Urgent Sterilization/Mortal Sin Question

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Daddyof4 said:
Hoosier, yes, this is what I struggle with. What would God say to me if I stood before Him in the Flesh? How would He want me to show my love for Him? Would He want me to make the decision to preserve myself but destroy my family (symantics, but my family will break up with this decision), or would He expect me to protect the lives of my wife and children? What about when Abraham was all set to sacrifice Isaac and God intervened at the last minute? He didn’t expect Him to sacrifice his child in the end, but was looking for loyalty and obedience. Not sure if this is the right analogy here, but this is one of the things that come to my mind.
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I was referring to something a little more biblical. Jesus addresses Love for Him several ways in the Bible. Specifically the book of John. He tells peter to feed and tend his sheep he tells all of us to keep his commands and Paul tells us to lay our lives down for our wives as Christ layed down his life for the Churcb. How do you love God, you take up your cross and follow Him, you do not automatically say that when you stand in front of God that he will have mercy on you because your cross was heavy and scary. Peter, showed this.

Pardon me for the following description. But when you stand before God, yes, He will be merciful, but picture God, crying, Jesus Himself asking you why you had to mutilate yourself and in turn, God for this purpose. You will hold your mutilation in your hands before your God. And it will hurt you, and Him. It will be your failure.
 
mommamaree - thank you for your prayers. I really need them. I know that sterilization is intrinsically evil - the act itself is intrinsically evil. But it doesn’t necessarily say what is in my heart. Take masterbation for example (forgive this example if it offends) - that act is also intrinsically evil, but there may be mitigating factors that alter the culpability of the person doing it (addiction, OCDs, etc.).

HoosierDaddy - I agree to a certain extent, but even then how do I know that He will look down on me so harshely. I can only pray and hope not. I’m trying to protect my wife and kids. I would die for them. This situation is a bummer - I never asked for it, nor do I think I’ve been neglectful or careless to find us in this situation. Maybe it’s my way of thinking but I just cant reconcile this. I’ve pretty much agreed with everything the Church has taught me - it just makes sense to me, until now.
 
Daddyof4 said:
mommamaree - thank you for your prayers. I really need them. I know that sterilization is intrinsically evil - the act itself is intrinsically evil. But it doesn’t necessarily say what is in my heart. Take masterbation for example (forgive this example if it offends) - that act is also intrinsically evil, but there may be mitigating factors that alter the culpability of the person doing it (addiction, OCDs, etc.).

HoosierDaddy - I agree to a certain extent, but even then how do I know that He will look down on me so harshely. I can only pray and hope not. I’m trying to protect my wife and kids. I would die for them. This situation is a bummer - I never asked for it, nor do I think I’ve been neglectful or careless to find us in this situation. Maybe it’s my way of thinking but I just cant reconcile this. I’ve pretty much agreed with everything the Church has taught me - it just makes sense to me, until now.
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IT saddens me to think that you have pretty much made up your mind to put even what you perceive as your wife and family ahead of God. That is a horrible thing to do. And I pray that you are somehow saved. Dying for someone else can be noble As Jesus noted. But damning yourself for someone else is wrong. Please do not go through with something that hurts you, and God for some perceived relief for your family…

I would die for my wife and kids as well. But I would do so for the BENEFIT of their souls. Not at the damnation of mine. Nor would I allow my wife to do such a thing for me… What kind of spouse would permit the damnation of the other!? As spouses it is our job to help the other get to heaven.
 
Daddyof4 said:
mommamaree - thank you for your prayers. I really need them. I know that sterilization is intrinsically evil - the act itself is intrinsically evil. But it doesn’t necessarily say what is in my heart. Take masterbation for example (forgive this example if it offends) - that act is also intrinsically evil, but there may be mitigating factors that alter the culpability of the person doing it (addiction, OCDs, etc.).

HoosierDaddy - I agree to a certain extent, but even then how do I know that He will look down on me so harshely. I can only pray and hope not. I’m trying to protect my wife and kids. I would die for them. This situation is a bummer - I never asked for it, nor do I think I’ve been neglectful or careless to find us in this situation. Maybe it’s my way of thinking but I just cant reconcile this. I’ve pretty much agreed with everything the Church has taught me - it just makes sense to me, until now.
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Your example does not offend.

God knows what is in your heart already. He sees your internal struggle, and the coercion your wife is using against you. Whenever God allows us to experience a trial, He always gives us the grace to remain faithful to Him. I suggest spending some time in Adoration, also serious ‘pour your heart out to God’ prayer, and combing through God’s Word for His Strength and Wisdom. Also, I suggest fasting one day each week for your wife and your marriage. Jesus Himself told His Apostles that some things can only be overcome by prayer and fasting. Please exhaust every resource given to you by the Church to conquer spiritual troubles. Maybe even try a novena to Our Lady, Undoer of Knots. But do not mutilate yourself at the demands of your wife. She sounds very scared and depressed and one should never make decisions with tremendous consequences while in a state of panic.

