Upset about obligation to vote - moral and emotional quandary

[3DOCTORS]

I’m struggling with this quandry as well. The way I see it, both parties are involved in and promote as policy things that are evil, grave evil too. And I simply don’t want to be a part of it. Before I became Catholic, and before I was even religious at all, I was a member of the Democratic party and stood behind its platform although I didn’t agree with all of it. When I became Catholic I put it behind me and kissed it all away.

I don’t see how anyone can be Catholic and vote in pro-choice, “marriage equality” candidates (which Democrats usually are). However, I also don’t see how someone can be Catholic and support the Republican Party and its “platform” of Isaiah 2:24-defying pre-emptive war corporatism (the “military industrial complex”), pro-“firing-squad”-like death penalty executions (which the Catechism says should be “practically non-existent”… CCC 2267), and a James 5:4-defying social policy that would deny just wages to workers who, as James wrote “have plowed your fields” and whose “cries have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.” Also, taking access to healthcare from the sick as a social policy platform (effectively ensuring the demise and suffering human beings who are kept from accessing the care they need because of it), to me seems just as much a part of the “culture of death” as the grave evil of abortion. They are both grave evils because they directly cause the deaths of millions.

So in short, I can not in good conscious support either party, because both parties have built into their platforms grave evils, not to mention grave injustices, and in my mind, to vote for either makes one complicit in enabling those evils. Third parties don’t offer much difference, usually being even more extremist than the mainline political parties.

This leaves me with basically one option: not to vote.

If however there is some “obligation” imposed by the Church to vote, then I’m not sure what to do either. As a Catholic, I can’t support either party’s platform.

Thank you for at least helping me feel I’m not alone. I am also aware that some candidates cozy up to us pro-life people before the election and then push that issue to the back burner once they’re in office. I feel like right now the system as it stands manipulates practically everybody. I’m extremely fed up. There are politicians who seem to fit the stereotype of one who feels that if you’re poor, too bad for you, it’s probably that you’re lazy. And that if they create jobs by the numbers rather than look at what those jobs are like to hold or to try to live on, and boast about it. On the other side there are those who feel that if you call foul about the HHS mandate or the push to legalize same-sex marriage, you are a heartless person who doesn’t want people to get good healthcare or be happy (when it’s their eternal happiness you care about). It all disgusts me.

 

[Della]

Thank you for at least helping me feel I’m not alone. I am also aware that some candidates cozy up to us pro-life people before the election and then push that issue to the back burner once they’re in office. I feel like right now the system as it stands manipulates practically everybody. I’m extremely fed up. There are politicians who seem to fit the stereotype of one who feels that if you’re poor, too bad for you, it’s probably that you’re lazy. And that if they create jobs by the numbers rather than look at what those jobs are like to hold or to try to live on, and boast about it. On the other side there are those who feel that if you call foul about the HHS mandate or the push to legalize same-sex marriage, you are a heartless person who doesn’t want people to get good healthcare or be happy (when it’s their eternal happiness you care about). It all disgusts me.

I hate to repeat myself, but it’s simply true that no human government is going to do what we’d like because it is manned by fallible human beings just like ourselves. As C. S. Lewis once wrote, laws are medicine not food. They are there to protect us from one another not to enrich our hearts, minds and souls–something they cannot do.

We cannot vote for people we know will promote anti-life agendas. Sure some Republicans say they will do something about pro-life issues and then seem to get nothing done, but at least they aren’t pushing anti-life agendas, either. It’s a matter in that case of holding the fort rather than conquering the enemy, to use a military analogy. Democrats cozy up to the poor and immigrants to get votes, too. They’re not saints, either. Nor has it been shown that government programs actually do much good–people are living in generational poverty due to many such programs, still the Democrats boast that they are doing something about it. I’m not saying vote Republican. I’m saying don’t take either side’s word for it–don’t let the left tickle your ears with rhetoric all the while they are pushing abortion, euthanasia, and gay marriage on us.

Each of us votes alone in that booth. It’s no one else’s business how we vote unless we want to share that information. Pray about it. Talk to your priest about it. As much as helping the poor is good it’s not the major issue at our point in history. We will always have the poor with us. If we wish to help them we need to give our time, talent and money where it will do the most good. Poverty has only risen in America since the Johnson administration, not lessened, although thousands of bureaucrats are paid to deal with it, with very limited positive results.

 

[MJJean]

Assuming for a moment that one candidate has a track record of voting for funding of abortion, expansion of abortion, legalization of abortion, opposing legislation limiting abortion, and the other candidate does not, I wonder if you could describe the portfolio of “other issues, especially economic and healthcare concerns” that you would consider sufficient to justify voting for her or him?

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If you can’t see that everything is connected (poverty, lack of healthcare, lack of education, abortion) then you’re voting with tunnel vision.To my way of thinking, tunnel vision voting (voting based solely on one issue) makes one part of the problem.

