US Anglican parishes convert to the Catholic Church en masse...
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revert_jen
Guest
Great news! But I did notice one piece of obvious bias in the article:
Welcome to all the new Catholics!!!
–Jen
“Secretive?” Any reason they couldn’t have used “secret” or, since it can’t be much of a secret as the newspaper knows about it, “private?”
Welcome to all the new Catholics!!!
–Jen
T
TobyLue
Guest
What I have’nt heard nor read is if these Bishop and priest will have to be ordained into the Catholic Church since the CC does not recognise the validity of their ordination. Will these Bishops have to be ordained priest first then elevated to Bishop?
Also will regular Catholic be able to attend these church and become members of their congreations/parishes if they like the liturgy better than they do the NO?
How will this affect the current AU parishes? Will they be able to request to become members of those particular diocese? Will the Liturgy and the BOW of the AU be any different than what the Anglican Converts will have?
I’m sure all of this needs to be worked out.
Also will regular Catholic be able to attend these church and become members of their congreations/parishes if they like the liturgy better than they do the NO?
How will this affect the current AU parishes? Will they be able to request to become members of those particular diocese? Will the Liturgy and the BOW of the AU be any different than what the Anglican Converts will have?
I’m sure all of this needs to be worked out.
Z
Zach82
Guest
The details of the pope’s deal have yet to be worked out. Supposedly married priests can be reordained into Catholicism, but bishops will have to be single. Whether they will get their own bishops or not remains to be seen. Most likely they will be able to use a modified form of the Book of Common Prayer. Roman Catholics will naturally be able to go to Anglican Use parishes, but converting to Anglican Use will not be a loop hole for Roman priests to marry. So I hear, anyway.
Zach
Zach
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Father Mark Brown, a member of this forum, would be the best person to ask. He’s the man when it comes to this stuff. He is going through the process and knows it well.
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chris_molter
Guest
The scuttlebut is that all those ordained as Anglicans will be re-ordained (no word on any possible “conditional” ordinations) as Priests.
Any Catholic may attend these parishes and fulfill their Sunday obligations (once everything is done, obviously). I’m not sure Latin Rite Catholics can join those parishes officially as members unless they were also Anglicans who came into full communion.
I would think the AU parishes would be moved into the Ordinariate (these will not be Dioceses). The question of liturgical books has yet to be hammered out, although I doubt the BDW will be adopted by the incoming TAC folks.
Indeed. It’s very exciting stuff, but I’m sure it’s going to feel like it’s taking forever!
A good place for info, btw: www.theanglocatholic.com
C
Contarini
Guest
Interesting. My former rector (the priest in whose parish I was confirmed) is now part of the ACA. I know he has wanted to be in communion with Rome for years, but I wonder how he will be affected by this agreement, since he is divorced and remarried.
I see no statement anywhere describing how such priests (I’m sure he isn’t the only one) will be received–I would presume that they’ll have to give up the priesthood, but maybe not if they can get annulments?
Edwin
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MarkBrown
Guest
Thanks for the plug gurney…hope I can live up to it!
Edwin. in your former Priest situation his first marriage causes an “irregularity”. Part VI paragrahp 1 of the Anglicanorum Coetibus addresses his situation. Before he could be ordained there will be an investigation of the first marriage for an annullment, if possible. Until then, he will not be a candidate for ordination.
Within the Anglicans coming to Rome are Bishops and Priest who were Catholics. They will not be allowed to be Bishops or Priest in the AU. I know of Bishops and ArchBishops who will be laity once they lead their dioceses into communion with Rome.
The Ordinariate will be like the military ordinariate. It will have an Ordinary who will serve and function as a Bishop administratively, but not sacramentally as a Bishop. They will not be able to ordain. But this is still in the air, as Rome has not spoken.
None of the Anglican Bishops will be allowed to be Bishops if they are married.
Who can join the AU? Any Catholics who were former Anglicans or family members of former Anglicans. My wife who is a cradle Catholic can be a member of the AU. Catholics can worship and recieve sacraments from the AU.
The Rector of Lady of the Atonement , Fr. Phillips, will be on EWTN’s Journey Home May 5th talking about this subject. If possible listen to the show. Fr. Phillips is very knowledgeable about this process, he helped the Anglican Bishops form their response to the Holy See in March.
Fr. Phillips’ Parish and the other AU will be released by their Bishops to the Ordinariate. On his website he had an article covering this. Seems their Bishops will be doing everything possible to help this process.
The only place I have heard about where Catholic Bishops are cause problems has been in Great Britian. But the Holy Father called them to the Vaitcan earlier this year and they have toned it down. CoE Bishop Broadhurst was in the States in March and attended the HOB for the ACA when they issued their response. FIF-UK is waiting for the July Synod, if I read the writtings of the good Bishop correctly, many within that organization are ready to come to Rome as they see that the Snyod will ok Female Bishops this July and will make the FIF-UK parishes accept them as their Bishops vice the prior arrangement of not forcing WO on the FIF-UK.