Be still. The Lord Himself will fight for you.
 
I really don’t understand why your wife thinks that YOU need to do this.

I really think it is okay to ask her that if she thinks it is fine for YOU to do this, why doesn’t she do something herself? I don’t think that would be encouraging her; it would just be asking her a question.

The things that a man can do to for birth control are very limited, but women have many options.

Since this is HER idea, and she doesn’t think it is wrong, than SHE is the one who should do something.
 
Listener said:
I really don’t understand why your wife thinks that YOU need to do this.

I really think it is okay to ask her that if she thinks it is fine for YOU to do this, why doesn’t she do something herself? I don’t think that would be encouraging her; it would just be asking her a question.

The things that a man can do to for birth control are very limited, but women have many options.

Since this is HER idea, and she doesn’t think it is wrong, than SHE is the one who should do something.
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The OP mentioned earlier that due to his wife’s medical issues, which include clotting issues, she can’t undergo surgery. (Obviously, that’s leaving aside the morality of the issue.)
 
UbiCaritas said:
The OP mentioned earlier that due to his wife’s medical issues, which include clotting issues, she can’t undergo surgery. (Obviously, that’s leaving aside the morality of the issue.)
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Without considering the morality of the situation, there are certainly a lot of ways that a woman can practice birth control without having surgery. Since the wife here is convinced that they need some form of birth control, why doesn’t SHE do it instead of trying to make her husband do it? To me, that is the elephant in the room.
 
sailor28 said:
Blessedwithfive;12682472:
I second that! I just wish there was more compassion from people here. Do what you need to do, ask forgiveness. God is merciful. I will pray for all.
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I too am surprised by the lack of ability for people to offer compassion and sympathy. Just go to the judging of his wife. My goodness, look at what she has been through. Acknowledge the gravity of the situation. CAF is full of laws but not full of the mercy. Regardless of what side of the decision you fall on this family needs compassion and empathy poured out. Just put yourself in this situation for a minute.

I am sensing the OP (sorry if I am wrong OP) is having some cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile a teaching that really does not make sense in this situation. And that God would send him to hell for it. Back when the birth control commission met in the 60’s the majority of bishops and cardinals disagreed with the ban on birth control and definitely didn’t call it an intrinsic evil. I can’t think of any other sin labeled instrinsically evil that the cardinals and the bishops at the vatican would not agree on.

All in all some compassion and empathy would make everyone sound less like pharisees. It is almost as if people don’t hear the situation being presented. God bless your wife OP It will take years to heal from the type of trauma she has. God bless your kids who you said “lost their mom” for a time. May you be surrounded with goodness and kindness and a ton of wisdom.

I would consult other sources besides, CAF, the bioethics center and EWTN.
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Sorry, but as Hossier Daddy said previously anyone who encourages the OP in sin may hold some accountability themselves for such sin. It is not morally acceptable to enoucage others in sin, even in such terrible circumstances.

I’m sorry for the OP’s situation. It is a terrible predicament to find oneself in. As the OP himself said, it is not easy. Yet while it isn’t easy, we can say that morally it is simple. Sterilisation cannot be the correct choice here. And none of us should encourage it.

I believe that is the source of the OP’s frustration with this thread. I think he wanted some assurance that he is not culpable if he goes through with this. But none of us can possibly encourage this choice, nor free him from responsibility for it (we simply don’t have any authority to do so).

It is unfair to be accused of lacking mercy or compassion because people have offered the only morally correct answers to the OP’s questions.
 
Daddyof4,
I feel so terrible for you and your wife! I’m sorry you’re in this situation.

Right now, her fear blinds her from seeing any other alternative to her well-being. Because of that, your refusal to take the “only option” may feel to her like you’re saying you don’t love her enough to protect her from this threat. Of course that’s not what you’re saying or doing, and that’s not how she would see it if she could think reasonably. It’s just how she probably feels. And the feelings that accompany the fear of suffering and death can overwhelm even the most logical, reasonable person. That’s understandable.

Despite her fears, she really needs you to rescue her, to protect her, to do what is right, even when it may hurt her feelings or make her angry. She may think she doesn’t want you to choose obedience to God over her fears. It might even make her angry enough to lash out or seek separation, but she really needs you to put God first. You know how you have to put your own oxygen mask on first, so that you’re in the position to help others? Think of avoiding sin in that way.

