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Balletgirl
Guest
If I don’t get a convalidation he can’t receive either. That’s the choice.
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Wife.of.Gabriel
Guest
Other choices include:
- Waiting
- Agreeing to live as brother & sister to receive the Sacraments
- Living separately
If he speaks with the priest there probably be other options as well.
Read paragraphs 1625-1629 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Horton
Guest
I think there some missing pieces here. You say you both are in RCIA but don’t talk about you receiving any sacraments, just your husband. You don’t tell us why you have to have your marriage convalidated to begin with. Was there a prior marriage for either of you or some other impediment. Are you a baptized Catholic and married outside the Church?
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Dlee
Guest
This might be the problem. RCIA catechists can be mistaken - get the information directly from your priest.
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maryjk
Guest
I agree.
For my Convalidation I had my MOH and BM from our civil wedding.
He is Catholic, married to a non-catholic. And my MOH isn’t Catholic. They were my witnesses.
They didn’t have to know anything about marriage. My husband and I would look to actual married couples that we know for good (and bad) examples of marriage.
My MOH and BM are listed as our witnesses.
For my Convalidation I had my MOH and BM from our civil wedding.
He is Catholic, married to a non-catholic. And my MOH isn’t Catholic. They were my witnesses.
They didn’t have to know anything about marriage. My husband and I would look to actual married couples that we know for good (and bad) examples of marriage.
My MOH and BM are listed as our witnesses.
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rightness
Guest
I think your church has wisdom in requiring you to convalidate under your Catholic godparents. The purpose of godparents is to lead you into understanding the faith when you have questions.
You said “I don’t think this is how Jesus wanted it”, but have you really thought about what Jesus wanted? Does Jesus want you to get advice from someone who does not know the Sacrament of Marriage and has the experience and trials of such marriage? And I might be mistaken because it’s not made clear, but is your sister-in-law a Catholic? It would be even moreso a problem if she isn’t because a non-Catholic doesn’t know the value of marriage.
Regardless, on paper, it’s not actually a requirement, but it is good advice. You say you’re probably going to talk to you sister-in-law about any problems, that’s great. You should probably talk with many people about your problems, but first and foremost, you should talk to those with the graces and experience being married in the Church and the priest.
Don’t take this the wrong way, I do sense a bit of pride to reject your priest’s advice and to delay your convalidation. It’s good advice, and there’s nothing wrong with your godparents signing as witnesses. It doesn’t prevent you from talking to your sister-in-law, nor is there any additional holy relationship established with the witness signing the papers. I do suggest you pray and really clear up your feelings because feelings are our enemy and temptation. Don’t let it be in the way of God’s will. In Isaiah 53:7, the suffering servant, Jesus, does not open his mouth and protest against the authority. It is God’s will that He has accepted. Even St. Padre Pio would submit to the Church even when it was a mistake. However, what you’re facing is not death or condemnation. It’s good advice to help you get closer with your godparents.
You said “I don’t think this is how Jesus wanted it”, but have you really thought about what Jesus wanted? Does Jesus want you to get advice from someone who does not know the Sacrament of Marriage and has the experience and trials of such marriage? And I might be mistaken because it’s not made clear, but is your sister-in-law a Catholic? It would be even moreso a problem if she isn’t because a non-Catholic doesn’t know the value of marriage.
Regardless, on paper, it’s not actually a requirement, but it is good advice. You say you’re probably going to talk to you sister-in-law about any problems, that’s great. You should probably talk with many people about your problems, but first and foremost, you should talk to those with the graces and experience being married in the Church and the priest.
Don’t take this the wrong way, I do sense a bit of pride to reject your priest’s advice and to delay your convalidation. It’s good advice, and there’s nothing wrong with your godparents signing as witnesses. It doesn’t prevent you from talking to your sister-in-law, nor is there any additional holy relationship established with the witness signing the papers. I do suggest you pray and really clear up your feelings because feelings are our enemy and temptation. Don’t let it be in the way of God’s will. In Isaiah 53:7, the suffering servant, Jesus, does not open his mouth and protest against the authority. It is God’s will that He has accepted. Even St. Padre Pio would submit to the Church even when it was a mistake. However, what you’re facing is not death or condemnation. It’s good advice to help you get closer with your godparents.
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maryjk
Guest
It seems most Godparents are already well known to the person being baptized or at least known to their parents.
I imagine it would be hard to open up to or get close to someone that is essentially assigned to you. It could be that they have nothing in common other than being married and Catholic.
I know many Catholic couples that I would never ask about their marriage or tell them about mine. They just don’t have the kind of marriage I want. In fact, the couple I see as the closest to mine marriage, isn’t Catholic.
