Upset about something, but what?

[AWall]

Hi there. I wasn’t going to post anything, I was going to try to work this out by myself, but I’m finding I can’t. Last weekend I was invited to attend a music workshop as I participate in the choir. The workshop was about music during the “communion rite”. During the second 1/2 of the workshop we were asked to participate in a “mock” communion rite. The goal was to give “new liturgical ideas” to take back and implement in our parishes. They said the hosts and wine were unconsecrated so I could participate as I am still in RCIA. The presenter of the workshop pretended to be a priest for the mock rite, complete with the prayers and breaking the bread, etc.

By the time he was done, I was in tears. And I’m not sure why. I felt horrible. It was so weird. He had music going the entire time, to distraction. He had us process complete with crucifix from back to front to receive. He wanted music going continuously to “keep the momentum going”, and to “draw people out of themselves.” He was even poo-pooing kneeling, which you couldn’t do anyway at that church b/c there were no kneeers! He said a lot of other stuff that really bothered me. I know it was “fake”. But something about it was horrible (for me) and I don’t know what it was. When it was over, everyone was using words like “unitive”, “communal”, “needful”, etc. Everyone was so excited about it. There was so much emphasis on “community” and “us”. Too much.

I’m sure I’m not making any sense and I’ll probably be blasted for being upset about it. I’m sure someone will say “what’s the big deal?” I don’t know! But I didn’t even want to go to church the next day. It was a struggle to read my bible last night.

Part of it was that it was so different than what I’m used to with communion. I had been attending an Episcopal church for a while thinking I could be “catholic without a pope”. (NOT!) There were altar rails and we knelt to receive. There was time to kneel after receving and pray. Very reverent. I’m not starting an argument about altar rails vs. none. Change is always hard and I am willing to change. I’ll stand if I really receive Jesus even if I feel like I should be prostrating. Maybe it was a bad time to go through a “practice” in that atmosphere. Part of it was that I was offended at what he was saying. Like the people speak and Rome does. Part of it is I’m scared that what we thought was Catholic might have been an illusion. And we did not make the decision to become Catholic lightly. My husband has been disowned by his family and I have lost friends. After our experience with the Mormon church we are hypersensitive to false teaching. And if , and I mean *if (because I don’t know!) *what he was teaching was not true, why is he allowed to???

I don’t know and I’m sorry to babble on. I don’t even know if this is the right forum for this, but since it’s about communion… I think I’ll talk to our parish priest about this too…

Thanks for reading…

Andrea

 

[mgy100]

I’m sorry this would upset me too. I grew up to a certain part of my life as a Latin Catholic. I was always taught that you can’t “play out” the liturgy of the Eucharist. The Latin church has changed so much since I was even a kid. I pray you’ll be alright. At most he could have not had the bread and wine and not have recited the communion prayers. Some people find great self-gratification in pretending to be the priest. I think it is wrong.

 

[Walking_Home]

Ms. Andrea,

As a Catholic, I apologize to you. I apologize, because what you are experiencing, should not be occuring.

Hold on tight to our Great Lord in heaven, for He is holding you always. Do not let go.

When you finish RCIA and become one with the Church, please find another parish, where Christ is King.

I will pray for you, and also for the people at your church, that they come to their senses.

 

[AWall]

Thank you so much for your prayers. It means a lot to me. Maybe through extra prayers I will be able to figure out what I’m so upset about. I think i should not have gone through the “mock” rite.

Andrea

 

[wannabee]

Hard to quantify what you thought here - but ‘something’ inside you told you this was NOT right and that ‘something’ was correct.

Just as we are being told to become more reverential - and Bishops are telling you whether you accept their thoughts or not ] along comes someone else who says

" Hey I’ve got a great idea !!"

now if it’s that great why has it taken till now for someone to say it ?

Don’t believe them … stick to your guns

YOU know what’s right

 

[netmilsmom]

AWall:

I’m sure I’m not making any sense and I’ll probably be blasted for being upset about it. I’m sure someone will say “what’s the big deal?” I don’t know! But I didn’t even want to go to church the next day. It was a struggle to read my bible last night.

God Bless you Andrea.
I’m glad you could vent here. Sounds pretty wrong to me. I would be creeped out by some “Priest Wanna be” playing liturgy.

The Director was not correct in my mind. Someone here will give you a CCC quote, but pray hard and you will feel better.

 

[decn2b]

Don’t participate in the choir

Finish your Instruciotn (if you are baptized then you are not really in RCIA)

Find another Parish (one that calls itself a parish instead of faith community)

I see you are in Curtis…I see a town near there called St. Urban. SOunds like a Catholic name to me. Check out the surronding area for a more tradtional (reverent) parish.

 

[Lapsed]

AWall:

During the second 1/2 of the workshop we were asked to participate in a “mock” communion rite.

