Urgent: Is it Christian to throw out someone else's alcohol?

[Semper_Zelare]

Living in college, and with 2 of my roommates being in frats. I’ve run into this question a few times before. Should I throw away the beer or alcohol of my roommates? Or in general, is it a Christian thing to do to get rid of objects which are bad, even though they’re not ours. Would it be stealing?

Normally I just throw away all the empty… or half empty cans lying around our living room. But, if I were to say throw out 5 or 6 of the 20 cans of natty sitting in my fridge right now would that be good or bad? My roommate went out to the bars tonight, the other is at frats. So, its not like they’ll remember how much is remaining.

On a related note. On spring break me and some friends were eating at a fast food place. And this presumably homeless man asks us to watch over his things while he’s in the bathroom. He’s in there for like 10 minutes, and we need to leave. We figure out he left a cell phone and a bottle of whiskey in a small black bag at his table. We ended up leaving it where it was, and didn’t throw it out. So, what’s the answer here?

P.S. I grant you it would be better trying to convince my roommates not to drink… but they’re in Frats. And I’m gonna be realistic. Theyre fratbois, they’re committed to it. Even though they’re both good guys.

 

[JaredM]

should i throw away the beer or alcohol of my roommates?

no

would it be stealing?

yes

 

[lynx]

no

yes

+1 If you start throwing away your roommates things you might want to worry about your things and your safety. Some roommates might respond badly to that…

 

[neisan]

If a person has dug himself into a hole, would it not be better to assist him. Ask him if he needs help; if not, well that’s it.

 

[PatrickSebast]

Believe it or not passive aggressive campaigns against bad behavior don’t really work and often tend to make the situation worse. Now I think that everyone can agree that throwing out cans of Natty is just doing someone a favor, but whether your intention is to make someone stop drinking or just stop drinking terrible beer that certainly would never justify theft.

 

[achmafooma]

no

yes

I am not sure of the ‘official’ moral theology on the matter, but my inclination is to agree that you should not destroy somebody else’s property – even if that property is destructive to them.

Bear in mind that alcohol is not, in and of itself, intrinsically evil…so you wouldn’t be destroying something ‘bad’ (as you put it), you would be destroying something morally neutral. It is up to the individual using the alcohol whether to use it morally or not. It is the act of alcohol abuse that is potentially evil, not the alcohol itself. After all, wine – which is alcoholic – is the matter that becomes the blood of Christ in the Eucharist!

You should try to be a positive influence on your roommates and convince them to stop abusing alcohol (which I’m guessing is happening), but you have no right to destroy their property to make your point…as tempting as it may be .

I know it can be very frustrating. I was lucky to have good roommates in college, but plenty of other people on my floor fell into the stereotypical ‘frat boy’ mold. Ultimately, you can say your piece and make your points, but nobody can change their behavior but them.

God bless you!

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Now I think that everyone can agree that throwing out cans of Natty is just doing someone a favor,

LOL. Yes, i can certainly agree to that. The first time I had beer, the person who gave it to me was cruel enough to give me Natty. But hopefully my ‘drinking days’, if you could call them that, are behind me. I’m especially aware of the negative effects of alcohol, as my mom struggles with alcoholism. I think she’s been sober for around 3 months now. And me and my brother would frequently take her alcohol and talk to her about it (obviously different bc its a family matter).

But yeah, I’ve asked all my roommates if they wanted to go to Church with me, or I’d tell them I’m going to Bible study if they’re interested. One of them took me up on both offers once, but this semester he’s pledging a fraternity… so I can’t say I didn’t try and plant a seed. But I think its fair to say that being in a frat for the rest of college will be an UN-spiritual guide for him. :sad_yes:

achmafooma:

so you wouldn’t be destroying something ‘bad’ (as you put it), you would be destroying something morally neutral. It is up to the individual using the alcohol whether to use it morally or not. It is the act of alcohol abuse that is potentially evil, not the alcohol itself

Yeah, I am aware that alcohol itself is not bad. But again, I’m not aware of much alcohol consumption in college that isn’t abusing it. Maybe ordering like a margarita at a restaurant, which some of my Christian friends do. But by in large the stereotype is true.

