US military army chaplains vs. UK army chaplains

[Cristiano]

I am not sure where to post this thread but this is the closest forum that I can think of. I understand that in the USA the chaplains (e.g. army) beside being spiritual leaders they also have a military rank and that they can/should get promoted to higher ranks with time. My understanding is that in the UK armed forces (e.g. navy) the military chaplain dos not have any specific rank but he automatically acquires the rank of the person that he is talking too. For example if a US chaplain, that is a captain, talks to a private then he is the superior but when he talks to a general he is a subordinate. However the UK chaplain when he talks to a private is automatically a private thus a peer and when he talks to an admiral he is an admiral thus both of them being peers.
I wonder if anyone knows if this understanding is either correct or wrong and if it could apply to other armies in the world?

 

[YoungTradCath]

US chaplains hold rank like any other officer, Second Lieutenant through Major General (I think that’s the highest it goes for chaplains) or, in the Navy, Ensign through Rear Admiral. And yes, Catholic chaplains can make some very huge bank in the military, relatively speaking.

 

[FrDavid96]

I am not sure where to post this thread but this is the closest forum that I can think of. I understand that in the USA the chaplains (e.g. army) beside being spiritual leaders they also have a military rank and that they can/should get promoted to higher ranks with time. My understanding is that in the UK armed forces (e.g. navy) the military chaplain dos not have any specific rank but he automatically acquires the rank of the person that he is talking too. For example if a US chaplain, that is a captain, talks to a private then he is the superior but when he talks to a general he is a subordinate. However the UK chaplain when he talks to a private is automatically a private thus a peer and when he talks to an admiral he is an admiral thus both of them being peers.
I wonder if anyone knows if this understanding is either correct or wrong and if it could apply to other armies in the world?

Yes. True for both the US and UK.

To temper the rank issue (for the US) though, the Chaplain office is more important than the rank. Just for illustration, chaplains list their military rank within parentheses.

A chaplain who is a captain would be
CH (CPT) John Doe or Chaplain (Captain) John Doe

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think that chaplains and medical personnel in the U.S. military have a “courtesy” rank. That is they have a rank and receive treatment equivalent to that rank, but have no command authority.

My only experience with this was when I took the Air War College by seminar at the base where I was working. We had a nurse, who held the rank of colonel. As highest ranking officer, she took charge of the seminar, and did a great job. We later were told that this was incorrect. The leader should have been a regular officer.

As a civil service employee, I was granted certain privileges, such as attending the Air War College Seminar, to which military of the equivalent grade were entitled.

 

[Batfink]

I don’t know for sure, but my understanding of the Royal Navy was that although chaplains have no official rank, they are commissioned officers and therefore it would be incorrect to say that they become a ‘private’ (although that’s not a navy rank) when talking to one. I believe that they would always rank as an officer, although you may be right that the grade of officer changes in relation to other officers they’re with.

I don’t know about the army or air force.

 

[PacoG]

What rank does the Archbishop for the Archdiocese for the U.S. Military Services hold? In what branch is he?

How about his auxillary bishops?

Are those bishops addressed as “Your Excellency” or as “Sir?”

If the archbishop or his auxillaries get translated to another diocese, do they lose their military rank or are they listed as retired U.S. military?

 

[FrDavid96]

What rank does the Archbishop for the Archdiocese for the U.S. Military Services hold? In what branch is he?

How about his auxillary bishops?

Are those bishops addressed as “Your Excellency” or as “Sir?”

If the archbishop or his auxillaries get translated to another diocese, do they lose their military rank or are they listed as retired U.S. military?

The office of Archbishop for the Military Archdiocese carries with it no military rank. He is not a member of the military–not by virtue of his office as bishop. However, they are usually retired chaplains, so they do continue to hold their retired rank. Same with the auxiliary bishops.

They are addressed as “Your Excellency” in an ecclesial or civilian context. However, if they were to don a military uniform (as retirees, they’re entitled to do so) in a military context they would be addressed as “Chaplain” or alternately as “sir” but usually not by rank.

Although chaplains are addressed as “Chaplain” the exception is Catholic priests, who are still called “Father.” This is not a matter of regulation, but of custom.

 

[Brendan]

The office of Archbishop for the Military Archdiocese carries with it no military rank. He is not a member of the military–not by virtue of his office as bishop. However, they are usually retired chaplains, so they do continue to hold their retired rank. Same with the auxiliary bishops.

They are addressed as “Your Excellency” in an ecclesial or civilian context. However, if they were to don a military uniform (as retirees, they’re entitled to do so) in a military context they would be addressed as “Chaplain” or alternately as “sir” but usually not by rank.

Although chaplains are addressed as “Chaplain” the exception is Catholic priests, who are still called “Father.” This is not a matter of regulation, but of custom.

I remember going on a weekend retreat led by Bishop Jack Kaising, who was an auxiliary bishop in the Archdiocese of the Military. He had the rank of full Colonel.

