Upon which Rock/rock?

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You know … what I find very interesting is that the other two authors of Mark and Luke didn’t put very much importance on what Jesus said, but rather on Peter’s declaration. Just something to think about … if Jesus was setting the ruler of the church there … then they should have wrote it because it’s very important, but looks like they considered Peter’s declaration important enough to write in in 3/4 Gospels, and Jesus ‘declaration’ on only 1/3.

Just something to think about.
It is important to think about. It would be a mistake to try to evaluate the importance of something in the scriptures by it’s frequency of mention.

This is why it is a mistake to try to extrapolate the faith from the pages of the book. It is to be received from the Apostolic source with eagerness, as the Bereans did, then the scritpures understood in the light of what the Apostles believed and taught.
 
My point. He is the rock. Isn’t He going to build it on the fact that He is God the Rock, the Messiah, the Son of the Living God? Or if He going to build it on Peter the ‘smaller’ rock, the mortal, the sinner?
He was explaining that those who have this same profession of faith are grafted into his own rockyness, and can also become part of His building. There is no separation between Christ and those who are grafted into His foundation. If they separate from Him, they will no longer be part of the Foundation, like Judas.
Also, why didn’t Jesus say ‘upon you’ but He said ‘upon this rock’? This subject is of tremendous importance. Isn’t He supposed to make it clear?
It is of tremendous importance. He made it clear. The Apostles understood exactly what He meant.
 
Why does it say ‘petra’ instead of ‘petros’? Saying petra-petra would be calling Peter a woman, but why not petros-petros?
 
Why does it say ‘petra’ instead of ‘petros’? Saying petra-petra would be calling Peter a woman, but why not petros-petros?
The original was written in Aramaic, and the word is Cephas. Everyone translated Matthews gospel as best he could, until it was translated into Greek.

Why is it so important to cover up the reason Jesus changed Peter’s name?
 
History does not even show us Matthew wrote that Gospel, but we suppose that by tradition.
Did you think that tradition had no historical component? You did not answer my question. Why is it so important to avoid the reason Jesus changed Peter’s name?
 
Why does it say ‘petra’ instead of ‘petros’? Saying petra-petra would be calling Peter a woman, but why not petros-petros?
Using ‘petra’, alone is in the feminine sense. Matthew referred to Peter in the male sense, which is ‘petros’. But, reading scriptures within scriptures, the whole argument is moot when we see Christ originally called Simon, Cephas, which is Aramaic which does not use gender nouns.

I see a lot of excuses of why we cannot accept such a straightforward passage. Ask yourself if you’re being totally honest in seeking these multiple excuses or not. You’re the only one that can answer that, to yourself.
 
Using ‘petra’, alone is in the feminine sense. Matthew referred to Peter in the male sense, which is ‘petros’. But, reading scriptures within scriptures, the whole argument is moot when we see Christ originally called Simon, Cephas, which is Aramaic which does not use gender nouns.

I see a lot of excuses of why we cannot accept such a straightforward passage. Ask yourself if you’re being totally honest in seeking these multiple excuses or not. You’re the only one that can answer that, to yourself.
You haven’t answered my question. Why doesn’t the author use petros-petros but petros-petra?
 
You haven’t answered my question. Why doesn’t the author use petros-petros but petros-petra?
The author did not use it twice, or I’m not understanding what you’re saying.

(IGNT+) καγωG2504 δεG1161 AND I ALSO σοιG4671 TO THEE λεγωG3004 [G5719] SAY, οτιG3754 THAT συG4771 THOU ειG1488 [G5748] ART πετροςG4074 PETER, καιG2532 AND επιG1909 ON ταυτηG3778 τηG3588 THIS πετραG4073 ROCK οικοδομησωG3618 [G5692] I WILL BUILD μουG3450 τηνG3588 MY εκκλησιανG1577 ASSEMBLY, καιG2532 AND πυλαιG4439 GATES αδουG86 ουG3756 OF HADES κατισχυσουσινG2729 [G5692] SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST αυτηςG846 IT.

The author referred to a man as Petros, but used the correct term Petra to show Christ was speaking of the large rock.
 
What does this supposed to mean? Is Matthew no longer a part of the inspired word of God?
Nah. I’m not saying that. I said that we can’t know whether Matthew is the author of that book. He could just as well been other disciple or apostle.
 
You haven’t answered my question. Why doesn’t the author use petros-petros but petros-petra?
Why are you disgarding Christ calling Simon Bar-Jona, Cephas, as recorded by John?
**Joh 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus looking upon him, said: Thou art Simon the son of Jona. Thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter. **
Also, still no comment on my detailed explanation on the location, as well as the announcement? An explanations considering the culture, the times and reading scriptures within scriptures. Isn’t that how you say we should receive an interpretation?
 
Nah. I’m not saying that. I said that we can’t know whether Matthew is the author of that book. He could just as well been other disciple or apostle.
So we should check with the ‘final authority’? 😛
 
The author did not use it twice, or I’m not understanding what you’re saying.

(IGNT+) καγωG2504 δεG1161 AND I ALSO σοιG4671 TO THEE λεγωG3004 [G5719] SAY, οτιG3754 THAT συG4771 THOU ειG1488 [G5748] ART πετροςG4074 PETER, καιG2532 AND επιG1909 ON ταυτηG3778 τηG3588 THIS πετραG4073 ROCK οικοδομησωG3618 [G5692] I WILL BUILD μουG3450 τηνG3588 MY εκκλησιανG1577 ASSEMBLY, καιG2532 AND πυλαιG4439 GATES αδουG86 ουG3756 OF HADES κατισχυσουσινG2729 [G5692] SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST αυτηςG846 IT.

