US Nuns Facing Vatican Scrutiny

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I read the article and of course I understand that the media is never complete in their coverage. There are many gaps in their information. However, there is one disconcerting note in the article, if it’s true. The sister, whose name I have forgotten, who has invited other sisters to ignore the visitors and treat them with indifference is completely out of line.

If the questions of the Sacred Congregation for Religious Institutes and Societies of Apostolic Life are simply whether or not the sisters are living according to their charism, according to the basic requirements of religious life, and are faithful Catholics, then there should be no concern on the part of the sisters. If you’re doing what your rule and constitutions say that you’re doing and those rules and statutes were approved by Rome, then you have nothing to resent or hide.

On the other hand, if you’re creating the rules as you go along, even though you have a document in print that defines and describes your life, then you’re out of compliance and you need to get back on track.

The issue is not whether the Church wants to put sisters “in their place”. The issue is whether or not sisters are in the right place where they vowed they would spend the rest of their lives. I’m speaking here of a spiritual place. Those sisters who are where they promised to be will come out of this fine.

As a human being, I understand that it is uncomfortable to be scrutinized, even when you’re doing everything right. But that’s life. We’re always under scrutiny. It comes with the territory. There is no field of life where there is no one who is above us to keep an eye on us. Heck, even the state keeps an eye on its citizens. Why shouldn’t the Church keep an eye on her religious?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I read the article and of course I understand that the media is never complete in their coverage. There are many gaps in their information. However, there is one disconcerting note in the article, if it’s true. The sister, whose name I have forgotten, who has invited other sisters to ignore the visitors and treat them with indifference is completely out of line.

If the questions of the Sacred Congregation for Religious Institutes and Societies of Apostolic Life are simply whether or not the sisters are living according to their charism, according to the basic requirements of religious life, and are faithful Catholics, then there should be no concern on the part of the sisters. If you’re doing what your rule and constitutions say that you’re doing and those rules and statutes were approved by Rome, then you have nothing to resent or hide.

On the other hand, if you’re creating the rules as you go along, even though you have a document in print that defines and describes your life, then you’re out of compliance and you need to get back on track.

The issue is not whether the Church wants to put sisters “in their place”. The issue is whether or not sisters are in the right place where they vowed they would spend the rest of their lives. I’m speaking here of a spiritual place. Those sisters who are where they promised to be will come out of this fine.

As a human being, I understand that it is uncomfortable to be scrutinized, even when you’re doing everything right. But that’s life. We’re always under scrutiny. It comes with the territory. There is no field of life where there is no one who is above us to keep an eye on us. Heck, even the state keeps an eye on its citizens. Why shouldn’t the Church keep an eye on her religious?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Well, you are preaching to the choir, Brother. At the same time, I feel it’s about time that the heirarchy take a good look at practices of some existing congregations of religious. I was affiliated with one for a long time, discerning with a secular group of consecrated lay women who want very much to be part of the existing membership. We had the same formation as the sisters, yet there was a snobbish attitude among most of the sisters that our consecration was not “equal” to theirs. They were resistant to wearing habits, constantly incorporated Hindu, Bhuddist and Native American (pagan) rituals in their prayer services, discarding the LOH, and very vocal about their perceived contempt for the male “domination” in the Church and the need for women priests. I couldn’t live with that, so I left. But, the charism of these sisters is still a beautiful thing and I have since joined Cloister Outreach in their efforts to renew the foundress’ original rule. I pray for the dissenters every day.
 
The Sisters who taught me in highschool belong to a congregation that has become very modern and progressive, and I assume will be under scrutiny now. Though I would never presume to judge what is in the individual Sisters’ hearts. They were amazing to me when I was a student. My principal is a wonderful woman who I consider like a mother (my own mother died when I was 10) and she told me recently that she has been praying for my conversion all these years (I am now a catechumen at age 30). She’s now in her 70s and I consider her an absolutely amazing person.

