of my younger sisters is having a birthday on the 20th. My original plan is to do like what I did with my other sister…take them for a day out with me. But I’ll get a really nice card for her. (I have to say it’s incredibly tempting to figure out what I could include that wouldn’t be offensive to my dad, but I can’t think of anything right now).

I have to say, like I keep saying, thank you so much, CAF people, for all your practical support. I wish I could say how much it’s helping me to stay sane

 

[ChristinaM]

I agree with everyone else here - sadly, it’s clear that you can gain nothing from any further communication with your dad. He will take whatever you say and twist it around so that it becomes an insult to him. He wants you to beg and grovel before him, which is not right at all. It’s quite bizarre that a grown man would hold this kind of childish resentment against his own daughter. Do not give him the opportunity to emotionally manipulate you any more.

Praying for harmony in your family. Talk to St. Joseph and ask him to become your spiritual father. I believe Jesus gave us his earthly parents to help us when ours can be difficult. I know I found great consolation in taking Mary as my spiritual mother when I was having troubles with my mother.