While we’re on the subject, isn’t “abuse” basically any consumption that makes you drunk? Isn’t drunkenness, or an altered state, the proof of sin that you’ve drank in excess and abused it? As in: being “fairly merry” and being drunk are both worthy of being confessed right?

 

[PatrickSebast]

While we’re on the subject, isn’t “abuse” basically any consumption that makes you drunk? Isn’t drunkenness, or an altered state, the proof of sin that you’ve drank in excess and abused it? As in: being “fairly merry” and being drunk are both worthy of being confessed right?

From Sirach 31(NAB)

27
Wine is very life to man if taken in moderation. Does he really live who lacks the wine which was created for his joy?
28
Joy of heart, good cheer and merriment are wine drunk freely at the proper time.

Doesn’t seem that way.

There isn’t really any church teaching on it besides moderation either.

 

[benidict]

If a person has dug himself into a hole, would it not be better to assist him. Ask him if he needs help; if not, well that’s it.

Help with what? Drinking it? Im there!:thumbsup:LOL! i knew what you meant. couldnt resist.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

From Sirach 31(NAB)

27
Wine is very life to man if taken in moderation. Does he really live who lacks the wine which was created for his joy?
28
Joy of heart, good cheer and merriment are wine drunk freely at the proper time.

Doesn’t seem that way.

There isn’t really any church teaching on it besides moderation either.

Well I don’t have a Catholic Bible (yet). So, I’m left with:
Ephesians 5:8
Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.

Habbakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

And then there’s a distinction between drinking and being drunk in multiple verses in the Old Testament: 1 Samuel 25:36, 2 Samuel 11:13, 1 Kings 16:9-10, and 1 Kings 20:16.

So does anyone know the answer to this?
What exactly is the sin of alcohol abuse?
Because I drank no more than 10 times in a year. So, you couldn’t say I was a “drunkard” or an alcoholic. However, I confessed to the sin of drunkenness.
After just one single night of partying and getting mildly drunk (I’ve never been blackout drunk or forgotten anything because of drinking), I felt compelled to confess to the sin of drunkenness.

 

[puzzleannie]

no it is not okay to throw away the personal possessions of other people. These are unrelated people who share a house with you. A better solution is get new roommates. For family members who live with an alcoholic there is another rule, and they should get guidance from AA and al-anon on what to do or not do without enabling their relative. I can guarantee if you start quoting scriptures at your roommates you will not change their behavior, nor will it have any affect at all on an alcoholic who has not yet admitted he has a problem and gone to AA.

If you don’t like living with drinkers, move.

 

[LilyM]

In general I’d say no, it’s not a good idea to meddle with someone else’s property. But before I wholeheartedly say so - are your roommates above legal drinking age? Are you?

If it’s a question of it being minors illegally in possession of alcohol, for example, then possibly you would be justified in throwing it away, as you can’t tolerate others breaking the law around you.

If it were speed or ecstasy, for example, you wouldn’t simply tolerate them having it in your room, would you?

 

[PaulinVA]

What if these people thought that your Bible or Catechism was ruining you life - would they be justified in throwing them out?

 

[Brywan]

Katherine Hepburn threw out Humphrey Bogart’s alcohol in “The African Queen” and they ended up getting married…I think Leslie Caron did the same thing to Cary Grant in “Mother Goose” with the same happy ending…

must be some truth there somewhere–let me think about it some more…

 

[Semper_Zelare]

puzzleannie:

I can guarantee if you start quoting scriptures at your roommates you will not change their behavior, nor will it have any affect at all on an alcoholic who has not yet admitted he has a problem and gone to AA.

If you don’t like living with drinkers, move.

The way in which you approach other people’s posts really leaves a great deal to be desired. I didn’t say my mom was living with an alcoholic, I said she used to be one. And I didn’t say I quoted Bible scripture to my room mates, I said I invited them to Church and Bible Study, which as a cafeteria Catholic, my one room mate came to. And now will probably never go again in college because he’s in a fraternity. If after 10 months of living with these people I haven’t quoted Bible verses to them… why would you assume that’s what I’m going to do in April, the last month I’m in college? Why make that assumption?

