Upset, Confused... I thought I was a good person!

[RCCDefender]

I thought I was a good Catholic, an upstanding Christian, an outspoken defender of the Faith… until a week and a half ago…

I went to EWTN and asked a question. The answer that came back has me shaken up a bit. In asking about some things that go on at my church, I revealed some “guilt” about “judging” even though, as I thought, my priest had justified my actions.

The answer I received was that I was in a state of mortal sin, for basically the entire time I have been Catholic (7 yrs). Imagine my horror realizing that I had been receiving the body and blood of Christ unworthily. I felt horrible and also somewhat misled by my priest. Now I am unsure of any advice he has given me.

I went to confession for the first time in a long time and afterward I felt really good… for a few hours anyway. Then guilt and worry began creeping in again. Has other advice my priest given me caused me to be in a state of mortal sin??? Have decisions I made when joining the Church made my baptism invalid?? Will I need to spend the next seven years in the confessional?? (Okay, I know that is a little ridiculous, but now I feel like such a horrible person!)

I now even wonder about my baptism. I was baptized in the Catholic Church, so I didn’t make confession beforehand. I also didn’t say anything to the priest about being baptized in a church that called the Bride of Christ the Whore of Babylon. I did not acknowledge their baptism and the pastor there said that if I was going to convert I should be baptized Catholic. I know you are saying, “Why are you even listening to him?” but I was relieved to hear him say that for two reasons: a) the aforementioned comment and similar comments that were made to me even as a child in Sunday school, and b) I lived a bad life and wanted my sins to be washed away by the baptismal waters of the One True Church. I had read about people being conditionally baptized when their church had the attitude mine had. I did not know there was a difference between regular baptism and conditional baptism (and I didn’t know about conditional confession). Now I wonder if I should go to confession for every sin I have ever had…

My husband and I had a baby two years ago. She was in the NICU at Children’s Hospital for her first eight days. This was a complete surprise to us; we did all the right things, and I didn’t even get any drugs during labor because I was afraid to pass them on to her. It turned out that I was the problem! My body treated her like a virus the entire time I was pregnant! She survived but her platelet count was very low – and dropping. My platelets turned out to be some rare type and they were in her body killing hers off. The doctors told us it would be way too dangerous to have another baby. They even said that if we found ourselves pregnant again we’d need to come in for genetic counseling to see if we “want to terminate the pregnancy.” Can you believe that!?! Of course, I was devastated… I always envisioned having the large Catholic family. We were advised on the different types of birth control, with me in tears the entire time. I couldn’t even look at the other babies when I had to get my blood work.

Our priest told us that under these circumstances we would not be “endangering our souls” if we decided to use contraception. I don’t use the pill or IUD or spermicides because I know they cause untold numbers of spontaneous abortions. We use a barrier method, but now I wonder if it’s a grave sin to do so. I’ve tried to ask several different forums at EWTN but no one has responded… I don’t know what to do!! No one seems to want to answer me.

 

[Libero]

I’m sure that there will be plenty of people wanting to help you on this forum, your concerns won’t be ignored. I’m not really that much of an expert, however it seems that this whole idea of mortal sin for seven years is a confussing one, if you have been to confession then you are fine. If your concerned about what your priest has told you, then see another one. You have sort of got a good enough account here, put it in a letter and send it to your bishop asking for help, he will give you good advice, I did that once, and it really helped. I wouldn’t try to go to confession for every sin you ever did, try to remember what you have done, confess it; and as long as you have tried hard then all will be fine. The issue of contraception is tricky, it will vary alot depending on who you speak to, I will reserve an opinion on it for now.

 

[katybird]

First of all, you can’t commit a mortal sin by accident. You can make mistakes and be wrong in your decisions, but a mortal sin is to deliberately go against what you know is right. If you didn’t know that you were committing a mortal sin, then you probably weren’t. (This is not to say that you should try to remain in ignorance, but culpability is lessened when you really don’t know what you’re doing.)

If a priest told you that it would be OK for you to use birth control, then it would be on him - he’s the one responsible for teaching you right. There is something to be said for trusting our pastors, and it sounds like you were careful to avoid abortificant methods.