I imagine it would be hard to open up to or get close to someone that is essentially assigned to you. It could be that they have nothing in common other than being married and Catholic.
I know many Catholic couples that I would never ask about their marriage or tell them about mine. They just don’t have the kind of marriage I want. In fact, the couple I see as the closest to mine marriage, isn’t Catholic.
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Gorgias
Guest
A couple can’t just make that decision unilaterally. It must be something that their pastor makes the prudential judgment is a possibility, and which he offers as an option.
OK… but the Church doesn’t require ‘godparents’ as wedding witnesses. Can the godparents be present for the wedding? Sure! Must they be witnesses? Nope.
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rightness
Guest
Yeah, I mentioned that it’s not a requirement. Just good advice.
Reading some other posts here in detail, it seems like it’s not the priest that’s requiring it, but the RCIA director (?). Definitely have the priest straighten it out, and I wouldn’t hesitate to walk into the Archdiocese and ask personally for clarification too.
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Wife.of.Gabriel
Guest
Yup, my point is that they’ve got multiple options that they can discuss with their priest. The O.P. is Not forced into a single decision. In Catholicism, we are completely free to enter into, or not enter into, a Marriage. Marriage is Invalid, if one or both partners feel coerced…getting a non-Catholic marriage Convalidate by the Catholic Church in an invalid manner is a waste of time.
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
I don’t even recall who the witnesses were for our convalidation. My wife doesn’t either. They were random people from her RCIA class. Why does it matter who they are?
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Agree. There are some cultures where there are godparents for First Communion as well as for weddings, neither are part of Canons.
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rightness
Guest
I don’t think that’s the point that it doesn’t matter who they are.
I think the point is making them matter (them, in the OP’s case, the godparents or someone experienced with Catholic Marriage). Establishing a relationship with experienced people is helpful to the marriage. In your case, maybe these RCIA people aren’t the best to talk to about marriage, but why not be friends with them?
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
Didn’t say we weren’t friends with them; I said we didn’t know who they were. We were on friendly terms with everyone in the room and still are with most. My point was that I don’t know who Father considered as the witnesses and listed on the paperwork because no one other than my wife, myself, and Father stood up at any point - the witnesses at a convalidation don’t need to have any role other than saying to the Church, “yes, I was there, I saw this happen.” Consult whomever you wish about marital issues otherwise.
Sure, you can have something else more meaningful, but it isn’t necessary for the sacrament, which seemed to me to be implied in the OP’s post. I get wanting important people to be present and involved. I didn’t mean to be rude. I simply meant to say that we might be improperly emphasizing a label.
Sure, you can have something else more meaningful, but it isn’t necessary for the sacrament, which seemed to me to be implied in the OP’s post. I get wanting important people to be present and involved. I didn’t mean to be rude. I simply meant to say that we might be improperly emphasizing a label.
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rightness
Guest
Oh yeah, I don’t mean to be rude either. I’m just saying that we should turn something we’re given that we don’t like into a good thing.
I think the OP can use this opportunity to build or make stronger the relationships that will benefit them.
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Gorgias
Guest
But, it wouldn’t be “in an invalid manner”… just “in a non-prescribed manner” and possibly “in a not terribly pastoral manner” as well.
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Wife.of.Gabriel
Guest
I’m no Canon Lawyer, but the Catechism of the Catholic Church is pretty clear, a Marriage not entered into completely freely by both partners is invalid.
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Gorgias
Guest
It’s not the marriage that they aren’t entering into freely… it’s the requirements placed on the witnesses that are rankling them.
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TC3033
Guest
Uh, pardon? As a non-Catholic (married to a Catholic) I find this fairly uncharitable and honestly pretty inaccurate.
I tend to think my wife and I understand the value of marriage just as much (and in some cases) more than some Catholics.
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rightness
Guest
It’s very accurate. God is the embodiment of marriage, of endless self-giving love where all truths come from. For a person that doesn’t believe in this higher order of marriage won’t understand what is a perfect marriage.
Yes, many Catholics won’t even live up to a speck of this kind of love, and many non-Catholics could do a better job, but the fact remains that real love comes and is given by God. Not all Catholics even understand this, but the ones that do believe and seek knowledge to know God better and to imitate Him and His love more perfectly. That’s why a priest, who is never married to a woman (but married to the Church), will always know marriage better than a married couple.
If you think you have this understanding of love, then maybe you’re more Catholic than you think. The Romans would be leaving their babies out to die, and it would be us Catholics who would be the first ones to save them since the first century. These are virtues given and taught to us by God. If you feel like it’s similar to your understanding, then maybe you should seek it out.
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