Urgent Question About Vasectomy

[DanielJohn]

URGENT

Let’s say that a young man makes his girlfriend pregnant and then she schedules an appointment to get an abortion. He suddenly realizes what an evil thing he has done, and he immediately confesses his sin to God (through a priest if he is Catholic). Then he begs her to cancel her appointment, but she refuses. Then he tells her that if she will cancel her appointment, he will schedule an appointment to get a vasectomy so that she knows he will never do this wicked deed again. He also tells her that if she thinks their child would need to be given up for adoption, then he will be able to make up for it later by adopting a child or two when he is ready to marry someone. Then, she accepts his offer.

In summary, he committed a mortal sin by committing fornication. The temporal consequence of his mortal sin was that she scheduled a second mortal sin, an abortion. But he changed the temporal consequence of his mortal sin from the second mortal sin to a vasectomy. The consequences of the vasectomy was the cancellation of the second mortal sin and his child getting to live. They say that there is an exception to every rule, and we might have stumbled across one here. The following question is very important. Please pray and then answer YES or NO. Did he commit a second mortal sin by getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life?

 

[Bookcat]

Did he commit a second mortal sin by getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life?

The end does not justify the means.

Yes a vasectomy is a grave matter for mortal sin.

It cannot be done period. In order to commit a mortal sin one needs also the needful knowledge and deliberate consent.

The persons culpability --that is a different question. Some may have an erroneous conscience and not know better --not have a clue that what they do is wrong…

 

[Bookcat]

The end does not justify the means.

Yes a vasectomy is a grave matter for mortal sin.

It cannot be done period. In order to commit a mortal sin one needs also the needful knowledge and deliberate consent.

The persons culpability --that is a different question. Some may have an erroneous conscience and not know better --not have a clue that what they do is wrong…

 

[Corki]

Then he tells her that if she will cancel her appointment, he will schedule an appointment to get a vasectomy so that she knows he will never do this wicked deed again.

How does getting a vasectomy keep him from doing “this wicked deed again”? The" wicked deed" was in having sex with his girl friend. Unless he is planning to be castrated, a vasectomy is not likely to keep him from continued sinning.

But the answer to the question is “no”. As noted above, one cannot commit an evil so that a good (saving the baby) will come from it.

 

[Trishie]

Daniel, the young man’s response is a panicky one and not a solution. Having a vasectomy is deliberately preventing transmission of life for when he does marry.
If he believes that having a vasectomy will destroy his libido and prevent him from wanting relations again, he is very mistaken. It indeed would be a sin to have the vasectomy. Fornication is sin whether or not a child results and whether or not the person is fertile, Abortion is murder, that the young man must not support in any way. The girl has free will, and please God will not kill her baby, but the young man must not support her decision to abort financially or with personal action.
Perhaps the young man needs to consider whether the girlfriend is someone he would wish to mother his children, as killing his child is a terrible thing…
I think that he needs to go speak with his priest soon.
I will pray for the young man, the girlfriend, and the child.

Purity before marriage

The Catholic churchcondemns all artificial methods of Contraception. This includes the contraceptive pill, condoms and also medical procedures such as Vasectomy and Sterilisation. Infact the church regards contraception as mortally sinful. The official position is stated in the papal encyclical Humanae Vitae , issued by Pope Paul VI in 1968.

“Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary.”

“Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation - whether as an end or as a means.”

Humanae Vitae
christianityinview.com/catholic/morals.html

 

[RoseMary131]

URGENT

What is Urgent in your question?

I do pray an urgent prayer.

For all mothers and fathers in a crisis pregnancy - that they may see the gift of Life in the mother’s womb and choose to give life to their precious child. May God lift their pains and let them know they do have a choice - they can choose life.

May God help all mothers who are planning to abort their babies tomorrow to not go to the abortion clinic in the morning - but to keep their child.

May all abortion workers have a change of heart - may they not go to work any more at the abortion mill.

May all those suffering from abortion find Healing.

 

[RoseMary131]

I see you had a similar thread topic in 2010. Vasectomies are not the answer to end abortion.

May God bless all mothers struggling with a pregnancy. May God help the mothers to choose Life.

Our Lady of Guadalupe ~ Patroness of the Unborn ~ Pray for us.

 

[runningdude]

URGENT
…

Please pray and then answer YES or NO. Did he commit a second mortal sin by getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life?

Going out on a limb, I am guessing this is a true story. Panicking and making immoral promises to save the life of a child is not sinful. Abortion is often a spur of the moment decision, and anything a father can do to delay that decision is laudable.

