US Bishops Conference on Homosexuality, Communion, Contraception

[fix]

So ABC does exclude you.

So ABC doesn’t exclude you.

So, if enough Catholics reject the Pope’s authority on a particular subject it is nolonger a sin? It becomes a “pastoral problem”?

Nohome

Thanks for seeing my point. In one respect I am glad the bishops are starting to make these issues more clear to us, but as we see from the link there will be the appearance of wiggle room I am afraid.

 

[Tom317]

There are other reasons for “perfectly” spaced children. Sometimes a woman has had miscarriages or other problems. Please don’t judge on the spacing of the living children. There are many of us that will meet those that are with God when we join them.

No-one here can read the hearts of Catholic couples and the reasons they have for spacing children. The Church allows the use of NFP in order to give couples a tool in these matters. However, I think the point is that the vast majority of Catholic couples bear 1-3 children, which means they are either using ABC or they are using NFP as a contraceptive, or the husbands of this modern have managed to learn self control like no generation before them has.

ABC is a huge problem, and it often leads to slaughter of the unborn, it is something I wish the Church would face head-on and I pray they will soon. This nation’s many problems, and the many problems of the world, would disappear if Catholics became truly Catholic again.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Tom317 I agree with you. But to blanketly state that ABC is being used by almost everyone is wrong. The paint brush is way to large.

There are so many other reasons why families are smaller now. Yes ABC is one of them. Age or marriage is another. Fertility problems related to society is still another. And yes just maybe with men and women both working they are just way tooooo tired to have sex.

Yet, when the people in charge of the local church say nothing about those that are in public service and dissent (sin) with Holy Mother Church’s moral code, how do you expect the luke-warm, poorly educated members of the congregation to behave?

Remember that many Catholic families no longer send their children to CCD after they are confirmed and receive First Holy Communion.

 

[Nohome]

Thanks for seeing my point. In one respect I am glad the bishops are starting to make these issues more clear to us, but as we see from the link there will be the appearance of wiggle room I am afraid.

You’re welcome.

I don’t understand why they would choose to separate ABC from abortion. Unless they fear that ABC is so universaly accepted that linking it to abortion would somhow increase its acceptance too? Merely speculation on my part as I wasn’t invited to the meeting.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

Yet, when the people in charge of the local church say nothing about those that are in public service and dissent (sin) with Holy Mother Church’s moral code, how do you expect the luke-warm, poorly educated members of the congregation to behave?

You will have to wait until Sunday for me to report back, but I am almost certain that our Priest will not even mention that these three documents were published. I see this in almost reverse of what you have stated. If the local church says nothing to the luke-warm, poorly educated members of the congregation, how do you expect those that are in public service to behave? After all, they are merely members of said luke-warm congregation.

Denying Eucharist to a public official will change nothing. If anything it will cause more scandal in the popular media. Start at the root of the problem, a poorly educated Catholic community.

Nohome

 

[Tom317]

Tom317 I agree with you. But to blanketly state that ABC is being used by almost everyone is wrong. The paint brush is way to large.

There are so many other reasons why families are smaller now. Yes ABC is one of them. Age or marriage is another. Fertility problems related to society is still another. And yes just maybe with men and women both working they are just way tooooo tired to have sex.

Yet, when the people in charge of the local church say nothing about those that are in public service and dissent (sin) with Holy Mother Church’s moral code, how do you expect the luke-warm, poorly educated members of the congregation to behave?

Remember that many Catholic families no longer send their children to CCD after they are confirmed and receive First Holy Communion.

You make many good points.

Just two generations ago Catholic families had 5-10 kids, now they have 1-3, that is a huge drop, and while there are certainly underlying legitimate reasons, it also is clear that ABC is being used quite extensively by Catholics. There are plenty of surveys that reflect Catholics using ABC in huge percentages…it is not debatable that a vast majority of Catholics contracept life–sadly.

 

[Kaily]

You will have to wait until Sunday for me to report back, but I am almost certain that our Priest will not even mention that these three documents were published. I see this in almost reverse of what you have stated. If the local church says nothing to the luke-warm, poorly educated members of the congregation, how do you expect those that are in public service to behave? After all, they are merely members of said luke-warm congregation.

Denying Eucharist to a public official will change nothing. If anything it will cause more scandal in the popular media. Start at the root of the problem, a poorly educated Catholic community.

Nohome

This is sooo true! I just went to the link to read the guidelines on receiving Communion and nope, it doesn’t even mention Birth Control! Why is that??
Since its not listed in there, people are still not going to see Contraceptive as inherently evil and sinful. And I suspect the same from the Church I’m registered at, we won’t even here that these guidlines are out.

:banghead:

 

[Richardols]

Just two generations ago Catholic families had 5-10 kids

Even one generation ago. My parents had four children, my wife’s had four, (all in the 1940s) and we had five children (1971-1983). I don’t recall, as a kid, any families with more than six kids, though.

 

[Tom317]

Even one generation ago. My parents had four children, my wife’s had four, (all in the 1940s) and we had five children (1971-1983). I don’t recall, as a kid, any families with more than six kids, though.

I agree. I was counting a generation as 20 years.

 

[Tom317]

Even one generation ago. My parents had four children, my wife’s had four, (all in the 1940s) and we had five children (1971-1983). I don’t recall, as a kid, any families with more than six kids, though.

BTW, I was surrounded by large families when I was a kid. 8-10 was not unusual.

 

[Nohome]

Even one generation ago. My parents had four children, my wife’s had four, (all in the 1940s) and we had five children (1971-1983). I don’t recall, as a kid, any families with more than six kids, though.

I grew up in the late 60’s. Most families had four children, a fair proportion had 6 to 8. One had 14, but never all under one roof at one time. They had kids in diapers and college at the same time!

Nohome

 

[braddock]

Why would one who publicly diagreed with the Church on these three issues want to go to communion? Why would they want to remain Catholic?

 

[Nohome]

Why would one who publicly diagreed with the Church on these three issues want to go to communion? Why would they want to remain Catholic?

Communion? You’ve got me.

Remain Catholic? It’s sort of impossible to stop being Catholic. Just like friends that I have living in Japan remain American in spite of their new found citizenship. There is a cultural aspect to the church that one can’t really leave.

Nohome

 

[kim3260]

I grew up in the late 60’s. Most families had four children, a fair proportion had 6 to 8. One had 14, but never all under one roof at one time. They had kids in diapers and college at the same time!

Nohome

I myself had 5 children(June 1981-Dec 1988) we never even used NFP. The only thing I did was breastfeed. When our youngest was 16 months my husband had a serious farming accident that left him unable to have more children. Unless you lived in my area in 1990 and read the paper about his accident, you might have assumed we must have gotten “fixed” following the last baby, (actually the paper of course did not metion personal injuries)
I never ever will make a judgement on any couple and I hope people will just take care of their own business and not look at how the “Jones Family” only has 2 kids, there maybe a very good reason why

 

[Nohome]

I never ever will make a judgement on any couple and I hope people will just take care of their own business and not look at how the “Jones Family” only has 2 kids, there maybe a very good reason why

I challenge you to go back and read this thread. Nobody ever made accusations about any individual families. Statements on generalities were made, ones that are impossible to refute. The bishops themselves acknowledge that NFP is used by less than 4% of married Catholics of child bearing age.

Take care of their own business? In my diocese we bury more Catholics than we baptize. Parish closures and clustering is very common. We were just told we will have between 50 and 60 priests in the archdiocese by 2016. The fate of the faith is in jepardy. This is everybody’s business.

Nohome