Upset about ex-family friend now gay

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MarilynIN

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We were at the family reunion over the weekend. I married into a big Irish Catholic family, so it’s a three-day event. One of the close family friends has been “adopted”. She is now divorced. At one time, she and her ex-husband were their next-door neighbors for years and they attended the same parish as my in-laws, so they all became very close and my in-laws considered them to be another son and daughter and grandkids.

About 5 years ago, the couple (who have 2 children) divorced. All I knew at the time was there had been one trial separation about 2 years earlier, then they got back together Two years later, they decided to part ways for good. All my husband and I heard second-hand was rather foggy. We heard one version that the husband had been fooling around, but then the ex-wive’s official version was that it was due to other issues and gross incompatiblity and the husband wanted out. He then moved four states away.

The divorced woman never remarried and has remained faithful to the Church and has raised the two children to be good Catholics, to her credit. Yet there has always seemed to be an inordinate amount of resentment among all the family members: kids and mother alike. I always thought it was strange that there was so much strong emotion on the children’s part held against their father. Kids of divorced parents, unless the home situation has been horribly abusive or sick, which this situation didn’t seem to be, usually still want to have visitation rights with their non-custodial parents. These kids wanted nothing to do with their father whatsoever. When their family was together, they were very active in the Church and the children and the ex-wife deny vehemently that there ever was any verbal or physical abuse. The children are respectful and also give no indication that they every experienced any form of abuse and treat members of the opposite sex with good manners and respect, so I know that that was never an issue. It just plain troubled me.

Last night when we returned home from the weekend gathering, my husband confided in me that the ex-wife had told him that the reason that the divorce took place was because her husband had come out of the closet, taken a male lover, and decided to call it quits. I don’t know if the rest of the family knows it or not, or only a few select members. I also don’t know if she knew that he was gay the first time they separated or not. But if I do recall, the kids seemed eager to continue to see their father during the first separation, so I do not believe the husband had come forth to announce he was gay during that first time.

What really, really bothers me is that from all appearances, it was a very devout Catholic, very role-model family when they were together. We were all saddened when we heard about the divorce. Now that I know a bit more, it makes more sense why this “perfect” Catholic family was torn apart and why their children have this tremendous negativity towards their father.

What really, really bothers me most is why on Earth did this man marry this woman to begin with? I can’t believe that someone would be that selfish or irresponsible to think that by marrying someone they would be able to sustain a healthy, normal and heterosexual relationship with a woman for long. I can’t believe he didn’t have some inkling that he was attracted to men before he married. Maybe I am being naive, but save for those wonderful and beautiful children, a lot of heartache and grief could have spared that wonderful woman and her family and she could have been in a true Catholic marriage with a good, Catholic man if the two of them had never met. Now as a good practicing Catholic, she isn’t able to remarry if she wanted to, not without a long and drawn out annulment process. And there’s no guarantees one way or another that an annulment would be a sure-bet.
 
Yes I agree it is very sad when children suffer due to selfish parents who don’t honor their vows. I don’t know that it matter much that the Dad took on a male lover. The point is, he put his own desires above God, above his wife, above his children - I think it would have been just as painful it he had left her for a woman? Maybe he knew he was gay & hoped those feelings would go away? I don’t know…

At any rate, it sounds as if the children are very fortunate to have a Mother who raised them right in the Faith despite the heartache she had to bear. What a strong & faithful woman and a great example to her children. May she be blessed.

Regarding the annulment - if she was interested in remarrying, the process really isn’t all that bad. It’s a bit of paperwork but my husband’s was finished in about 8 months - start to finish.

And finally, the ex-husband deserves our prayers. He has seperated himself from his family and from God. He can’t be truly happy. How sad. 😦

CM
 
I have known of similar situations. It is heartbreaking and so painful to the family. The father’s behavior is both selfish and sinful. I think the wife in the case you describe, however, probably would have a strong case for annulment if, as was very likely the case, he had been struggling with homosexual tendencies before the marriage. Very sad story.
 
I hear what you are saying. But, I am very angry against him for getting married in the first place. I can’t believe that he didn’t know he was gay. Most people know it deep down, even if they vehemently try to deny it. He should have worked out this issue before he involved others. I don’t believe someone who is gay can change themselves merely by taking on a conventional relationship and marriage with the opposite sex. He didn’t say he was bisexual, he said he was gay. The thing that really bothers me, and perhaps it’s the devil putting evil things in my mind, but I can’t help but wonder if he married merely to use the spouse to have children, stuck with it out of guilt for a while, then it started to wear on him and he crumbled. It’s going to be hard, but I will pray for him as well.
 