**Following through is a different matter; the father of the child should seek sacramental confession and guidance from his priest. **

However, it is a more complicated matter. If the mother of the child is willing not abort, but strictly on the condition that the father get a vasectomy, that is emotional blackmail. Stress and panic could be affecting both parent’s judgements, but the relationship is not healthy. Such are the fruits of sin. Both parents ought to consider counseling following such a debacle.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

URGENT

Let’s say that a young man makes his girlfriend pregnant and then she schedules an appointment to get an abortion. He suddenly realizes what an evil thing he has done, and he immediately confesses his sin to God (through a priest if he is Catholic). Then he begs her to cancel her appointment, but she refuses. Then he tells her that if she will cancel her appointment, he will schedule an appointment to get a vasectomy so that she knows he will never do this wicked deed again. He also tells her that if she thinks their child would need to be given up for adoption, then he will be able to make up for it later by adopting a child or two when he is ready to marry someone. Then, she accepts his offer.

In summary, he committed a mortal sin by committing fornication. The temporal consequence of his mortal sin was that she scheduled a second mortal sin, an abortion. But he changed the temporal consequence of his mortal sin from the second mortal sin to a vasectomy. The consequences of the vasectomy was the cancellation of the second mortal sin and his child getting to live. They say that there is an exception to every rule, and we might have stumbled across one here. The following question is very important. Please pray and then answer YES or NO. Did he commit a second mortal sin by getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life?

I love it when school starts each year because we always get a new crop of wizz kids who think they know everything. God will not be mocked, that is a very dangerous game. Give it up. As a Catholic you should know God does not play games. You should also know the answer to your question. A vascectomy is a mortal sin in and of itself. Period. There are no circumstances which justify it. Now, if this is you, go to confession and get rid of that female and do some serious penance.

Linus2nd

 

[FrenzyJen]

Why not just stop having sex?

Get the vasectomy, to have kept his word, but not have sex in the meantime, then once the child is safe, have the vasectomy reversed.

A vasectomy isn’t a sin by itself, only if you are going to have sex. If it’s used as contraception, then yes it is a sin, but to just get the procedure if you commit to abstaining, I see no sin there.

 

[Corki]

Why not just stop having sex?

Exactly!

A vasectomy isn’t a sin by itself, only if you aren’t going to have sex. If it’s used as contraception, then yes it is a sin, but to get just the procedure if you commit to abstaining, I see no sin there

Actually getting a vasectomy IS a sin regardless of what you do afterwards.

 

[Starrsmother]

URGENT

Let’s say that a young man makes his girlfriend pregnant and then she schedules an appointment to get an abortion. He suddenly realizes what an evil thing he has done, and he immediately confesses his sin to God (through a priest if he is Catholic). Then he begs her to cancel her appointment, but she refuses. Then he tells her that if she will cancel her appointment, he will schedule an appointment to get a vasectomy so that she knows he will never do this wicked deed again. He also tells her that if she thinks their child would need to be given up for adoption, then he will be able to make up for it later by adopting a child or two when he is ready to marry someone. Then, she accepts his offer.

In summary, he committed a mortal sin by committing fornication. The temporal consequence of his mortal sin was that she scheduled a second mortal sin, an abortion. But he changed the temporal consequence of his mortal sin from the second mortal sin to a vasectomy. The consequences of the vasectomy was the cancellation of the second mortal sin and his child getting to live. They say that there is an exception to every rule, and we might have stumbled across one here. The following question is very important. Please pray and then answer YES or NO. Did he commit a second mortal sin by getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life?

Now be honest. Did this situation really happen or is this a philosophical question? The one correct answer is–as many have stated below–that the ends do not ever justify the means. Thus in no way is it right to trade a vasectomy for a woman’s decision not to have an abortion. If this really were a genuine situation that occurred–and if I were speaking to one of my sons (for instance) who had engaged in unmarried sex (ie fornication) with a total DING-BAT(ie any woman who’d be willing to make such a trade-off in the first place as it is obviously punitive at the very least) I admit that I might suggest a couple of other possible options rather than the vasectomy. Since most would involve at least a venial sin, and since I’m unsure that this isn’t some kind of “Test Question-Philosophy 101”–I’ll keep my ideas to myslf however, and not upset anyone on this thread by stating what I might actually suggest if it were to happen to my own kid in real life!

 

[Trishie]

Why not just stop having sex?

Get the vasectomy, to have kept his word, but not have sex in the meantime, then once the child is safe, have the vasectomy reversed.