However, I recently chatted with another one of my teachers from that school, a Sister who currently works at a non-denominational spirituality centre. I told her about my converting, and rather than being estatic like my principal, she told me a few things which confused me to say the least. I am living outside the USA currently. The Sisters here are habited and my parish priest is very traditional in his advice to me. Basically she feels I should not be speaking to this priest or the Sisters, that they are too traditional and giving me the wrong impression of what it means to be a Christian (I am a Jew by background). She recommended many spiritual books which I discovered later are not even Catholic. She also said I should “hold off” going to mass and converting until I return to the United States. She played down my interest in Eucharistic Adoration. She said my priest giving me advice on how to behave in mass or life in general was a “red flag” to her. She commented also, that it was the spirit of people, rather than their beliefs, which were most important… so, for example she said, being a passionate environmentalist who is also an atheist is more “special” to God that someone who is a lukewarm Christian. Anyhow, needless to say I will not be taking her advice to not talk my priest, I will be speaking to him very soon because I am confused by what she said and very much so by the fact that this is coming from a nun. 😦

In any event though I do agree to pray for others is very important and that is what I plan to do for her. And thanks for starting this thread also, as reading that there are some dissidents in the religious life has actually helped me a bit in my confusion.
 
Susan_Calvin said:
The Sisters who taught me in highschool belong to a congregation that has become very modern and progressive, and I assume will be under scrutiny now. Though I would never presume to judge what is in the individual Sisters’ hearts. They were amazing to me when I was a student. My principal is a wonderful woman who I consider like a mother (my own mother died when I was 10) and she told me recently that she has been praying for my conversion all these years (I am now a catechumen at age 30). She’s now in her 70s and I consider her an absolutely amazing person.

.
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I’m sorry, be reading what you’ve described, I fail to see the progress. As to modern, I would not use that term either. There are modern ways to evangelize. There are new issues that face the Church or that the Church has to face. One may call these “modern”. What the dear sister is talking is not modern, it is secularism. There is a big difference.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I stand corrected. I agree secular is a much better word to use. I was trying to be “nice” and I couldn’t think of the right word for what has happened to their congregation but secular describes it pretty well, thanks!
 
I find it disheartening and sad that this “investigation” is even necessary.
 
Gardenman said:
I find it disheartening and sad that this “investigation” is even necessary.
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Don’t feel that way. These investigations and visitations have been taking place in the Church since the birth of religious life. It’s a cycle. Every couple of centuries Church authorities and religious have to do some serious self-study. This is what helpd clean house, preserve the good, and make room for newer and needed expressions of the consecrated life.

We had this during the Middle Ages. That was the time when the papacy decided that religious would no longer be under the authority of the bishops, but directly under the aurhority of the Holy Father, because there was too much politics in that bishop and religious superior relationship.

Then it happened again during the Renaissance. The Carmelites and Franciscans underwent a much needed reform. The Jesuits were founded and made great contributions to the Church. Vincent and Francis de Sales made their mark on the charitable apostolates of the Church.

It comes up again in the 19th century under Pope Leo XIII. He reorganizes the major religous orders.

This time it has come up again. It’s time for reorganization and new life among religious.

Everytime these things happen, the result is always very positive for the Church. I have no idea how old you are; but, I’m old. I probably won’t be around to see the results. But I will die knowing that good things are coming. How do I know this? I know the history of religious life. It’s always the same cycle. Trust me.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Thank you for your clarification !

I’m in my 50’s and vividly remember the uproar over the IHM nuns here in Los Angeles in the 1960’s with Cardinal McIntyre. My aunt and uncle pulled their girls out of that school when it all went down and ceased financial support to the school and order as well.

That enire situation cause quite a stir, indeed.
 
Gardenman said:
Thank you for your clarification !

I’m in my 50’s and vividly remember the uproar over the IHM nuns here in Los Angeles in the 1960’s with Cardinal McIntyre. My aunt and uncle pulled their girls out of that school when it all went down and ceased financial support to the school and order as well.