Which liturgy will the AU be using? Unknown at this time. I like the current AU liturgy, go to the Atonement on line website to what a Mass. Many in the TAC use an Anglican Missal and I used the 28 BCP. An adjustment for Anglicans will be to use just one liturgy, instead of the many many many different ones now in use.
Will there be a huge exodus from Anglicanism? Not at first. Anglicans have heard too many Bishops give us the newest fix for the massive problems in the Communion. None have worked. Once they see it working, they will join. Anglican laity and religious have been burned too many times by their leaders. I know the AU in the States are getting many calls from Priests etc who are not going public. There is more interest in this than is know publically, though now I guess it is public. My own Diocese Bishop was ok with the first one, then another priest and another, that when I came along the reception was very cool. My diocese is only 24 parishes and missions. 3 priest are leaving with 2 in the wings to leave. My Bishop is looking to lose 20% of his priests as early as this summer. While not big for the Catholic Church, this is huge for my jurisdiction which is part of the ACNA.
As of now there are 8 Bishops and 1 ArchBishop in the States, 3 Bishops in Canada, 1-2 in South America, 1 ArchBishop and 1-2 Bishops in Australia, Bishop of the Torres STraits and 1 UK Bishop who have or are in the process of asking for the Ordinariate to be established (this is the first wave of possibly 200 parish, I do not know the total number yet). Other UK Bishops are waiting for the July Synod. The Anglican Bishops in India have yet to speak, but indications are they will seek communion. Not much movement in Africa where most of them are evangical in theology, though with ++Orombi’s recent letter to Cantur, the Anglican Communion is set to split into pieces so who knows what will happen.
A good website www.theanglocatholic.com AC and the norms can be read there or on the Vatican website. Contrary to some pundits, reading the norms and AC will answer your questions.
Oh yes ordination. Still up in the air. Conditional, recieved etc. Anglicans are ordained with many different liturgies, is there the “Dutch Touch”, PNCC or Old Catholic in the Bishops succession? Depends how Rome wants to handle it. the bottom line, Rome has to be sure, I do not blame them…Anglican ordinations can be messy with psuedo bishops (not just women) out there ordaining everything moving to some priest who have no theology or seminary training who read for orders. Not that they are bad priest, just may not fit the requirements of the Latin Rite.
About the laity? It will be corporate. Most of the Anglicans coming have already be catechized and Rome does not want to do it individually. So it maybe the local Diocesean Bishop will go hear the profession of Faith and recieve the parish into communion. Again not set in stone. Rome is not looking to slow the process down, so how can it be done with in the Canons or can a special dispensation be given?
When will all this be done? Watch for when the Anglican Bishops are called to Rome. soon after the Ordinariates in the various countries will be created. It is hoped all this will happen by the June-Aug 2010 time frame.
So we wait for Rome to speak.
Fr.Mark
Edwin. in your former Priest situation his first marriage causes an “irregularity”. Part VI paragrahp 1 of the Anglicanorum Coetibus addresses his situation. Before he could be ordained there will be an investigation of the first marriage for an annullment, if possible. Until then, he will not be a candidate for ordination.
Within the Anglicans coming to Rome are Bishops and Priest who were Catholics. They will not be allowed to be Bishops or Priest in the AU. I know of Bishops and ArchBishops who will be laity once they lead their dioceses into communion with Rome.
The Ordinariate will be like the military ordinariate. It will have an Ordinary who will serve and function as a Bishop administratively, but not sacramentally as a Bishop. They will not be able to ordain. But this is still in the air, as Rome has not spoken.
None of the Anglican Bishops will be allowed to be Bishops if they are married.
Who can join the AU? Any Catholics who were former Anglicans or family members of former Anglicans. My wife who is a cradle Catholic can be a member of the AU. Catholics can worship and recieve sacraments from the AU.
The Rector of Lady of the Atonement , Fr. Phillips, will be on EWTN’s Journey Home May 5th talking about this subject. If possible listen to the show. Fr. Phillips is very knowledgeable about this process, he helped the Anglican Bishops form their response to the Holy See in March.
Fr. Phillips’ Parish and the other AU will be released by their Bishops to the Ordinariate. On his website he had an article covering this. Seems their Bishops will be doing everything possible to help this process.
The only place I have heard about where Catholic Bishops are cause problems has been in Great Britian. But the Holy Father called them to the Vaitcan earlier this year and they have toned it down. CoE Bishop Broadhurst was in the States in March and attended the HOB for the ACA when they issued their response. FIF-UK is waiting for the July Synod, if I read the writtings of the good Bishop correctly, many within that organization are ready to come to Rome as they see that the Snyod will ok Female Bishops this July and will make the FIF-UK parishes accept them as their Bishops vice the prior arrangement of not forcing WO on the FIF-UK.