A vasectomy isn’t a sin by itself, only if you are going to have sex. If it’s used as contraception, then yes it is a sin, but to just get the procedure if you commit to abstaining, I see no sin there.

Vasectomy is mutilation of the body, which is intrinsically wrong. In any case vasectomies are not always reversible.
Read paragraph 2297 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which forbids deliberate mutilation. And vasectomy is not a medical need, the sixth commandment requires chastity of unmarried women and men, not vasectomy. As the same question was made a year ago by this poster, we are being emotionally conned by this question if we take it seriously. It seemed unlikely in any case. I felt something was peculiar about the question.
The question was concerning the killing of an existing child. How would it help making promises about preventing a future child cause a woman to decide not to abort the child she already has decided to abort? The question doesn’t make sense to me.

As RoseMary correctly pointed out this poster asked the same question in 2010, so it is an academic question, with the person asking if the end justifies the means, if one sin justifies other sins. This is not a real situation. This person appears to be trying to find a way around God’s laws. It’s an irrational premise, that an unmarried Catholic man would have a vasectomy to ensure his girlfriend won’t abort the child she’s decided to abort, when it is sinful for him to have sexually relations with a woman not his wife. Why would a woman stop an abortion, a current situation, just because a man makes a promise he shouldn’t make and strikes a bargain he has no right to make as a Catholic man.

 

[DanielJohn]

Thank you for your answers. I owe you some answers to your questions about the story.

What is the “wicked deed”?
If she asks, he would say “impregnating a woman against her will.” Scientifically, it is a male fulfilling both the unitive and reproductive purposes of sex with a female who only consents to the unitive purpose. So, it is like a partial rape, because he forces part of himself upon her, but not the other part. It is the most common type of fornication. All types of fornication are mortal sins.

Is it a true story?
Yes and no. It is a scenario that happens all the time in many places around the earth, but with one exception. The thought of getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life is not occurring to the male. As evil as it may be, it does tend to take away all her excuses, irrational as they might be, for getting an abortion.

Why is it urgent?
See “Is it a true story?” The question boils down to whether that particular thought (getting a vasectomy for the sole purpose of saving his child’s life) is an evil thought or a good thought? Did it come from God or from Satan? If Satan, then why does this thought never occur to the male fornicator? Does Satan want the child dead because of original sin? This is a very deep theological question. This is why we should pray before answering. I know that the Magisterium has forbidden abortion and sterilization from the very beginning, but I also know that the Magisterium has never prayerfully considered this specific scenario. Again, thanks and may God bless all of you.

 

[MJJean]

Thank you for your answers. I owe you some answers to your questions about the story.

What is the “wicked deed”?
If she asks, he would say “impregnating a woman against her will.” Scientifically, it is a male fulfilling both the unitive and reproductive purposes of sex with a female who only consents to the unitive purpose. So, it is like a partial rape, because he forces part of himself upon her, but not the other part. It is the most common type of fornication. All types of fornication are mortal sins.

Is it a true story?
Yes and no. It is a scenario that happens all the time in many places around the earth, but with one exception. The thought of getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life is not occurring to the male. As evil as it may be, it does tend to take away all her excuses, irrational as they might be, for getting an abortion.

I disagree on the “partial rape” statement. Any 5th grader knows how babies are made. If a woman willingly has sex with a man, even using birth control, she knows she is risking pregnancy. Birth control fails occasionally. Believe me, I know. I have two artificial birth control babies that I absolutely did not want to become pregnant with. Unless the woman was absolutely unwilling to have sex and was actually raped, the man did NOT force any part of himself on the woman. She consents to sex, she consents to the possibility of pregnancy no matter how small or large that possibility is.

And, yes, this kind of thing does happen. My ex was a real piece of work. He had 3 children by 3 different mothers before I met him. He financially and in all other ways abandoned those children. Defied court orders of support, in and out of jail for it, etc.

I accidentally got pregnant, married him, and accidentally got pregnant again 4 years into the marriage. Two separate forms of birth control failed me. I was also aware that my ex was unfaithful and could easily impregnate another woman making the situation much worse for all of us…me, my kids, the other kids and the possible future child he would also abandon and not care for.

Because I knew the marriage was close to an end and I desperately did NOT want to have another child with my ex, I seriously thought about abortion. We agreed I would have the baby (which I was going to do anyways by that time, but he did not know that) and he would have a vasectomy before the child’s birth. Idea being there would be no risk of him impregnating me again or him impregnating anyone else during or after the marriage.