Wow, I don’t know what to say. I’m sorry.

“Mock” communion rite = mockery of the sacred in the worst way. That is one of the most offensive things I have ever heard of. What a shame that someone who is part of the Church would think that this is somehow okay.

I’ll pray for you and the other people exposed to this, and especially for those involved in doing this.

 

[CatholicSam]

Andrea, something very good has come about through your terrible experience. All of us now have the opportunity to think of what we would do if faced by that situation. We can all be prepared to defend our faith! Offer up your tears to console Jesus and make up for the utter lack of respect those people were showing. NO! That is NOT the Catholic way!

 

[AWall]

Thank you, thank you. I can’t thank you all enough. I think I started to zero in on my feelings. The word mockery hit me last night. I really wanted to speak up when they asked for opinions, but I couldn’t…I was intimidated…they had already made fun of me twice. One person even apologized. My husband and I are talking about finding another parish. I was reading 1 Corinthians last night and this jumped out…"be on your guard, stand firm in the faith, be courageous, be strong." I read it over and over…I’m feeling a little better.

Thank you.

Andrea

 

[MusicMan]

There’s a lot wrong with this scenario. The first being, that the “mock” rite was completely unnecessary. There are certain points during the Liturgy of the Eucharist that instrumental accompaniment is allowed. The actual Eucharistic Prayer, however, only allows accompaniment beyond the occassional pitch to help the priest (only if he’s chanting), at the Mystery of Faith and the Doxology. There isn’t any NEED to replicate the entire Liturgy of the Eucharist for the conference you were participating in. If your organist/pianist needs to practice the “cues” to know when to play their part, they should be doing this with the aid of their priest, because HE will be the one doing the prayers anyway.

As for music going the entire time… hmmm… the GIRM does instruct that the communion antiphon commence at the priest’s Communion. It only gives sketchy information for how/when the organist/pianist and choir are to receive. I would expect that after the first antiphon, the musicians should receive at that time. There’s nothing wrong with a little silence during the reception of Communion.

Sigh People have their own ideas about liturgy. That’s all well and good, but they should have access to and be expected to read the current GIRM before they take on a position of leadership in liturgy. Perhaps they need to take a quiz or have a degree or something… Then they should be expected to keep thier ideas within the constraints of the GIRM.

 

[John_Lilburne]

The music during the communion procession was correct, from the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal:

1. While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.[Footnote 74: Cf. Sacred Congregation for the Sacraments and Divine Worship, Instruction Inaestimabile donum, 3 April 1980, no. 17: AAS 72 (1980), p. 338.] If, however, there is to be a hymn after Communion, the Communion chant should be ended in a timely manner.

Care should be taken that singers, too, can receive Communion with ease.

From usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml

I believe everyone standing when the singing starts is closer to the 2002 Roman Missal than some kneeling, some sitting and others standing. From the 2002 GIRM n. 42:

A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.

And in 2002 GIRM n. 43:

as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

It is not the period of “sacred silence after Communion” when there is signing or even if ministers are saying “The body of Christ” and people are responding “Amen”.

I see no justification for moving the cross during the Communion procession. It is likely to create confusion that this is the end of Mass.

 

[AWall]

John Lilburne:

The music during the communion procession was correct, from the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal:

From usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml

I believe everyone standing when the singing starts is closer to the 2002 Roman Missal than some kneeling, some sitting and others standing. From the 2002 GIRM n. 42:

And in 2002 GIRM n. 43:

It is not the period of “sacred silence after Communion” when there is signing or even if ministers are saying “The body of Christ” and people are responding “Amen”.

I see no justification for moving the cross during the Communion procession. It is likely to create confusion that this is the end of Mass.

Thanks for all the references. I found the GIRM online and am reading it. I will read the other things too…

Andrea

 

[coyote]

Andrea, I have had a similar experience. Because of my job I have occasion where I have to attend Protestant services.

Eventually I found myself becoming depressed and weepy while in these churches. All I knew at the time was that I was not comfortable and didn’t want to be there. The thing is, SOMETHING was wrong. I was aware of it on an emotional level not an intellectual one. When I asked for help in figuring it out I didn’t receive any. This only compounded my despair. Eventually I came to a solution for myself that works for me.

In a way, when we have such a profound reaction to a thing we are fortunate. I would rather, when in such situations, be inexpicably weepy than completely unaffected and unmoved.

 

[rwoehmke]

Andrea, I suppose some would call me progressive or liberal because I have not had a problem accepting the legitimate changes that have occurred since Vatican II. That being said, just reading your description of what took place at that workshop weirded me out. It just did not feel good on an emotional level. I also agree strongly with the posts that have preceeded mine. Lots of support and good advice. I will say a prayer for your families intention. Please do not let this travesty deter you in your desire to come into the Church. Although there sre some strange Catholics out there, most of us are good people.