A wife needs her husband to love her, but not worship her (though often we imply that’s what we want). She needs him to be the spiritual leader, to be courageous and to obey God in spite of fear–even in spite of the fear that his wife might leave him if he doesn’t worship at her idol.

I know that is a LOT easier said than done, and I don’t envy any husband who is in that position. But God will give you the grace to handle whatever comes, if you let Him. Please, be strong. For your relationship with God. For your children. And for your wife.

Sin, doubt, and fear can be very difficult struggles for wives, too… we sometimes need our husbands to gently lead us toward God, away from the edge when we would walk ourselves right over the cliff because we’re so focused on other things!

Husbands, when you know what is good and right, please stand firm–even when we wives do walk (or jump!) right off the cliff (especially out of fear) by our own choices. If you can do this, then you are in a better position to rescue us or help us back up when we finally realize that we’ve fallen!

Daddyof4, I truly hope that your wife comes to the realization very soon that what she is demanding of you is not the only option. I hope and pray that she will trust in God and in you to protect her and let you lead her, and I pray that you make the right choice for your family. :gopray2:
 
Listener said:
Without considering the morality of the situation, there are certainly a lot of ways that a woman can practice birth control without having surgery. Since the wife here is convinced that they need some form of birth control, why doesn’t SHE do it instead of trying to make her husband do it? To me, that is the elephant in the room.
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Oh, I brought up this point earlier, believe me. 😉 The OP explained that his wife’s health issues preclude surgery. I’m extrapolating here, but since those issues are clotting-related, no doctor interested in keeping his/her license would prescribe hormonal birth control to the OP’s wife, as it is explicitly contra-indicated for women with clotting disorders. Female barrier methods (diaphragms and female condoms) are notoriously unreliable.
 
CatholicRaven said:
Daddyof4,
I feel so terrible for you and your wife! I’m sorry you’re in this situation.

Right now, her fear blinds her from seeing any other alternative to her well-being. Because of that, your refusal to take the “only option” may feel to her like you’re saying you don’t love her enough to protect her from this threat. Of course that’s not what you’re saying or doing, and that’s not how she would see it if she could think reasonably. It’s just how she probably feels. And the feelings that accompany the fear of suffering and death can overwhelm even the most logical, reasonable person. That’s understandable.

Despite her fears, she really needs you to rescue her, to protect her, to do what is right, even when it may hurt her feelings or make her angry. She may think she doesn’t want you to choose obedience to God over her fears. It might even make her angry enough to lash out or seek separation, but she really needs you to put God first. You know how you have to put your own oxygen mask on first, so that you’re in the position to help others? Think of avoiding sin in that way.

A wife needs her husband to love her, but not worship her (though often we imply that’s what we want). She needs him to be the spiritual leader, to be courageous and to obey God in spite of fear–even in spite of the fear that his wife might leave him if he doesn’t worship at her idol.

I know that is a LOT easier said than done, and I don’t envy any husband who is in that position. But God will give you the grace to handle whatever comes, if you let Him. Please, be strong. For your relationship with God. For your children. And for your wife.

Sin, doubt, and fear can be very difficult struggles for wives, too… we sometimes need our husbands to gently lead us toward God, away from the edge when we would walk ourselves right over the cliff because we’re so focused on other things!

Husbands, when you know what is good and right, please stand firm–even when we wives do walk (or jump!) right off the cliff (especially out of fear) by our own choices. If you can do this, then you are in a better position to rescue us or help us back up when we finally realize that we’ve fallen!

Daddyof4, I truly hope that your wife comes to the realization very soon that what she is demanding of you is not the only option. I hope and pray that she will trust in God and in you to protect her and let you lead her, and I pray that you make the right choice for your family. :gopray2:
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Well said. And I agree, easier said then done, but well said nonetheless.👍
 
Daddyof4–
God bless you and your wife and children. My husband and I haven’t been able to conceive, so I know the blessing it must be.

I am deeply sorry for what you are going through. I agree with other members that there is a lot of fear involved in your wife’s reaction and that she is acting out of that fear. The amount of stress you have both had to endure has taken a great toll that, even after 10 months, is not resolved. Right now I’m sure she is exhibiting all or nothing thinking, at which she can’t consider that sexual intimacy is possible if only a few times a month (better than complete abstinence, right?) or being open to counseling again (did you only go once before or a period of time?)

Worst case scenario…you and your wife separate for a time because she makes good on her threat.