 

[RoseMary131]

This is a very deep theological question. This is why we should pray before answering. I know that the Magisterium has forbidden abortion and sterilization from the very beginning, but I also know that the Magisterium has never prayerfully considered this specific scenario. Again, thanks and may God bless all of you.

Would you like to present this to Pope Francis to ask him to prayerfully consider this scenario? What do you know would be his answer from his prayerful consideration?

On another note: The pregnant mother accepts to give her child life because she accepted the father’s proposal to exchange “getting a vasectomy” for “getting an abortion.” She has accepted the exchange. He follows through with the exchange. He gets a vasectomy. She does not get an abortion.

A month later, she realizes while his vas deferens can not most likely allow his sperm to travel far once they are made in his testicles, she stills has an unwanted child to give birth to and possibly raise for the next 18+ years.

Most mothers do not want to give their baby up for adoption. While it seems logical - give birth and if you don’t want to raise the baby - place the baby for adoption - that is not the real case. Most mothers seeking abortion, when given the idea - place your baby for adoption - will respond “I could never give my baby away.”

What most likely would happen in your scenario: the father has his vas deferens altered and the mother realizes - what help did I receive from his altered vas deferens?

The issues that caused panic and brought her to the solution of abortion - those issues still remain - even with his vasectomy. Now, she must face … why did I accept his exchange of getting a vasectomy in place of getting an abortion. She feels it wasn’t an equal exchange - she aborts the child.

His manipulation to keep his child in exchange for a vasectomy is foiled when she realizes an exchanged sounded good for a moment - then she realized the exchanged didn’t take away the fears of an unwanted pregnancy.

 

[Gia_B]

URGENT

Let’s say that a young man makes his girlfriend pregnant and then she schedules an appointment to get an abortion. He suddenly realizes what an evil thing he has done, and he immediately confesses his sin to God (through a priest if he is Catholic). Then he begs her to cancel her appointment, but she refuses. Then he tells her that if she will cancel her appointment, he will schedule an appointment to get a vasectomy so that she knows he will never do this wicked deed again. He also tells her that if she thinks their child would need to be given up for adoption, then he will be able to make up for it later by adopting a child or two when he is ready to marry someone. Then, she accepts his offer.

In summary, he committed a mortal sin by committing fornication. The temporal consequence of his mortal sin was that she scheduled a second mortal sin, an abortion. But he changed the temporal consequence of his mortal sin from the second mortal sin to a vasectomy. The consequences of the vasectomy was the cancellation of the second mortal sin and his child getting to live. They say that there is an exception to every rule, and we might have stumbled across one here. The following question is very important. Please pray and then answer YES or NO. Did he commit a second mortal sin by getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life?

If vasectomies weren’t the solution to abortion when you asked in 2010, what makes you think that they’ll be the answer now?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=501379

 

[runningdude]

Why is it urgent?
See “Is it a true story?” The question boils down to whether that particular thought (getting a vasectomy for the sole purpose of saving his child’s life) is an evil thought or a good thought? …Again, thanks and may God bless all of you.

You have abused the word “urgent”. Dozens, if not hundreds, of unexpected mothers and fathers have come to this forum in a real panic over whether to “abort” their child. Dozens of posters are willing to stay up all night to talk them down and save the child.

It is fundamentally unfair to portray a hypothetical question as “urgent”.

 

[jmcrae]

URGENT

Let’s say that a young man makes his girlfriend pregnant and then she schedules an appointment to get an abortion. He suddenly realizes what an evil thing he has done, and he immediately confesses his sin to God (through a priest if he is Catholic). Then he begs her to cancel her appointment, but she refuses. Then he tells her that if she will cancel her appointment, he will schedule an appointment to get a vasectomy so that she knows he will never do this wicked deed again. He also tells her that if she thinks their child would need to be given up for adoption, then he will be able to make up for it later by adopting a child or two when he is ready to marry someone. Then, she accepts his offer.

In summary, he committed a mortal sin by committing fornication. The temporal consequence of his mortal sin was that she scheduled a second mortal sin, an abortion. But he changed the temporal consequence of his mortal sin from the second mortal sin to a vasectomy. The consequences of the vasectomy was the cancellation of the second mortal sin and his child getting to live. They say that there is an exception to every rule, and we might have stumbled across one here. The following question is very important. Please pray and then answer YES or NO. Did he commit a second mortal sin by getting a vasectomy in order to save his child’s life?

The sin was to have sex outside of marriage. Being pregnant is not a sin; nor is giving birth.