Some people with same sex attraction marry because they think they have beat the thing, and because, especially in previous generations, it was the thing they were expected to do. While some may have done it with selfish intention, I think many thought they could manage it, and most truly love their spouse and children.

We all have sinful tendencies, and we do our best to keep them controlled. But some do rear their ugly heads and damage those we love the best, addictions of all manner come to mind.

Unfortunately we cannont predict whether or not our struggles will be successful, or if we will give in and cause hurt to many, but still we must go on.

I cannot know the intent of this man you speak of, but perhaps he went in with the best intention, as many of us do, and failed both himself and his wife and children. Pray for him, and others in similar situations, be they sexual, or other, that we may be strong and make the best choices.

cheddar
 
Instead of being angry, maybe applaud the man as trying to manage his sexuality… maybe he thought he could at the time… just like many priests think they could and some do.
 
My thinking is he should have managed his sexuality well before he decided to involve an innocent woman in his quest to be conventional. He could have also managed it by remaining celebate.
 
Highly judgemental on your part and self righteous as well to presuppose that at the time he didnt in his own mind and NOT YOURS have it perfectly under control… and your opinoin seems to suggest that all gays should remain celebate and that they cant control their inclinations whatsoever… this flies in the face of those gays who have successfully wed women. It also presupposes that a hetero who led a very hedonistic life and then married should never have married if he ends up cheating cause he obviously didnt get all his hedonsitic ways out of his system.

Now being that this man failed, NOW he should remain celebate and not think about getting married again.
 
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ShroudMan:
Highly judgemental on your part and self righteous as well to presuppose that at the time he didnt in his own mind and NOT YOURS have it perfectly under control… and your opinoin seems to suggest that all gays should remain celebate and that they cant control their inclinations whatsoever… this flies in the face of those gays who have successfully wed women. It also presupposes that a hetero who led a very hedonistic life and then married should never have married if he ends up cheating cause he obviously didnt get all his hedonsitic ways out of his system.

Now being that this man failed, NOW he should remain celebate and not think about getting married again.
  1. This is a Catholic forum. Church teaching is indeed that homosexuals should remain celibate. So it is not “highly judgmental” nor “self-righteous” for a Catholic to view homosexual behavior (especially for a married man) is gravely sinful.
  2. And your “presupposition” about “hedonistic heteros” is neither Catholic nor rational.
  3. What is your agenda? Marilyn has every right to be shocked and sad for the family members who are rightly distraught over this man’s sinful behavior. Private sin has public consequences.
 
Highly judgemental on your part and self righteous as well to presuppose that at the time he didnt in his own mind and NOT YOURS have it perfectly under control.
My judgement of him? I don’t judge him. I am angry with him and upset. That he didn’t ultimately maintain control of the situation and remain faithful is the rub . It doesn’t matter at this point whether or not he had a fling with another man or with another woman. He broke the marriage vows and the trust. He’s the one who turned his back from his marriage, not once but twice in this relationship. He lost control over his desires and decided to walk away from his marriage to pursue another relationship that is also sexual. That’s a fact and doesn’t mean I read his mind. The actions speak for themselves. Doesn’t mean I’ve judged him so much as I am upset about all this. And believe it or not, I have been praying for him. But, I know you don’t believe THAT!
and your opinoin seems to suggest that all gays should remain celebate and that they cant control their inclinations whatsoever…

this flies in the face of those gays who have successfully wed women.
Where did I say that? You presume, or rather assume that is what I wrote. So, why does it bother you that I am hurt and angered over this, from one who was a close family friend? The only part that you interpreted of what I’ve said correctly is that gays should remain celebate as a spiritual discipline if they cannot successfully maintain a married heterosexual relationship. It’s obvious he isn’t one of the successful ones as far as marriage is concerned.
It also presupposes that a hetero who led a very hedonistic life and then married should never have married if he ends up cheating cause he obviously didnt get all his hedonsitic ways out of his system.
That’s what you choose to read in this. Illogical and leap to an assumption on your part, not mine.
Now being that this man failed, NOW he should remain celebate and not think about getting married again.
That goes without saying, but it isn’t happening. He’s living with another man.

