Urgent help required

[jeff417]

I am involved in an ecumenical Bible study of the book of James. Tonight we are finishing up Chapter 5. Throughout the course there have been subtle, and not so subtle digs at our Catholic beliefs. I have tried to take the higher ground and offer correction and challenges of my own in a charitable manner. Tonight’s class is our final one until September and I have an issue with the following question…

7. James, the half-brother of Jesus, denied the deity of Christ when He was on earth, but Jesus restored him and this letter is the fruit of that restoration. Fittingly, James closes his letter with a pastoral appeal for restoration in the church for those who wander. Paraphrase his appeal in 5:19-20 and give an explanation for his statement “will cover a multitude of sins.”

This being our last opportunity to share, I want to be sure to leave feeling as though I had given a decent rebuttal of the implied claims against Our Blessed Mother’s perpetual virginity. Any and all help is appreciated. God Bless.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I am involved in an ecumenical Bible study of the book of James. Tonight we are finishing up Chapter 5. Throughout the course there have been subtle, and not so subtle digs at our Catholic beliefs. I have tried to take the higher ground and offer correction and challenges of my own in a charitable manner. Tonight’s class is our final one until September and I have an issue with the following question…

7. James, the half-brother of Jesus, denied the deity of Christ when He was on earth, but Jesus restored him and this letter is the fruit of that restoration. Fittingly, James closes his letter with a pastoral appeal for restoration in the church for those who wander. Paraphrase his appeal in 5:19-20 and give an explanation for his statement “will cover a multitude of sins.”

This being our last opportunity to share, I want to be sure to leave feeling as though I had given a decent rebuttal of the implied claims against Our Blessed Mother’s perpetual virginity. Any and all help is appreciated. God Bless.

Let’s break that down:

• James, the half-brother of Jesus

How do they know which James this is? There are only two men named James who exist in the Acts of the Apostles (Acts 1:13), both Apostles: James the son of Zebedee and James the son of Alphaeus. No mention of ‘son of Joseph’ or ‘son of Mary’, so if the traditionally and most logically ascribed Author of James’ Epistle is James Alphaeus (since James Zebedee was murdered mid-way through Acts), who was also the leader of the Jerusalem congregation, then he couldn’t have been half-brother of Jesus.

If these Protestants want to argue that this James and his brother Joses is the one called ‘brother’ of Jesus, the Gospels explicitly show the men James and Joses were sons of another Mary, a cousin of the Blessed Virgin: Mark 15:40. On top of that, there’s no Biblical suggestion whatsoever that this James Joses had any influential place in the Church, much less wrote that Epistle.

• denied the deity of Christ when He was on earth, but Jesus restored him

Where are they getting this? The only thing this could possibly refer to this is when some relatives of Jesus (e.g. James and Joses) questioned Him being Messiah. Where did Jesus ‘restore him’? These are all bold assumptions, and quite laughable in light of actual Bible study.

• Paraphrase his appeal in 5:19-20 and give an explanation for his statement “will cover a multitude of sins.”

Paraphrase of James 5:19f - It is possible to lose your salvation, and anyone who rescues a soul in danger will save his own soul (the rescuer’s, thus not faith alone saving) and cover (indulgences/penance) for his own sins (the rescuer’s).

See this link for how to use James 2:24 most effectively.

 

[Irish_Polock]

I am involved in an ecumenical Bible study of the book of James. Tonight we are finishing up Chapter 5. Throughout the course there have been subtle, and not so subtle digs at our Catholic beliefs. I have tried to take the higher ground and offer correction and challenges of my own in a charitable manner. Tonight’s class is our final one until September and I have an issue with the following question…

7. James, the half-brother of Jesus, denied the deity of Christ when He was on earth, but Jesus restored him and this letter is the fruit of that restoration. Fittingly, James closes his letter with a pastoral appeal for restoration in the church for those who wander. Paraphrase his appeal in 5:19-20 and give an explanation for his statement “will cover a multitude of sins.”

This being our last opportunity to share, I want to be sure to leave feeling as though I had given a decent rebuttal of the implied claims against Our Blessed Mother’s perpetual virginity. Any and all help is appreciated. God Bless.

Define what you mean by “ecumenical”.

 

[codeyrolley]

If these Protestants want to argue that this James and his brother Joses is the one called ‘brother’ of Jesus, the Gospels explicitly show the men James and Joses were sons of another Mary, a cousin of the Blessed Virgin: Mark 15:40. On top of that, there’s no Biblical suggestion whatsoever that this James Joses had any influential place in the Church, much less wrote that Epistle.

Does Mark 15:40 say explicitly who the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome is, if not where would I look to find out?

 

[jeff417]

Ecumenical in that some of us are Catholic and others are non-Catholic Christians. The Bible study has helped clarify what the Catholic Church believes and what it doesn’t believe in the minds of my Protestant companions. I pray that this type of discourse will help guide them toward a more complete understanding of the Truth! God Bless.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Does Mark 15:40 say explicitly who the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome is, if not where would I look to find out?

What do you mean? It says “Mary the mother of James and Joses” - i.e. another Mary. Salome is a woman.

• Mat 27:56 among whom were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee
• Mat 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.
• Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome.
• Mk 16:1 When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.
• John 19:25 but standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

The Biblical evidence is clear: Mary mother of James and Joses - aka “the other Mary” - is the Blessed Virgin’s sister/cousin, and thus James and Joses are cousins of Jesus.

Protestants generally ‘hate’ this form of true Bible study, because it explicitly refutes their attempt at undermining the dogma of The Blessed Virgin’s Perpetual Virginity.

 

[codeyrolley]

What do you mean? It says “Mary the mother of James and Joses” - i.e. another Mary. Salome is a woman.