Which liturgy will the AU be using? Unknown at this time. I like the current AU liturgy, go to the Atonement on line website to what a Mass. Many in the TAC use an Anglican Missal and I used the 28 BCP. An adjustment for Anglicans will be to use just one liturgy, instead of the many many many different ones now in use.
Will there be a huge exodus from Anglicanism? Not at first. Anglicans have heard too many Bishops give us the newest fix for the massive problems in the Communion. None have worked. Once they see it working, they will join. Anglican laity and religious have been burned too many times by their leaders. I know the AU in the States are getting many calls from Priests etc who are not going public. There is more interest in this than is know publically, though now I guess it is public. My own Diocese Bishop was ok with the first one, then another priest and another, that when I came along the reception was very cool. My diocese is only 24 parishes and missions. 3 priest are leaving with 2 in the wings to leave. My Bishop is looking to lose 20% of his priests as early as this summer. While not big for the Catholic Church, this is huge for my jurisdiction which is part of the ACNA.
As of now there are 8 Bishops and 1 ArchBishop in the States, 3 Bishops in Canada, 1-2 in South America, 1 ArchBishop and 1-2 Bishops in Australia, Bishop of the Torres STraits and 1 UK Bishop who have or are in the process of asking for the Ordinariate to be established (this is the first wave of possibly 200 parish, I do not know the total number yet). Other UK Bishops are waiting for the July Synod. The Anglican Bishops in India have yet to speak, but indications are they will seek communion. Not much movement in Africa where most of them are evangical in theology, though with ++Orombi’s recent letter to Cantur, the Anglican Communion is set to split into pieces so who knows what will happen.
A good website www.theanglocatholic.com AC and the norms can be read there or on the Vatican website. Contrary to some pundits, reading the norms and AC will answer your questions.
Oh yes ordination. Still up in the air. Conditional, recieved etc. Anglicans are ordained with many different liturgies, is there the “Dutch Touch”, PNCC or Old Catholic in the Bishops succession? Depends how Rome wants to handle it. the bottom line, Rome has to be sure, I do not blame them…Anglican ordinations can be messy with psuedo bishops (not just women) out there ordaining everything moving to some priest who have no theology or seminary training who read for orders. Not that they are bad priest, just may not fit the requirements of the Latin Rite.
About the laity? It will be corporate. Most of the Anglicans coming have already be catechized and Rome does not want to do it individually. So it maybe the local Diocesean Bishop will go hear the profession of Faith and recieve the parish into communion. Again not set in stone. Rome is not looking to slow the process down, so how can it be done with in the Canons or can a special dispensation be given?
When will all this be done? Watch for when the Anglican Bishops are called to Rome. soon after the Ordinariates in the various countries will be created. It is hoped all this will happen by the June-Aug 2010 time frame.
So we wait for Rome to speak.
Fr.Mark
C
chris_molter
Guest
WOW. That would be warp factor 10 for the Vatican. I’d be happily shocked if it happens!
Thanks for the info!
M
MarkBrown
Guest
Chris,WOW. That would be warp factor 10 for the Vatican. I’d be happily shocked if it happens!
The process has been on going since the early 90’s. What is being seen here is the end of the process. The Anglicans approached John Paul II. So the process is approaching 20 years…still a fast process when it comes to the movement of the wheels of the Vatican. Just giving the time frame to add some perspective.
Fr.Mark
C
chris_molter
Guest
Very true. I suppose we, on the outside, don’t always have full realization of all the activity going on if it’s not reported out. Like the whole duck thing… calm above the water but paddling like hell underneath. Very exciting to see (and join in) the fruition of all that work.
J
Janet1983
Guest
Has there been any updates on this meanwhile?
M
MarkBrown
Guest
In March 2010, Anglican Bishops in the States formally asked for the Ordinariate to be established. Canadian and Australia Bishops asked prior. The TAC jurisdiction in Great Britian has asked, NOT the Church of England. Torres Straits are in the process and I think some Latin American Bishops are in the process.
The American, Australian, Canadians and English are waiting on the Vatican to respond.
Once the Vatican responds, the Canons of the Anglican Church requires a Synod to formally inform the laity. At least what I have been told about the TAC. The canons of each Anglican Jurisdiction vary in some degree or degrees. So each jurisdiction will have to follow their current Canons until reception into the Church. As to time frames, months not days, or years. But nothing can go forward until the Vatican responds.
There are many rumors out there, which I will not repeat as it will just confuse the issue. Which is why the rumors usually are generated in the first place.
Fr. Mark
The American, Australian, Canadians and English are waiting on the Vatican to respond.
Once the Vatican responds, the Canons of the Anglican Church requires a Synod to formally inform the laity. At least what I have been told about the TAC. The canons of each Anglican Jurisdiction vary in some degree or degrees. So each jurisdiction will have to follow their current Canons until reception into the Church. As to time frames, months not days, or years. But nothing can go forward until the Vatican responds.
There are many rumors out there, which I will not repeat as it will just confuse the issue. Which is why the rumors usually are generated in the first place.
Fr. Mark
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