PS: By the way, please don’t read more into what I write than what I do. I don’t for you, so please extend the same courtesy in return.
 
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MarilynIN:
The divorced woman never remarried and has remained faithful to the Church and has raised the two children to be good Catholics, to her credit. Yet there has always seemed to be an inordinate amount of resentment among all the family members: kids and mother alike. I always thought it was strange that there was so much strong emotion on the children’s part held against their father. Kids of divorced parents, unless the home situation has been horribly abusive or sick, which this situation didn’t seem to be, usually still want to have visitation rights with their non-custodial parents. These kids wanted nothing to do with their father whatsoever. When their family was together, they were very active in the Church and the children and the ex-wife deny vehemently that there ever was any verbal or physical abuse. The children are respectful and also give no indication that they every experienced any form of abuse and treat members of the opposite sex with good manners and respect, so I know that that was never an issue. It just plain troubled me.

Last night when we returned home from the weekend gathering, my husband confided in me that the ex-wife had told him that the reason that the divorce took place was because her husband had come out of the closet, taken a male lover, and decided to call it quits. I don’t know if the rest of the family knows it or not, or only a few select members. I also don’t know if she knew that he was gay the first time they separated or not. But if I do recall, the kids seemed eager to continue to see their father during the first separation, so I do not believe the husband had come forth to announce he was gay during that first time.

What really, really bothers me is that from all appearances, it was a very devout Catholic, very role-model family when they were together. We were all saddened when we heard about the divorce. Now that I know a bit more, it makes more sense why this “perfect” Catholic family was torn apart and why their children have this tremendous negativity towards their father.

What really, really bothers me most is why on Earth did this man marry this woman to begin with? I can’t believe that someone would be that selfish or irresponsible to think that by marrying someone they would be able to sustain a healthy, normal and heterosexual relationship with a woman for long. I can’t believe he didn’t have some inkling that he was attracted to men before he married. Maybe I am being naive, but save for those wonderful and beautiful children, a lot of heartache and grief could have spared that wonderful woman and her family and she could have been in a true Catholic marriage with a good, Catholic man if the two of them had never met. Now as a good practicing Catholic, she isn’t able to remarry if she wanted to, not without a long and drawn out annulment process. And there’s no guarantees one way or another that an annulment would be a sure-bet.
I empathize and agree with you wholeheartedly, and I don’t feel you are being judgemental. Pray for this man’s conversion and that he find someone on his path who can steer him clear of the path he’s chosen.

I think that this is a very painful issue. I can’t judge this man’s homosexuality or how much he did or didn’t know about it, or whether he married legitimately or as a means of escaping his sexuality. What I do know however is that he has a choice to make. He can either embrace the radical homosexual and societal opinion that the only way for a homosexual person to be truly happy and self-fulfilled is to be “out and about and proud of it” (no matter whose lives he hurts) OR he can be a REAL man and assume his reponsibilities as a father.

Yes it’s a terrible situation, but he is a parent now and there are decisions to be made. Since it sounds like this is more or less recent, it sounds like he is still in time to be a good father to his children, and at least live on brother/sister terms with his wife - whose life he may or may not have consciously ruined either knowingly or unknowingly. He can be selfish and live life just for himself, or he can be (God fobid!) a self-sacrificing parent and dedicate himself entirely to the well-being of his family. Has pop-culture and psychology completely done away with ALL notions of heroic virtue and self-sacrifice?
 
No, I don’t assume that all gay men or women can’t sustain a real love bond with someone of the opposite sex in marriage. If that is what I wrote to begin with, I don’t mean to give the impression that this is a blanket statement for all homosexual people who do get married with someone of the opposite sex and successfully manage a faithful marriage.

I spoke again with my husband in the past few days and he told me that the ex-wife also said that he knew before he married that he was gay; he never told her. He felt he could make the marriage work. So, he was not totally honest with her to begin with.

He may have thought that he could maintain this for the long haul, but it didn’t turn out that way. I know that the risk of adultery is a fact in any marriage. But, it seems that this could be more of a risk of danger in this type of relationship, more so than with two heterosexuals marrying. Especially if the gay person didn’t level with the other person at the get-go. In this situation, that would have been the right thing to do, to let her know up-front about his sexual inclinations so she would have known and could have opted out before all this mess occured.
 