You can still avoid pregnancy without using any birth control, and you can get information on how to do it via the Couple to Couple League. ccli.org/

If you worry about old, unforgiven sins, then you should talk to a priest. Tell him everything you’ve told us, and ask him what you should do. At some point, you ought to have the opportunity to do a general confession. Once you’ve done that, then you have to stop worrying about the past.

God isn’t really like the IRS. He’s not going to do an audit on your life and say “Oh! Lookie here… you forgot to mention a mortal sin in your general confession. Because you failed to dot every “i” and cross every “t” you’re going to Hell!”

I used to worry about that sort of thing. Because I continue to learn about the Church, after my conversion, I am still sometimes in a position where I’ll either remember something stupid I once did and had forgotten all about, or learn about/have something brought to my attention that I hadn’t thought of before. I figured it was going to drive me crazy, so I specifically asked a priest if I could have absolution for all those forgotten old sins that I may remember at some point or may never remember and he granted it. Gave me a clean slate from which I can move forward.

 

[Orionthehunter]

My advice is that you schedule a face-to-face confession with a Priest. If you believe that your Pastor may have a position contrarty to the Church (I’m not saying that he does but you will feel better if you go to someone else), I’d find a Priest who has a reputation for being orthodox and preferrably one with an expertise on marriage/contraception issues. Through that process, you can get everything on the table, make a good confession, and come away absolved for your past sins. While the past was the best time to have resolved this, today is the next best time. Additionally, in this process, you can get proper advice for you to remain faithful to the Teachings of the Church.

Don’t beat yourself up too harshly. From your post, it is obvious that you didn’t intentionally sin or deny the Church’s teaching. You were operating under what you thought was sound advice. While not totally eliminating your culpability, it does mitigate it.

From the Catechism:

1857
For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858
Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859
Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860
Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

 

[YinYangMom]

First of all…breathe…

Please, please, please, understand that when you followed the advice of your priest in good faith you did the right thing so I cannot understand how anyone would say you committed a mortal sin for following the advice of a priest.

This thread touches upon what constitutes a mortal sin:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=31918&highlight=mortal

“…please keep in mind the three requirements for mortal sin: grave matter, full knowledge, full and free consent of the will (cf. CCC 1857). If all three of those requirements are not met, at most the sin would be venial if it was a sin at all (cf. CCC 1862).”

The lesson to be learned here, as was the case with me, is to recognize full knowledge and full consent…and then double check the priest’s advice with valid sources.

Once I caught wind that my catechisis was wrong and may have led me to live a not-so-Catholic life, I researched everything!!

I came here to ask questions.
I read the various links posters provided on specific topics.
I searched the vatican website to get to the source of Catholic teachings.

Then I was able to see where I either misunderstood what I had been taught or advised, and where I was just flat out given bad instruction.

Now…for those matters I was flat out taught poorly, I am not guilty of mortal sin for living in that manner because I did so in good faith, trusting the priests and teachers who guided me** at that time**.

For those matters where I realized I had misunderstood the teachings all along, then that too, would not be considered “mortal” sin on my part because I did not have full knowledge, my knowledge was impaired, obviously.

But to play it safe I went ahead and confessed all previous behaviors based on the erroneous and impaired knowledge with a priest - letting him know that I now understand these matters to have been sinful, though I didn’t know that at the time, but now that I know, I really am sorry I messed up all along.

When I got absolution, boy did it feel great!!
I do not go back and rethink or re-analyze my past behaviors anymore. There’s no point. In God’s eyes - there is no more past - it has been erased and I have to trust in that.

But from this point forward, I double check almost everything I hear or read from priests and bishops now against the vatican sight and trusted orthodox sources.

Hope that helps.

Be at peace, RCCDefender.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

RCCDefender:

On the one hand it is a sign of growth to be aware of and concerned about one’s sins and to seek the confessional. On the other hand worrying about your absolution could be a sign of ‘scrupulosity.’

What I think is the best thing all around to do, is to seek out a spiritual director. Call your church office and start there.

As for your questions on birth control: speak to your spiritual director on the matter, but also read the following:

Evangelium Vitae
Donum Vitae
Humanae Vitae

Family Life is part of a complete package which God has given us and cannot safely be broken up into little bits such as whether or not to contracept.

 

[1ke]

RCC–

First of all, you didn’t do anything wrong regarding baptism b/c you didn’t know. Your priest should have been more thorough in his paperwork before doing the baptism. So, either you were validly baptized in the old church or were validly baptized in the Catholic Church-- either way you are baptized and you are in full communion with the Catholic Church. No need to look back.