We aren’t going to roll back Roe vs Wade if even a small majority support abortion. Which means we need more voters on our side. One of the reasons voters vote for pro-choice candidates is misplaced compassion. They think that abortion is a reasonable option due to other social issues. If those social issues were greatly diminished or even eliminated on our society I think many more people would find abortion less palatable.

 

[Della]

If you can’t see that everything is connected (poverty, lack of healthcare, lack of education, abortion) then you’re voting with tunnel vision.To my way of thinking, tunnel vision voting (voting based solely on one issue) makes one part of the problem.

We aren’t going to roll back Roe vs Wade if even a small majority support abortion. Which means we need more voters on our side. One of the reasons voters vote for pro-choice candidates is misplaced compassion. They think that abortion is a reasonable option due to other social issues. If those social issues were greatly diminished or even eliminated on our society I think many more people would find abortion less palatable.

I believe abortion is a morality issue–one that our current government does nothing to combat. Our society is flush with sexual promiscuity, which no one is willing to connect to poverty except us lonely Christian voices. The whole “culture” is against people being responsible for their own actions, especially letting men of the hook for the children they engender. If government encouraged people to be sexually responsible it would have no need to fund abortion. That seems to be asking too much these days–but it can turn around. It’s up to us to make it happen through our votes, yes, but more importantly in how we live our lives before the world and through prayer.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Maybe it is a lose-lose proposition on moral grounds to vote for either candidate. Nevertheless, one of the two candidates is going to get elected and the welfare of the country will be in their hands. You might as well vote for one or the other. If you can’t decide which one will do the most good, then vote for the one who will do the least harm.

Stop looking for the *perfect *candidate; just vote for the *best *candidate.

My :twocents:

Every election it gets harder to decide which one that is . . . I’ve also recently been disgusted, as a person on disability for mental issues who tried to fit into the American workforce for 3 decades, by the attitudes of some conservatives who still naively believe that if you’re poor it’s your own fault - and who say so, in not-at-all charitable terms. I would not be surprised at all to learn that these same people supported the outsourcing of jobs overseas so that corporations could show profits to their shareholders whilst cutting jobs as much as they possibly could, and making whoever they didn’t cut have to do the work of three people even if it meant sacrificing health and family. The grave has been dug.

And I’m extremely pro-life, so if it comes down to it I may have to vote for a pro-life candidate just so I don’t feel like I voted for somebody worse . . . but there will be no sense that I really did anything aside from fulfilling obligation. :nope: And even then I’ll wonder if what I did really had any benefit in the world. I can no longer feel the sense of satisfaction with it that I used to in the past. I’ve seen too much. The marriage thing - it seems like that battle has already been lost, but I hope I’m wrong about that. It seems that courts are deciding that more than legislators or executive elected officials.

Ugh. Just ugh.

 

[Mark86]

And I’m extremely pro-life, so if it comes down to it I may have to vote for a pro-life candidate just so I don’t feel like I voted for somebody worse . . . but there will be no sense that I really did anything aside from fulfilling obligation. :nope: And even then I’ll wonder if what I did really had any benefit in the world. I can no longer feel the sense of satisfaction with it that I used to in the past.

I know I kind of bumped your thread back up with my initial post but what you articulate here is exactly the reason I did so. I can’t express this feeling any better than you just did here. I think the same goes for a lot of things. It’s probably a good thing in the end, to feel like this. It’s better than not feeling anything.

 

[3DOCTORS]

I know I kind of bumped your thread back up with my initial post but what you articulate here is exactly the reason I did so. I can’t express this feeling any better than you just did here. I think the same goes for a lot of things. It’s probably a good thing in the end, to feel like this. It’s better than not feeling anything.

I had to share a little “brainstorm” I had since my last post - maybe it’s the Holy Spirit? :idea: I hope so. Here it is - if I end up doing the usual pro-life-default vote but feeling crummy about it, I will make a donation to some charity that really works to help poor people. Maybe more than one charity. One that defends marriage, for instance. Sort of my way of making “atonement” for a bad situation. Even if I didn’t create said bad situation, it would make me feel better.

 

[Della]

I had to share a little “brainstorm” I had since my last post - maybe it’s the Holy Spirit? :idea: I hope so. Here it is - if I end up doing the usual pro-life-default vote but feeling crummy about it, I will make a donation to some charity that really works to help poor people. Maybe more than one charity. One that defends marriage, for instance. Sort of my way of making “atonement” for a bad situation. Even if I didn’t create said bad situation, it would make me feel better.

This is fine, but it’s not true that those who don’t support government programs (where is it in civil or Church law that we must do so?) then we are opposing the poor and oppressed.

I don’t vote for candidates while holding my nose, as so many claim. Firstly, because I don’t buy into the left’s propaganda that only they have the right solutions to poverty and other social issues.