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MarilynIN:
No, I don’t assume that all gay men or women can’t sustain a real love bond with someone of the opposite sex in marriage. If that is what I wrote to begin with, I don’t mean to give the impression that this is a blanket statement for all homosexual people who do get married with someone of the opposite sex and successfully manage a faithful marriage.

I spoke again with my husband in the past few days and he told me that the ex-wife also said that he knew before he married that he was gay; he never told her. He felt he could make the marriage work. So, he was not totally honest with her to begin with.

He may have thought that he could maintain this for the long haul, but it didn’t turn out that way. I know that the risk of adultery is a fact in any marriage. But, it seems that this could be more of a risk of danger in this type of relationship, more so than with two heterosexuals marrying. Especially if the gay person didn’t level with the other person at the get-go. In this situation, that would have been the right thing to do, to let her know up-front about his sexual inclinations so she would have known and could have opted out before all this mess occured.
Agreed. If he knew and kept that from her, then I feel that that is one heck of an argument for an annulment, since this marriage was an “attempt” from the get go, and assuming that had she known the truth, she may not have proceeded with it.
 
Please point me to church teaching that says homosexuals who have their inclinations under control cannot get married to women?

They are only called to celibacy by the church if they remain sexually attracted to men…

Please understand Church teaching
 
Please point me to church teaching that says homosexuals who have their inclinations under control cannot get married to women?
My quote:
No, I** don’t assume that all gay men or women can’t sustain a real love bond with someone of the opposite sex in marriage**. If that is what I wrote to begin with, I don’t mean to give the impression that this is a blanket statement for all homosexual people who do get married with someone of the opposite sex and successfully manage a faithful marriage.
Where did you get the implication that I DON’T understand? You don’t need to be condescending, either, which is what I feel is conveyed to me by way you’ve written this response. I would also suggest that you read more thoroughly instead of skimming and/or putting your own spin on my words and being judgemental of what I’ve said to suit your own purposes, out of context.

When I wrote my initial message, I was saying that I was struggling with hurt and anger. Your responses, to me, are meant to be hurtful and to provoke. I want to still this hurt and anger. All you have chosen to do so far is to edit for your own purposes without really reading what I am saying and it seems to be your purpose to be hurtful. I will pray for you as well.
 
Marilyn even if he was attracted to men, having as you said engaged an innocent woman into the supposed farce of his life, he should have considered therapy. I suspect he did not and simply gave into his purient desires. If that is the case, it’s even more outrageous.

This same story could have been written by my cousin. He married a very very nice woman, his childhood sweetheart. They had two boys although sadly one was killed in an accident (hit on his bike). I often wonder if this was a catalyst because after that suddenly we heard they were divorcing. He booted his wife and son out and moved in a young twinkie boy who was half his age. Twinkie moved on, probably after realizing my cousin wasn’t the moneybags he pretended to be. His wife is a saint and tries to help maintain the relationship with the boy although how would you like to have a homosexual father as a teenage boy? I guess the thing that most disturbed me was his total lack of consideration for his wife and child. He did not try to change, just announced one day “I’m gay” and that was that. Talk about thinking with the wrong head.

FWIW she did NOT know he was a homosexual before or during the marriage. He had NO affectation either. I have excellent gaydar and would never have suspected. I think frankly there was something more going on with respect to his mental health than just SSA.

Lisa N
 
Marlynn…

Please excuse that post for it wasnt directed at you on that particular subject…it was aimed at another who questioned me if I had an agenda and didnt know Church teaching.
 
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
 
And thru psychotherapy and counseling its been proven that homosexuals can and have wed women and raised families without becoming active in gay life again. Are they still tempted for men? Who knows? Temptation aint a sin if not acted on so I dont care.
 
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ShroudMan:
And thru psychotherapy and counseling its been proven that homosexuals can and have wed women and raised families without becoming active in gay life again. Are they still tempted for men? Who knows? Temptation aint a sin if not acted on so I dont care.
I don’t know what Catholic teaching is regarding gay men marrying women. But it seems to me that this is a very risky choice about which one’s future spouse should be aware before entering marriage. In the specific case raised by this thread’s original poster, the gay man struggled with same sex attraction before marriage and apparently entered marriage without sharing his situation with his spouse. I suspect that such situations would be grounds for an eventual annulment. But nothing can erase the heartache felt by the spouse, children, and other family members should such an experiment fail in the way described by the original post.
 
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