 

[mrs_abbott]

The Eucharist is what sets Catholicism apart from other religions and is part of the core of what we believe.
Any mockery of that, even IF it’s not using consecrated hosts, is a horrible thing!
If I was in your shoes, I would have left because I couldn’t have handled that.

 

[muledog]

Sadly, you are not alone. Our bishop (William Higi) made the same requirements mandatory back in 2003 for ALL parishes in our diocese. Specifically,

1. Continuous congregational singing from the moment the celebrant receives Holy Communion until the last person to receive returns to his/her seat.
2. The “Communion procession” supposedly mirrors the entrance procession, which begins at the rear of the church. Thus, it begins at the rear and processes up to the altar.
3. The “Communion Procession” is led by a server carrying the Processional Cross.
4. The entire congregation stands from the end of “This is the Lamb of God” until the last person receives Holy Communion and returns to his/her seat.

Our bishop made these changes MANDATORY for all parishes in the diocese, even though none of them are mandatory in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. Even the singing of the Communion Song by the congregation is optional.

This has caused much distress for many in our parish. Our new pastor has made other radical changes as well, always saying that “liturgical law requires it”, but never giving any specific references to any official Church documents.

 

[Catholic_Heart]

decn2b:

Don’t participate in the choir

Finish your Instruciotn (if you are baptized then you are not really in RCIA)

Find another Parish (one that calls itself a parish instead of faith community)

I see you are in Curtis…I see a town near there called St. Urban. SOunds like a Catholic name to me. Check out the surronding area for a more tradtional (reverent) parish.

Those who have been baptized and are converting to Catholicism from another Christian traditioin are, indeed, part of the RCIA. They are called Candidates, and are preparing for Confirmation and First Eucharist.

 

[gelsbern]

I wasn’t going to reply to this being a non Roman catholic, but I do see some of her concern, but I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as many here are making it out to be.

Calling it a “mock” communion rite, is propably an improper use of terminology. A “practice” communion rite would be more like it. And if you visit any seminary and ask them, there are practice masses said all the time by seminarians and this includes the words of institution.

Remember, the sacrament is matter, form and intent.

Everything else God has given us it is trinitarian in nature.

God = Father, Son, Spirit
Our Faith = Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium
Our Sacraments = Matter, Form, Intent

In the scenario above I see that 2 things were missing from the “practice” communion, matter and intent. So since they were missing, and I highly doubt that the choir leader had any intent, it was a simple practice rite. They also do this for the young children who are getting ready to have their first communions as well. Even during many marriage rehearsals there are certain sections that are practiced, AND a good altar boy program, even if run by women, has several practice sessions.

Had the choir leader, had the intention of actually doing communion it still wouldn’t have mattered because SHE is not proper matter.

As for those that doubt “practice” masses occur

catholiclight.stblogs.org/archives/014783.html

That reminds me of a story from my school. Some seminarian was going through a practice Mass; it was part of an exam, so the faculty in the department were there to watch him and evaluate him. When he got to the Consecration, he said, “And on the night He was betrayed…”

archindy.org/criterion/local/2005/05-27/whittington.htm

On the day the pope died, Deacon Whittington was having a practice Mass at the seminary. He knew that the pontiff was near death and as he said in the eucharistic prayer, “for John Paul, our pope,” he realized at that moment that he would never be able to say that as a priest.

Also all the little boys woulf be guilty of sin for practicing mass when they were young.

benedictine.stvincent.edu/seminary/vocations/fowler.html

“By fifth or sixth grade, Santa Claus brought me a Mass kit, so I had my little altar and white vestments and alb, and I used to practice Mass,” he said with a chuckle. “That was sort of the beginning of my vocation, and it’s something that’s stayed with me all these years.

jsonline.com/news/metro/jun02/54077.asp

“Literally, he always knew he was going to be a priest,” recalled Bob Dolan, the third-oldest in the family. “So at times, I’d be doing the things that most kids are doing outside, you know, kicking the soccer ball. And he’d be inside either reading or studying or, believe it or not, practicing Mass. He would literally practice Mass when he was 10 years old. He’d call the family together and have a fake Mass. It was quite the sight.”

Your tears may not have been what you saw wrong, there, it may have been from what is wrong in the Episcopal churches across the country. And yes, it’s a good idea to talk to your priest about this matter, just so you can get peace.

 

[AMDG1]

gelsbern:

I wasn’t going to reply to this being a non Roman catholic, but I do see some of her concern, but I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as many here are making it out to be.

It’s still bizarre and creepy. The practice Masses you referenced are different - legitimate “ends” to their “means”. Even the young boy practicing Mass is displaying his calling, growing confident in his future mission. Bringing a group of adults through the exercise for the purpose of practicing singing ? C’mon.

AWall - I’m in your corner…you have a good gut instinct, don’t lose it.