Secondly, because I don’t expect any candidate to be perfect, since that’s an impossibility.

And thirdly, I never feel that voting pro-life instead of for left wing candidates is neglecting the poor and oppressed–because it’s no such thing.

The left has done an extremely good job of convincing the nation that people on the right are heartless minions of big business. What they fail to mention is that many on the left are minions to big government and have a vested interest in keeping their jobs/positions/influence.

Let’s be realistic about this thing and see what is really going on, not just what the left-leaning mainstream media want us to see.

 

[3DOCTORS]

This is fine, but it’s not true that those who don’t support government programs (where is it in civil or Church law that we must do so?) then we are opposing the poor and oppressed.

I don’t vote for candidates while holding my nose, as so many claim. Firstly, because I don’t buy into the left’s propaganda that only they have the right solutions to poverty and other social issues.

Secondly, because I don’t expect any candidate to be perfect, since that’s an impossibility.

And thirdly, I never feel that voting pro-life instead of for left wing candidates is neglecting the poor and oppressed–because it’s no such thing.

The left has done an extremely good job of convincing the nation that people on the right are heartless minions of big business. What they fail to mention is that many on the left are minions to big government and have a vested interest in keeping their jobs/positions/influence.

Let’s be realistic about this thing and see what is really going on, not just what the left-leaning mainstream media want us to see.

At this point, how shall I say this . . . I’m not swayed by either side’s propaganda either extolling their own supposed virtues or condemning the other party’s flaws. I have said over and over again that I think with the mind of the Church first, and any political ideology I would even consider supporting must pass through that filter as the first step.

I’ve also said that I believe the American 2-party system as it stands (meaning the portion of its history that I’ve been witness to since I was old enough to begin to learn about it) is weirdly configured, to put it mildly. It has never made sense to me. If you are not troubled in your conscience by your party’s platform or track record, though, I’m not going to presume to tell you you should be.

If I had my druthers, I would take things issue by issue. I am by nature a “big picture” person in most things, but when it comes to politics, I guess I switch to the opposite of my usual modus operandi. I’m a “cafeteria Independent,” I suppose! And yes, an idealist and one who thinks outside the boxes. So there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance for me in trying to pick one or another of the two self-contradictory red or blue options off the standard menu. And my own experiences plus the experiences of others I’ve observed suffering have made me feel like a traitor in considering voting for a party I once did lean a little toward, but these days not so much. Feeling like a traitor is not a happy feeling. It tears my heart up inside.

I really don’t know what else to say.

 

[Della]

At this point, how shall I say this . . . I’m not swayed by either side’s propaganda either extolling their own supposed virtues or condemning the other party’s flaws. I have said over and over again that I think with the mind of the Church first, and any political ideology I would even consider supporting must pass through that filter as the first step.

I’ve also said that I believe the American 2-party system as it stands (meaning the portion of its history that I’ve been witness to since I was old enough to begin to learn about it) is weirdly configured, to put it mildly. It has never made sense to me. If you are not troubled in your conscience by your party’s platform or track record, though, I’m not going to presume to tell you you should be.

Perhaps unfortunately, the two party system is what we seem to be stuck with for the present. It’s hard for 3rd party candidates to get noticed because of the high cost of campaigning. And oftentimes they are painted, rightly or wrongly, as being on the fringe.

The only reason I’m not bother by my party’s platform/track record is because I too support those things in it that come closest to Church teaching but don’t expect that it will be 100% in line with Church teachings because that would be unrealistic. It’s not because I think my party is always right about everything. But the other party’s platform/track record is so far off the mark I couldn’t vote for one of their candidates and sleep at night.

If I had my druthers, I would take things issue by issue. I am by nature a “big picture” person in most things, but when it comes to politics, I guess I switch to the opposite of my usual modus operandi. I’m a “cafeteria Independent,” I suppose! And yes, an idealist and one who thinks outside the boxes. So there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance for me in trying to pick one or another of the two self-contradictory red or blue options off the standard menu. And my own experiences plus the experiences of others I’ve observed suffering have made me feel like a traitor in considering voting for a party I once did lean a little toward, but these days not so much. Feeling like a traitor is not a happy feeling. It tears my heart up inside.

I really don’t know what else to say.

All our sufferings have an answer and most of them cannot be fulfill by government programs. Indeed, such programs often make things worse for people, such as creating generational poverty, or are too intrusive. At one time there were church programs to help people but then the government stepped in, making it hard for churches to do anything practical, giving people the impression that the churches don’t need to be involved in helping people since we pay taxes for that kind of thing–as if bureaucrats should be entrusted with people’s care. We got into this situation gradually, and it will take time to free ourselves of government dependency and for people of faith to be able to do works of corporate mercy once again without the government dictating what churches can and cannot do.

 

[Matilda_Bennett]

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