He told us " You may address me as ‘Bishop’, ‘Colonel’, or ‘sir’… or pretty much anything except ‘old fart’"

I think that the Archbishop, if they did come initally from the Chaplaincy Corp, they will be given a civilian GS rank. That entitles them to have base access, base housing, use military transport, etc…

I would presume that the Archbishop carries GS-16 or greater ( Brig Gen equivelent or greater)

 

[FrDavid96]

I remember going on a weekend retreat led by Bishop Jack Kaising, who was an auxiliary bishop in the Archdiocese of the Military. He had the rank of full Colonel.

He told us " You may address me as ‘Bishop’, ‘Colonel’, or ‘sir’… or pretty much anything except ‘old fart’"

I think that the Archbishop, if they did come initally from the Chaplaincy Corp, they will be given a civilian GS rank. That entitles them to have base access, base housing, use military transport, etc…

I would presume that the Archbishop carries GS-16 or greater ( Brig Gen equivelent or greater)

Actually, they cannot be given a GS rating because they are not government employees. It’s an important distinction. From the military’s perspective the Archdiocese is an “endorsing agency” that exists to approve (and supervise from a ministry perspective) the Chaplains.

The bishops are not given any kind of honorary rank because the Archdiocese is not a part of the military in any way. The Archdiocese works with the military, but is not a part of it.

As retirees, they’re still entitled to military benefits like PX access, etc. etc.

The bishops in the Archdiocese might be retired, reservists, reserve on active duty, or even active duty. I might not have been too clear on that in my last post.

The point though is that the Military Archdiocese and the military itself are separate entities that cooperate with each other but neither one has any authority over the other. Chaplains as individuals answer to both.

Maybe a different way to explain this is that the Archdiocese is not part of the Dept. of Defense.

 

[dochawk]

. However the UK chaplain when he talks to a private is automatically a private thus a peer and when he talks to an admiral he is an admiral thus both of them being peers.

This has got to be rough on the paymaster . . . 37 minutes as a private, an hour and a half as a colonel, 42 minutes as a sergeant, and then he went to lunch . . .

I think that chaplains and medical personnel in the U.S. military have a “courtesy” rank. That is they have a rank and receive treatment equivalent to that rank, but have no command authority.

. . .
The leader should have been a regular officer.

No, you don’t have it quite right.

what you’re calling “regular” wouldw be “unrestricted line officer,” who can receive any assignment. Chaplains, lawyers, and the like are staff officers, who hold the actual rank, but cannot command comment units (or any outside of their staff). (there a also restricted line officers, but I don’t remember much about them. also, in the USMC, the JAG [lawyer] at unrestricted line–and if I’d learned that a couple of years earlier, I would have been one!)

hawk

 

[Joe_Kelley]

This has got to be rough on the paymaster . . . 37 minutes as a private, an hour and a half as a colonel, 42 minutes as a sergeant, and then he went to lunch . . .

No, you don’t have it quite right.

what you’re calling “regular” wouldw be “unrestricted line officer,” who can receive any assignment. Chaplains, lawyers, and the like are staff officers, who hold the actual rank, but cannot command comment units (or any outside of their staff). (there a also restricted line officers, but I don’t remember much about them. also, in the USMC, the JAG [lawyer] at unrestricted line–and if I’d learned that a couple of years earlier, I would have been one!)

hawk

Thanks. It was a long time back and I couldn’t remember all the details. One advantage of the forum. If I can remember half the story there is always someone who will kindly fill in the rest.

 

[Phemie]

Although chaplains are addressed as “Chaplain” the exception is Catholic priests, who are still called “Father.” This is not a matter of regulation, but of custom.

In the Canadian military, the chaplains are referred to as the Padres, whether they are Catholic or Protestant. The Protestant Padre is usually addressed that way. The Catholic Padre, it depends on who’s doing the addressing. Some address them as Padre, some as Fr., and if you pay attention you notice that Padre is usually used with the Surname and Fr. with the given name. Padre McLean but Fr. Joe.

Like the US, our Padres are officers. As I recall, the Bishop of the Military Ordinariate is equivalent to a Colonel but he’s not part of the military. I think the highest ranking Chaplain I’ve know was a Major – at the moment the Protestant Padre is Capt. Major. We’re all waiting for his promotion to Major Major.

We don’t have a Catholic Padre, which is an odd decision on the part of the military. In our town there is only one Catholic parish with one priest. By default he looks after the Catholic military members and their families. OTOH, this town has Anglican, United, Pentecostal, Moravian and Baptist clergy and yet they gave the Protestants a Chaplain. Guess that shows a shortage of Catholic Chaplains in the Canadian military – I know they are using lay Catholic Chaplains, regardless of the Church rule that only a priest can be a “Chaplain”.

 

[dochawk]

.

Like the US, our Padres are officers. As I recall, the Bishop of the Military Ordinariate is equivalent to a Colonel but he’s not part of the military. I think the highest ranking Chaplain I’ve know was a Major – at the moment the Protestant Padre is Capt. Major. We’re all waiting for his promotion to Major Major.

Never an IBM machine around when you need one . . .



hawk