LilyM:

But before I wholeheartedly say so - are your roommates above legal drinking age? Are you?

If it’s a question of it being minors illegally in possession of alcohol, for example, then possibly you would be justified in throwing it away, as you can’t tolerate others breaking the law around you.

Yeah, the guy who the (now 18) nattys belong to is a minor. As is everyone else in this dorm room. I could report him to the campus pd, but it wouldn’t do any good. He’d know that one of us informed the cops. And they would probably give him a slap on the wrist for it too… couple of days, probably bailed out before then.

But yeah, I’m obviously not going to throw any of them out now. This was urgent because I had one opportunity to throw out illegally possessed alcohol, when he was out on the bars. And would’ve accepted a lot less of his alcohol being left. But, whatever people.

Now, I was asking this (which no one responded to):
Ephesians 5:8
Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.

Habbakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

What exactly is the sin of alcohol abuse?
Because I drank no more than 10 times in a year. So, you couldn’t say I was a “drunkard” or an alcoholic. However, I confessed to the sin of drunkenness.
After just one single night of partying and getting mildly drunk (I’ve never been blackout drunk or forgotten anything because of drinking), I felt compelled to confess to the sin of drunkenness.
Am I right to think that any change of state at all from alcohol is excessive, and therefore a sin? I don’t think moderation includes drinking for merriment, as Sirach 31:27-28 says.

P.S.

PaulinVA:

What if these people thought that your Bible or Catechism was ruining you life - would they be justified in throwing them out?

I don’t know where you live, but I live in the U.S. And, it is not a crime to possess a Bible. If they threw out my Bible that would be stealing on their part. It is however a crime to possess alcohol if you’re not 21, and he’s not 21 for another 2 months. But yeah, there went my only chance out the window… so I’ll just have to wait for 1 kid over the course of a week to drink 18 cans of natty out of our fridge.

 

[Ashton_Gaskill]

I’m also in college and have a number of friends in fraternities. Some drink, some don’t, they’re all good guys and I think you shouldn’t lump all frat boys into the alcoholic camp. Don’t give up on your friend just because he is joining a fraternity, keep trying to help him get his drinking under control!

As for what exactly counts as being drunk, I don’t have any refereances beyond my own opinion on that one. My general rule is “if you’re doingsomething you wouldn’t do whlie sober, you’re drunk”. Is it a perfect rule? No, but it’s worked well enough for me (well, I don’t drink, but it’s worked well enough in my relating to other people who do drink).

I’m sorry people haven’t answered your question, a lot of people on this forum seem to read the first post and then not bother to check if the OP was answered thouroughly or if the conversation changed directions (assuming it was the original poster who changed the direction).

I wish you luck and I’ll pray that you find some help to getthrough to your friends.

 

[PatrickSebast]

Well I don’t have a Catholic Bible (yet).

You can read them online for free until you get one. usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml

Am I right to think that any change of state at all from alcohol is excessive, and therefore a sin? I don’t think moderation includes drinking for merriment, as Sirach 31:27-28 says.

What purpose would anyone have in drinking if not for merriment? And even a small amount of alcohol, like a single drink is going to have a slight change in a persons state of mind. Alcohol doesn’t just start hitting your brain once you reach a certain BAC, its effects just become more pronounced. If we gage sin based of alcohol simply going to ones brain and having some impact on our perceptions then not only would Christ have to be labeled a sinner, but his actions at the Wedding at Cana would have involved leading several people into sin since he supplied barrels of wine to a party that had already consumed whatever wine had been available before.

 

[larsenl1]

So does anyone know the answer to this?
What exactly is the sin of alcohol abuse?
Because I drank no more than 10 times in a year. So, you couldn’t say I was a “drunkard” or an alcoholic. However, I confessed to the sin of drunkenness.
After just one single night of partying and getting mildly drunk (I’ve never been blackout drunk or forgotten anything because of drinking), I felt compelled to confess to the sin of drunkenness.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has an excellent website with an online Bible and the Catechism.

