US: New Jersey Priest Asks Lector: Please Don't Wear Black Lives Matter Shirt

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Who cares what the BLM meant? He is a lector wearing a tee shirt with writing. That alone is something a priest can reasonable request end.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
You left out the third meaning: the movement, which is distinct from the national organization. The movement is not one of hatred but one of unity and racial justice, as witnessed by the diversity of people in the movement.
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Your defense is sweetness and light. But your intended meaning cannot be discerned from that acronym or those words on a t-shirt by itself. Need additional context for what you would want communicated.
 
Just how is it a movement? Is it a movement without leaders? Is it a movement that has leaders who are distinct from leaders of the political organization with the same name? Or is it anarchic emotionalism writ large?

Is this BLM Movement different from the Civil Rights Movement that was led - at least morally and philosophically - by the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King? That too was a movement (as you say) “not of hatred but of unity and justice.” They too were diverse in their demographics with men and women of many races and creeds. But they did not spout hatred. They spoke the words of Christ. I remember those times very well. I remember the Freedom Riders. I remember the Little Rock Nine. I remember what happened on the Edmund Pettis Bridge. I remember the Memphis Sanitation Strike that ended in the death of Dr. King. I read his “Letter From Birmingham Jail” when it was first released. Those were my years as a young man. The Black Lives Matter Movement is not like those days at all.

When I see videos of BLM activities I see anger, violence, and flames. I hear foul mouthed people on megaphones leading chants that promote hatred. Who are the non-party leaders of the Black Lives Matter “Movement”? Certainly, even the casual observer can see that these people lack the moral character of their forebears in the Civil Rights Movement. Those honorable people were committed to NONviolence and they took the hoses and the dogs and the hatred that was dished out to them and never gave up. These people take up bricks and break glass, they assault innocent people in their cars, they throw bags of urine at policemen. Their behavior is shameful. Show me where I’m wrong.
 
Gyro said:
Just how is it a movement? Is it a movement without leaders?
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I don’t want to spend too much time derailing the thread but this is a really important question. It helps people not in the activist circles to understand why is so hard to get a fix on activist these days even with so much information on the web.

After the assassination of MLK and Malcolm X there was a considerable dip in “leader” activist.
Obviously one doesn’t want to get shot and naturally people were gun shy. (take the pun as you will)
I’m not going to say there weren’t but the tactic worked, people were afraid.
Fast forward to 2005, we have the stage set for the hackivist group Anonymous to take on the church of Scientology. I’m not going to claim it was the showdown of the century or anything but you had a group with no leaders, just a purpose. This make the churches normal tactic (smear, litigate, harass) next to impossible.
Great they found one kid. What are you going to do now? He’s not the rally point so the attacks from Anonymous don’t stop. The kids not the head of a movement so there’s no account or reputation to threaten. You could try to bully the kid and it’s family but to what end? you look like a jerk picking on a kid.

Therefor Anonymous was effectively untouchable.
Many activist groups have taken this to heart. While there will always be people like Snowden, Julian Assuage and so forth decentralizing a movement makes it impossible to stop.

JA could die tomorrow and wikileaks will live on. Same with BLM, same with anything like it.

You have people inspired by a simple message. Sure some ring leaders will rise up but the movement, the core of how it functions as people picking up the banner interdependently can’t be killed.

I know a lot of ex Anons that have movement on to other projects and the refinement of that idea has only been perfected on. These protest are a perfect example of that, the police have no one to target so they have to use blanket tactics to scare people off the street.
Gyro said:
When I see videos of BLM activities I see anger, violence, and flames. I hear foul-mouthed people on megaphones leading chants that promote hatred.
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That’s the one downside, you can’t control how others apply the message and violence sells newspapers. I was at one protest where the press came up to use, informed us an important person was going to be walking past and tried to goad us into doing something when they did.
Gyro said:
Show me where I’m wrong.
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I hope that helped.
 
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Anrakyr,

Thank you for your well developed and reasoned response. But in responding to me, your answer poses another question. If BLM is a “leaderless” movement, it then also becomes limited in its effectiveness. It’s expression as a political/moral movement devolves into becoming tactical only, because it lacks an agreed upon overall strategy. And strategy in political movements is essential. Hence, unless there is a change in how controls are imposed, the movement will dissipate over time. It will become weaker and weaker. It’ll actually become easier and easier to round up the stragglers. This means that my sense of BLM being anarchic and emotional (rather than strategic and rational) has some merit. History, I think, shows that anarchism is always and ultimately swallowed up by authoritarianism.
 
Gyro said:
I think, shows that anarchism is always and ultimately swallowed up by authoritarianism.
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Its supposed to be. Being an anarchist is a temporary state.
Either the thing you are trying to take power from is so powerful you will be destroyed by it (but hopefully end tyranny in doing so) or you overcome it and have to lay down the rebel mantle when you rebuild after.
 