Secondly, as an adult convert to Catholicism (at 25) and previously baptized in the Episcopal church, (as a baby) I can relate to your issue with having to confess “every sin” you ever committed. The priest for my fist confession handled it in a very sensitive manner. Basically I did not list every sin sequentially-- how could I remember all that? Anyway, I just listed areas and major things I’d done, and certainly had contrition for all the little every-day things… and that was all.

I did a general confession about a year ago where I went back over thes things-- listing major sins and things from my past, especially those that I was not convicted about at the time I entered the Church but now am convicted about.

Third, find another priest confessor. This one is not giving you good advice. Contraception is ALWAYS gravely disordered. You should follow your doctor’s recommendation but must use moral means to do so-- please contact your diocese regarding Natural Family Planning or visit www.ccli.org or www.creightonmodel.com for info.

Fourth, get a Catechism and use it. Whenever you doubt something you’ve been told regarding what the Church teaches, use this as your reference point. If a priest says contraception is OK, and you think something is fishy… look in the Catechism and you will see that indeed the priest is wrong.
Priests are human, and although they should no better they do make mistakes. The Church thankfully provides many documents that allow you to search out the answer for yourself.

Fifth, I have no idea what you asked on EWTN that gave such a reply… but remember internet forums are not always the best place for spiritual guidance. Again, find a new priest confessor that you can talk through everything with.

 

[manualman]

Some good advice has been given here already that needs no repeating.

But nobody has mentioned yet the medical problem. The fact is that we live in a culture hostile to families. It sometimes seems like the whole OB/GYN establishment has as its goal to make sure that few people have more than one kid. God forbid anybody have more than two. I’d probably be somewhat suspicious of the prognosis of your doctor and sniff around to find a doctor that cares about how YOU feel about your situation.

How is the baby? You didn’t say. I have a two year old too. Hope things are well today!

If you practice NFP carefully, you will have no more probability of getting pregnant than with a barrier method. Probably less if you have grave reason to do it very carefully! Why not switch?

 

[RCCDefender]

My daughter is fine, fat, and sassy! She weighed 8lbs 1.5oz at birth and has been gainig ever since (27 lbs. last time we checked)!

The doctor says that my body has already formed the antibodies to the “normal” platelet type. This condition is so rare that they don’t check mothers when they are pregnant. If I got pregnant again the army is already in place now to attack the baby, so to speak. Even so, I would be on complete bedrest and have a scheduled cesarean. I would have to go to a high risk specialist (I had a midwife last time). However, it would be rare to have another child make it to term, he or she would most likely end up hemorraging in the womb.

I can’t stand the thought of that…

 

[felra]

Libero:

The issue of contraception is tricky, it will vary alot depending on who you speak to, I will reserve an opinion on it for now.

Just to further clarify: The “issue” of contraception is not sticky. What can be sticky is finding orthodox priestly counsel (as others have recommended that you seek out). The only thing that varies is various “opinions” by those misinformed of or consciously divergent from what the Church teaches. Like others have stated, take a breath and proceed forward from this point on.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Libero:

The issue of contraception is tricky, it will vary alot depending on who you speak to, I will reserve an opinion on it for now.

Not according to Catholic teaching.

 

[fix]

RCCDefender:

I thought I was a good Catholic, an upstanding Christian, an outspoken defender of the Faith… until a week and a half ago…

You have received some excellent advice from all these posters. I hope you follow up on it and all is well for your family. God Bless.

 

[Ruthie]

I was confused about baptism, too. In fact, I was hoping I had not been validly baptized, so that I could skip the long, long general confession I will need to make. (We just started RCIA.)

I discovered that I was validly baptized at 4 months old, so I’ll have to ask Father to reserve a few hours for me…

What it comes down to is that, if your first baptism was performed in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, that you are validly baptized, no matter what the one who baptized you thinks of the Church.

If you were not baptized in those names, your baptism was not valid, and you’re off the hook. I think that, for instance, Mormon and Jehovah’s Witnesses baptisms are not valid. (Double check on the “Ask an Apologist” forum; my memory is frequently unreliable.)