• Mat 27:56 among whom were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee
• Mat 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.
• Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome.
• Mk 16:1 When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.
• John 19:25 but standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

The Biblical evidence is clear: Mary mother of James and Joses - aka “the other Mary” - is the Blessed Virgin’s sister/cousin, and thus James and Joses are cousins of Jesus.

Protestants generally ‘hate’ this form of true Bible study, because it explicitly refutes their attempt at undermining the dogma of The Blessed Virgin’s Perpetual Virginity.

When we need to know its Mary mother of Jesus, she will be referred to as woman, the word for Eve?

 

[Crumpy]

Well, even with the time difference, it’s too late to dig into all of your issues.

If your bible study was truly an “ecumenical” one, then it should have been structured differently, with nobody ganging up on you, first of all. Second of all, the issues should have been clarified, so that you might have a shot at answering something intelligently.

so, I hope you come back and tell us how it went.,

You know, it’s not like you had training in how to answer all these critics, because you undoubtedly have not. It’s something if Catholics are properly catechized, in the first place, not to mention trained in apologetics – which we’re not.

James is the “catholic” epistle, and it should be the easiest to argue from, about the suffiency or not of faith alone. doesn’t it say that we’re NOT saved by faith alone? That should be an obvious starter.

It didn’t help that you posed these questions at virtually the last minute.

 

[jeff417]

Crumpy–sorry to hit you with a last minute appeal, no worries. Believe me, I am not being “ganged up on.” Without tooting my own horn, I believe that I have represented the faith well throughout our study and have found my Protestant “brethren” even taking notes. I love these forums because there are so many people with so much to offer and I felt it couldn’t hurt to throw that question out there to see what came up. Thanx to all for your (name removed by moderator)ut, and I will let you know how it goes. God Bless.

 

[Ignatius]

I am involved in an ecumenical Bible study of the book of James. Tonight we are finishing up Chapter 5. Throughout the course there have been subtle, and not so subtle digs at our Catholic beliefs. I have tried to take the higher ground and offer correction and challenges of my own in a charitable manner. Tonight’s class is our final one until September and I have an issue with the following question…

7. James, the half-brother of Jesus, denied the deity of Christ when He was on earth, but Jesus restored him and this letter is the fruit of that restoration. Fittingly, James closes his letter with a pastoral appeal for restoration in the church for those who wander. Paraphrase his appeal in 5:19-20 and give an explanation for his statement “will cover a multitude of sins.”

This being our last opportunity to share, I want to be sure to leave feeling as though I had given a decent rebuttal of the implied claims against Our Blessed Mother’s perpetual virginity. Any and all help is appreciated. God Bless.

An ecumenical bible study would contain several verities of Christians - Orthodox, Coptic, and other Christians; not just Protestants. If it’s just Protestants, it isn’t really an ecumenical bible study. Don’t be fooled and Don’t go to Protestant bible studies. If you want to have a real discussion of respective beliefs of Protestants and Catholics, the only way is one on one, which most of them won’t do.

 

[jeff417]

Ignatius-I completely disagree. If you are secure in your faith and prepare with prayer and research ahead of time you can have a productive dialogue with Protestants. Of course every situation and group is different but in my case this study has been a source of grace for us. This is the last of 9 months of studies and I have gotten the Protestant members to question their church’s teaching on sola fide, individual interpretation of Scripture, and even made strides into their perception of our Blessed Mother. I try to do this by openly and unapologetically professing my faith and accepting that they will not change their viewpoint overnight. I hope to only plant questions in their interpretation of scripture and let the Holy Spirit guide them. Tonight’s Bible study went well, they even agreed that the question I put in the OP was indefensible. Thank you for all your (name removed by moderator)ut! God Bless.

 

[ESMDHokie77]

Ignatius-I completely disagree. If you are secure in your faith and prepare with prayer and research ahead of time you can have a productive dialogue with Protestants. Of course every situation and group is different but in my case this study has been a source of grace for us. This is the last of 9 months of studies and I have gotten the Protestant members to question their church’s teaching on sola fide, individual interpretation of Scripture, and even made strides into their perception of our Blessed Mother. I try to do this by openly and unapologetically professing my faith and accepting that they will not change their viewpoint overnight. I hope to only plant questions in their interpretation of scripture and let the Holy Spirit guide them. Tonight’s Bible study went well, they even agreed that the question I put in the OP was indefensible. Thank you for all your (name removed by moderator)ut! God Bless.

Do they ever gang up on you? Or is it more of a back and forth, even, conversation?

You most definitely seem to be well prepared for such confrontations, I’ll pray your efforts bear fruit, please also pray that mine do also.

 

[Ignatius]

Ignatius-I completely disagree. If you are secure in your faith and prepare with prayer and research ahead of time you can have a productive dialogue with Protestants. Of course every situation and group is different but in my case this study has been a source of grace for us. This is the last of 9 months of studies and I have gotten the Protestant members to question their church’s teaching on sola fide, individual interpretation of Scripture, and even made strides into their perception of our Blessed Mother. I try to do this by openly and unapologetically professing my faith and accepting that they will not change their viewpoint overnight. I hope to only plant questions in their interpretation of scripture and let the Holy Spirit guide them. Tonight’s Bible study went well, they even agreed that the question I put in the OP was indefensible. Thank you for all your (name removed by moderator)ut! God Bless.

May God continue to bless you as you give this wonderful witness to The Faith.

 

[Big_Dummy]

What proof is there that Joseph had a privious wife before Mary? One theory is Joseph had a priveous wife before Mary and that James was the offspring of that marriage. Anyone who has step family today, calls their step brothers, brother.

Was James present when Thomas called Jesus “My Lord and My God” ???