So from the Catechism section on the Fifth Commandment You Not Kill Section II on the dignity of human life, paragraph 2290

2290
The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine so that more wine, over and above the wine already consumed, was able to be served to the wedding guests. This suggests that drinking wine for merriment is acceptable.

 

[Rence]

Living in college, and with 2 of my roommates being in frats. I’ve run into this question a few times before. Should I throw away the beer or alcohol of my roommates? Or in general, is it a Christian thing to do to get rid of objects which are bad, even though they’re not ours. Would it be stealing?

Normally I just throw away all the empty… or half empty cans lying around our living room. But, if I were to say throw out 5 or 6 of the 20 cans of natty sitting in my fridge right now would that be good or bad? My roommate went out to the bars tonight, the other is at frats. So, its not like they’ll remember how much is remaining.

On a related note. On spring break me and some friends were eating at a fast food place. And this presumably homeless man asks us to watch over his things while he’s in the bathroom. He’s in there for like 10 minutes, and we need to leave. We figure out he left a cell phone and a bottle of whiskey in a small black bag at his table. We ended up leaving it where it was, and didn’t throw it out. So, what’s the answer here?

P.S. I grant you it would be better trying to convince my roommates not to drink… but they’re in Frats. And I’m gonna be realistic. Theyre fratbois, they’re committed to it. Even though they’re both good guys.

Sometimes, in order to take care of people, we have to make decisions for them. This is true in the case where someone is not able to make decisions for him or herself. In this case they are dioriented, confused or otherwise not competent to make such a decision, and need help in doing so. This, again, is true when they are in danger of harming themselves or others. The situations you describe above don’t fit these senarios. Your friends are alert, oriented, and competent. They are capable of making their own decisions, and therefore, you don’t have the right to take their property or interfere with their bad behavior. You can, of course, tell someone in charge.

However, for example, if your friend is dead-drunk and about to drive, you have a moral, ethical obligation to try and prevent that person from driving. Being dead-drunk, they are not capable of making a sound decision and need a little bit of help…like taking away their keys, calling them a cab, calling their parents, etc.

If your friend is somehow emotionally or psychologically compromised…and you feel that their behavior needs intervention, they may not be able to actually get help because they are not in their right mind to do so (like if they are bipolar and not diagnosed yet, or in an after-trauma crisis), I would get adult help or take them to the ER.

But if someone is able to make sound decisions, and they are in their right mind, you cannot force them to comply with rules… or common sense. They have to make their own decisions, own their mistakes and learn from them.

 

[Catholic90]

Living in college, and with 2 of my roommates being in frats. I’ve run into this question a few times before. Should I throw away the beer or alcohol of my roommates? Or in general, is it a Christian thing to do to get rid of objects which are bad, even though they’re not ours. Would it be stealing?

They are not yours. It would be stealing.

Normally I just throw away all the empty… or half empty cans lying around our living room. But, if I were to say throw out 5 or 6 of the 20 cans of natty sitting in my fridge right now would that be good or bad? My roommate went out to the bars tonight, the other is at frats. So, its not like they’ll remember how much is remaining.

It is not yours.

On a related note. On spring break me and some friends were eating at a fast food place. And this presumably homeless man asks us to watch over his things while he’s in the bathroom. He’s in there for like 10 minutes, and we need to leave. We figure out he left a cell phone and a bottle of whiskey in a small black bag at his table. We ended up leaving it where it was, and didn’t throw it out. So, what’s the answer here?

It was not yours.

P.S. I grant you it would be better trying to convince my roommates not to drink… but they’re in Frats. And I’m gonna be realistic. Theyre fratbois, they’re committed to it. Even though they’re both good guys.

Why do you think a “frat boy” and a “good guy” are mutually exclusive?

About the alcohol…it is not yours. You are not their parent, their guardian, or in charge of them. The alcohol is their choice.

If you start throwing out their things, as others have mentioned, expect to start your things go missing. It is all about mutual respect. If you don’t like it, move.

College is a time of figuring out who you are and testing things. Alcohol is one of those things that gets tested. They need to figure out on their own what consequences drinking has. So unless they are endangering their own life or others’ lives, let them be.