Gyro said:
If BLM is a “leaderless” movement, it then also becomes limited in its effectiveness.
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They have local leaders. Evidence shows they have been quite effective.
Gyro said:
It’s expression as a political/moral movement devolves into becoming tactical only, because it lacks an agreed upon overall strategy.
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Not necessarily. The strategy is not why it is effective. The power of the message is. Consider the abolition movement prior to the Civil War. There was no central leadership. There were various leaders, but they were not coordinated. Otherwise you would not have had the disaster at Harper’s Ferry. Same thing with women’s suffrage. There were several leaders, but large disagreements on strategy. Nevertheless, they eventually prevailed. And they did not devolve into authoritarianism. History does not show what you think.
 
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It’s a very political t-shirt. Likewise I’d expect they don’t allow the Lector to wear a Trump shirt, nor a DNC shirt.
 
As a lector he needs to wear something that is not a distraction.
 
Rau said:
I’d guess most parishes don’t have a dress code, much less anything extreme that is actually enforced!
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I don’t think dress codes necessarily make sense. People may be coming straight off shift and wearning their work clothes for example. People may be travelling and not have other clothes to change into. People may be coming to church on a motorcycle and thus have no choice but to wear their motorcycle clothes in church.

But when it comes to lectors, cantors, communion ministers, offertory ministers and other lay people who play a visible and planned role during Mass, they need to be held to higher standards than the rest of the congregation because they represent the parish to some degree and form an example for others to follow. A priest has the right and even the duty to be strict with them.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The movement is not one of hatred but one of unity and racial justice, as witnessed by the diversity of people in the movement.
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I don’t see much diversity there myself to be honest.

Mostly left priviledged left wingers with a grudge.

I don’t see much diversity of opinion or political background within BLM.

Otherwise, where is the pro-life wing of BLM for example? Where is the abortion clinic they are protesting outside?

Just having people with different skin colours who nevertheless think exactly the same is not real diversity.
 
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PaulinVA said:
Lectors in t shirts.

Not what I expect.
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To a certain extent, it depends on what part of the US you are in, as some areas are far more causal in dress and others are more formal. I would have less of a problem with a lector in a rural farming parish getting up in jeans and a t shirt than I would in the cathedral of the diocese. That might be his best clothes.
 
mdgspencer said:
“I obviously have neither the power nor the desire to dictate what clothing a person wears to church.”
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Ding ding ding - there’s the problem. He doesn’t even care to dictate the most basic part of the diocesan policy about t-shirts with writing?

I mentally call that group “Black Liberal Marxists” or “Black Leninist Marxists”.

May I be the first to chime in with “this problem wouldn’t exist at EF Mass”?
Because everyone in the sanctuary is vested.

If someone shows up with a messaged shirt, throw a vestment on him or her, or say “sorry, we’re going to use a different lector today”.
Same would apply for any messaged shirt, whether it’s promoting NFL, Black Liberal Marxists, Black Lives Matter, Save the Whales, pro-life, or Under Armour.
 
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pnewton said:
Who cares what the BLM meant? He is a lector wearing a tee shirt with writing. That alone is something a priest can reasonable request end.
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This should basically be the main point.

We already have threads discussing this and literally everything that needs to be said has been said. This thread shouldn’t be another one!

When i was a lector, my parish had a dress code. Black pants/skirt, plain white top.
 
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otjm said:
To a certain extent, it depends on what part of the US you are in, as some areas are far more causal in dress and others are more formal. I would have less of a problem with a lector in a rural farming parish getting up in jeans and a t shirt than I would in the cathedral of the diocese. That might be his best clothes.
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I understand that. In my suburban parish it’s unusual for a male lector to not wear a suit or sportcoat. Whatever your Sunday best is, I guess.
 
Cirdan_XII said:
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LeafByNiggle:
The movement is not one of hatred but one of unity and racial justice, as witnessed by the diversity of people in the movement.
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I don’t see much diversity there myself to be honest.

Mostly left priviledged left wingers with a grudge.
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And you can tell that by how they dress? Or the expression on their faces? Or did you review the tax returns of the marchers? Or is it just what you want to believe?
Otherwise, where is the pro-life wing of BLM for example?
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How do you know the views of the marchers on abortion? Answer: you don’t.
Just having people with different skin colours who nevertheless think exactly the same is not real diversity.
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Not only people of different races, but different ages and walks of life. There were grandmothers. There were veterans. There were law enforcement officers. It was beautiful to see the Sheriff of Saginaw County Michigan join in a peaceful march. The tide is turning against white supremacy, thank God!

(I still don’t think lectors should were BLM shirts to mass, which is the subject of this thread, so I suggest we get back to it.)
 
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BartholomewB said:
Wouldn’t the same rule apply to pro-Trump or pro-Biden T-shirts, or to any such display of partisan support of a political party, movement, or faction?
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In all the local parishes I have went to mass I have never ever seen a person wearing such clothing.
I however on weekdays have been known to wear a stylish Snoopy t-shirt.
 
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