The author referred to a man as Petros, but used the correct term Petra to show Christ was speaking of the large rock.
But why didn’t he use ‘petros’ for the rock on which the Church was built on as well?
 
But why didn’t he use ‘petros’ for the rock on which the Church was built on as well?
Because the author didn’t know that people in our modern time would accept a man called by a woman’s name. Something such as that in the times and culture then, could have resulted in a ‘stoning’. The author, in the Greek texts, used the male sense referring to a man, but used the correct sense in using a large rock for the foundation.

Read John 1:42. Read the many instances that Paul used ‘Cephas’. Those men did not mistake, nor question, what Christ had done.
 
Meekandhumble,

Do you have any idea of the history behind the place Christ chose to announce His Church?

Christ chose Caesarea Philippi, so named by Herod Philip, in honor of the ruling Caesar at the time. Caesarea Philippi’s history, prior to being renamed, tells us this was Panion, city of the great pagan god, Pan, who pagans believed ruled the world.

Pan was the god of shepherds and flocks. His essence was sexual and leaned towards depravity; it represented the power of evil to Christians. The transfiguration took place on the mountain above the spot, that still exists to this day, a site honoring Pan. There is an altar to Pan just below the city, hidden in the cliffs.

Why did Christ chose such place, so antithetical to the Kingdom of God? Because, through the Church, Christ was establishing is the antithesis to everything which kept men from the Kingdom; even the gates of hell (a site named and also located in a niche in the mountain, that some called the ‘abyss’) shall not prevail against it.
So? It is a very good place to declare that He will build His church on the fact that He is the Messiah the Son of the Living God.
A Kingdom needs a King - King of kings. When the King, established by God through David, is absent, the Kingdom cannot be left unattended. A keeper of the keys, prime minister or vicar, is needed. The keeper of the keys is in full authority over the Kingdom. He can make law or repeal it. He makes the decisions the King would make when He is not present, and he is only answerable to the King.
And the Scriptures tell us that the Holy Spirit is the substitute (or vicar) of Christ on the Earth while He is gone. You’re not going to tell me that the Pope is the incarnation of the Holy Spirit, are you? That would be going too far.
 
So? It is a very good place to declare that He will build His church on the fact that He is the Messiah the Son of the Living God.

And the Scriptures tell us that the Holy Spirit is the substitute (or vicar) of Christ on the Earth while He is gone. You’re not going to tell me that the Pope is the incarnation of the Holy Spirit, are you? That would be going too far.
The King needs a ‘physical’ prime minister in his ‘physical’ absence. You are deliberately twisting my words to make it sound as if I said something I did not. It appears you’ve decided to stop being honest in this discussion. I’m sorry if the truth is too much for you to handle. Christ gave the keys to Peter. He promised Peter and the other Apostles He would guide them and be with them, through the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth.

Read John 14 through 18, and tell me the audience that Christ is addressing when He spoke of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, would be with and guide. Don’t you think who He spoke too is reading in context? He was only speaking the ‘offices’ He chose and appointed.

Please provide the passage you’re referring to?
 
The King needs a ‘physical’ prime minister in his ‘physical’ absence. You are deliberately twisting my words to make it sound as if I said something I did not. It appears you’ve decided to stop being honest in this discussion. I’m sorry if the truth is too much for you to handle. Christ gave the keys to Peter. He promised Peter and the other Apostles He would guide them and be with them, through the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth.
No He doesn’t.

Study the Old Testament and you’ll see that God was very upset when they wanted a king. Because God was their King until then … and He was unseen. God wasn’t pleased at all with the Jews’ request.

And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. ~1 Samuel 8:7

Until then they had judges and god as their king. Now they wanted someone to represent them and to be the boss.

God doesn’t need a physical prime minister. He sent the Holy Spirit as a substitute of His Son on earth.
Read John 14 through 18, and tell me the audience that Christ is addressing when He spoke of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, would be with and guide. Don’t you think who He spoke too is reading in context? He was only speaking the ‘offices’ He chose and appointed.

Please provide the passage you’re referring to?
God promised the Holy Spirit to all believers.
 
No He doesn’t.

Study the Old Testament and you’ll see that God was very upset when they wanted a king. Because God was their King until then … and He was unseen. God wasn’t pleased at all with the Jews’ request.

And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. ~1 Samuel 8:7

Until then they had judges and god as their king. Now they wanted someone to represent them and to be the boss.

God doesn’t need a physical prime minister. He sent the Holy Spirit as a substitute of His Son on earth.
Then why, much longer after Samuel was written, did Isaiah write:
**Isa 22:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliacim the son of Helcias,
Isa 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and will strengthen him with thy girdle, and will give thy power into his hand: and he shall be as a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Juda.
Isa 22:22 And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open. **
Just as Peter referred to Psalms when speaking of the need to ‘fulfill scriptures’ and fill the office of Judas, the Apostles understood Christ giving the keys to Peter, His prime minister, in His earthly absence. They understood Peter having the authority to bind and loose, or open and shut.
God promised the Holy Spirit to all believers.
Do you consider this fair, or an honest discussion? Why not provide the scriptures you’re referring to, so that we can discuss the proper interpretation together? Am I to just assume you are correct without you even providing the passage you’re relying on?
 
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