I’ve been reading Christopher West’s book, Good News About Love And Marriage (I hope I got that right). I’m in the middle of his excellent section about contraception. Get a copy!

(I told my DH he needs to read it, because my expectations of marraige have been raised! - I should mention that we’re practicing celibacy until my teenake mistake of a “marriage” is annulled.)

In the meantime, what I do know about the medical use of contraception is that it is not allowed when the prevention of pregnancy is the intended result.

Don’t worry, though; NFP is not your mother’s “rhythm method.” When correctly done, it’s more effective than condoms.

Another side effect of NFP… did you know that, in the general Catholic population, we have about the same divorce rate as the rest? Except! Couples who use NFP have a divorce rate of nearly zero! :clapping:

 

[goravens]

manualman:

Some good advice has been given here already that needs no repeating.

But nobody has mentioned yet the medical problem. The fact is that we live in a culture hostile to families. It sometimes seems like the whole OB/GYN establishment has as its goal to make sure that few people have more than one kid. God forbid anybody have more than two. I’d probably be somewhat suspicious of the prognosis of your doctor and sniff around to find a doctor that cares about how YOU feel about your situation.

How is the baby? You didn’t say. I have a two year old too. Hope things are well today!

If you practice NFP carefully, you will have no more probability of getting pregnant than with a barrier method. Probably less if you have grave reason to do it very carefully! Why not switch?

Expounding off this, have you ever thought of getting a second opinion on the medical problem? There are some terrific doctors out there who are well-versed in Catholic medical practices and who may have more information to give you or ways to help. Some reputable nfp doctors are listed in this directory: omsoul.com/nfp-only.php You might want to check into seeing one if they are near you.

 

[st_ignatius110]

I JUST read an article in " Celebrate Life" magazine. It was about a woman who has a disease that makes her “allergic” to her unborn babies. This woman has an incredible story of love and sacrifice for her babies. She has three children and had one miscarriage. With her third child the disease was even worse. She was on feeding tubes for 77 days, she suffered immensly. But the amazing part was this. She KNEW she would suffer and she did it anyway. I highly reccommend this article, I will try and find the name of the article for you.

 

[Libero]

Not according to Catholic teaching.

Just to further clarify: The “issue” of contraception is not sticky. What can be sticky is finding orthodox priestly counsel (as others have recommended that you seek out). The only thing that varies is various “opinions” by those misinformed of or consciously divergent from what the Church teaches. Like others have stated, take a breath and proceed forward from this point on.

Yes you are correct, church teaching is definite, I am not arguing that, I am saying that what to do about contraception in the OP’s position will vary depending on who they talk to, even some of the highest ranking clergy members are in dispute about the nature of contraception, and if it is ever justified; such as Cardinal Daneels. Despite this, your quoting me does not really help the OP.

 

[fix]

Libero:

I am saying that what to do about contraception in the OP’s position will vary depending on who they talk to, even some of the highest ranking clergy members are in dispute about the nature of contraception, and if it is ever justified; such as Cardinal Daneels. Despite this, your quoting me does not really help the OP.

No cardinal, no matter how liberal, may over rule Christ. Contraception is always wrong.

 

[Libero]

No cardinal, no matter how liberal, may over rule Christ. Contraception is always wrong.

That is not what I am saying, please don’t manipulate what I say into something that is unture, I am not implying that a cardinal can over rule christ, that should be obvious, he does however make an aknowledgable argument - In saying this I am not condoning contraception, pleases don’t think I am.

 

[fix]

Libero:

That is not what I am saying, please don’t manipulate what I say into something that is unture, I am not implying that a cardinal can over rule christ, that should be obvious, he does however make an aknowledgable argument - In saying this I am not condoning contraception, pleases don’t think I am.

Now let us be fair. This is your exact post:

Yes you are correct, church teaching is definite, I am not arguing that, I am saying that what to do about contraception in the OP’s position will vary depending on who they talk to,** even some of the highest ranking clergy members are in dispute about the nature of contraception**, and if it is ever justified; such as Cardinal Daneels. Despite this, your quoting me does not really help the OP.

What is your point in stating such a thing if you agree contraception is intrinsically evil?

 

[Libero]

My point was that advice by clergy members will vary, it will even vary within the highest ranking clergy members, that should be highly obvious, my original post seemed to state that, perhaps you misunderstood. Is there anything unfair there?