You don’t agree to a divorce. While you are separated, time passes, allowing for the opportunity for (hopefully) more rational thought. In that time, you are both celibate, thus, no pregnancy. You spend that time praying and fasting for this situation. Maybe, just maybe, with time and God’s grace, there is healing and you will both come to a resolution to trust God with your fertility, family, and marriage.

I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

I recommend looking into retrovaille or The Alexander House. Also, there are NFP support groups and forums for all trying to live by the Church’s teachings, even in difficult situations where a huge leap of faith and trust is required.

Blessings,
Tezza
 
Daddyof4,

I know you are going through quite an ordeal and experiencing a lot of pressure. I would caution you to be attentive to seemingly hidden repercussions of such a decision. If it were me and my wife was pressuring me to do this and I finally relented, I would be plagued by guilt and also resentment towards my wife. I don’t see how I could see her in the same way after she pressured me into acting against my conscience. That is going to have implications in a wide range of ways (e.g. becoming distant, more irritable, less patient with the wife and the kids, etc.).

I’m not trying to bring you down. :o I simply want to encourage you to think it through. If you think that getting the vasectomy is going to make things all go happily back to normal, I think you will be in for a most unpleasant surprise.
 
I know that this is a very sad situation, and that we should be sympathetic. However, sympathy doesn’t solve problems.

This guy’s wife seems very demanding to me. Threatening divorce if he doesn’t get a vasectomy? That sounds pretty extreme to me.

It says that she was bugging him about this already after the third child. It also says that she had Cesarean sections during each birth. Well, if she wants to go against church teaching, why didn’t she have them tie her tubes during the last surgery? Why is she dumping all of her problems on her husband?

If she gets a divorce, what is she going to do then?

I’m sorry, (and this may sound unsympathetic), but this woman seems very demanding to me!

Whatever this guy decides to do, it should be his own decision, and not his wife’s.
 
What a terribly difficult and stressful problem! I feel so much for you… what a heavy cross!

I believe that in these most difficult situations we are being called to pray harder, pray more and pray for help and guidance.

God does not want you to sin, He wants you to be a saint, along with your wife and children.
That is our only purpose in life, and these heavy crosses He sends are a means to become a saint and get closer to Almighty God. Don’t lose sight of Jesus on the Cross.

Your only option right now is to pray.
Go to Adoration, go to confession regularly and put this in Gods hands with childlike trust and He will bring about good.

This is a beautiful novena, originating from a couple who were about to divorce.

theholyrosary.org/maryundoerknots

It may bring your answer.

I will pray for you.

God bless
 
I am in a similar situation in the fact that I have 4 children and another pregnancy will likely cause death to me and baby. My husband and I have only been married for 5 years. our children are ages 4, 2, 1, and newborn. We feel that NFP is too risky, so we have chosen to obstain, until menopause. I am 36, so this could be 10-15 years. We are both very sad to lose the physical intimacy in our marriage, especially after only 5 years of having it. However, we are offering it up for the souls in purgatory and for our own sins. Any sterilization is out of the question. it is a mortal sin. even being truly sorry later would require reversal of the procedure. your wife threatening divorce if you don’t do it is also extremely grave. she is not concerned about your soul but about her own selfish desires. you should go speak to a priest together immediately. abstinence can be a beautiful sacrifice. much spiritual good comes from fasting. you are called to be the spiritual leader of your family. do not give in to your wife’s threats.
 
jjmcsoley said:
it is a mortal sin. even being truly sorry later would require reversal of the procedure.
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Not true in the least.

The Church has never said to be truly sorry you need to reverse any procedure.

A person could be truly sorry she had an abortion…but she can never reverse this procedure.
Something like a hysterectomy…done purely for sterilization purposes…can never be reversed.

Even attempting a tubal ligation reversal is not foolproof and has a high chance of failing to work when reversed.

Same goes for a vasectomy.

The general rule is that once you’ve been sterilized…you can’t undo the procedure.
 
I believe the church teaches that you must do what you can to make right the wrong, and you must fully intend to never do it again. If a procedure can be reversed, it should be. Otherwise, you still would not be truly open to life. If it is not reversible, ok. The bottom line is that it is all about intention. Choosing mortal sin because you can just confess it later doesn’t mean it is a good confession.
 
jjmcsoley said:
I believe the church teaches that you must do what you can to make right the wrong, and you must fully intend to never do it again. If a procedure can be reversed, it should be. Otherwise, you still would not be truly open to life. If it is not reversible, ok. The bottom line is that it is all about intention. Choosing mortal sin because you can just confess it later doesn’t mean it is a good confession.
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That may be what you believe…but that isn’t what the Church teaches.

The Church does not require that you need to get a reversal. It is not a prerequisite for a good confession.
 
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