That enire situation cause quite a stir, indeed.
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Either there are too many posters here who have it out for California or California seems to have more problems with orthodoxy than any other state in the nation, especially from San Francisco south.

Every state has issues, but if I were to keep track, which I won’t because I can think of better things to do, I would say that 2/3 anomalies in the Church come out of California. Is it true or is it that everyone is watching California and reporting it? 🤷

I remember that issue with the IHM. I was in Virginia at the time. We had a wonderful group of over 50 IHM sisters from Philadelphia. They’re still there. We call them “The Sistes with the poofy hair”. They wear a small veil and they have a tendency to poof up their hair.

Maybe it’s part of the habit. :eek:

I better shut up now before an IHM hits me on the head.

Br. JR, OSF :):eek:
 
Southern California wasn’t always the liberal unorthodox place that it get’s the reputation for being now.

For those who don’t realize it, we DID have traditional Catholic schools,(still do) followed the mainstream conservative Catholic ideals and had conservative traditional church heirarchy.

My entire family attended conservative, traditional Catholic elementry and high schools here.
We received excellent educations from nuns and priests. We had very few lay teachers, unlike today where the vast majority of these schools are staffed by lay faculty…which isn’t bad…it just isn’t the same atmosphere as schools back then. I’m sure this is true in other states as well.

The 60’s and Vatican ll changed everything dramatically. Hollyweird didn’t help matters much, either LOL.

Here’s a shocker: We even have churches that offer the TLM !!!

All is not lost.
Yet…
 
JReducation said:
Either there are too many posters here who have it out for California or California seems to have more problems with orthodoxy than any other state in the nation, especially from San Francisco south.

Every state has issues, but if I were to keep track, which I won’t because I can think of better things to do, I would say that 2/3 anomalies in the Church come out of California. Is it true or is it that everyone is watching California and reporting it? 🤷

I remember that issue with the IHM. I was in Virginia at the time. We had a wonderful group of over 50 IHM sisters from Philadelphia. They’re still there. We call them “The Sistes with the poofy hair”. They wear a small veil and they have a tendency to poof up their hair.

Maybe it’s part of the habit. :eek:

I better shut up now before an IHM hits me on the head.

Br. JR, OSF :):eek:
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Actually Brother,
I am glad you brought that issue up. (And this is not directed in any way at you as I know you are full of Franciscan Christian Charity, you just got me thinking)…I have lived and served and ministered in Southern California for over 30 years. As with any large group of people there will sometimes be difficulties with a few. That happens everywhere. However for those who wish to paint southern California as a whole group of people who are not faithful to the church well that simply is not true. I have been quite active here in the Los Angeles Diocese, gone to college at Loyola Marymount University, Taught CCD, Been involved in youth ministry, with the charismatic renewal, with The Secular Franciscans, as well as being a professed sister, just to name a few… and to introduce myself to any who have not met me) This may be one of my last posts here. I have to say that yes we may have problems, and any diocese will … but rather than focusing on the “problems” since the church hierarchy is taking care of those? Why not instead focus on the many good things happening here? We have one of the largest Catholic populations here in the states. Young men are responding to Gods call, as well as young women. We have a vibrant Diaconate program, Cursillo, Charismatic Renewal, Divine Mercy Prayer Cenacles. We minister to the poor, there are groups committed to praying outside the many abortion clinics,among other ministries to the homeless and gang members trying to exit the gang lifestyle. … so while yes the IHMS had difficulty in the 50’s, (and others as well )I know some from both parts of the order by the way, and I know many religious both habited and non habited. My point is and perhaps badly made is yes perhaps Southern California has it share of difficulties (as do other areas) But it has devoted committed Catholic people who serve God and His Church faithfully. Please don’t put down the many good people here, rather pray for their continued faithfulness in a country which is increasingly attacking us, rather than fighting other faithful because they are more liberal or not liberal enough, or to old or (add your own label) In my opinion what is needed is for us to band together in prayer as we are entering a time when it is less easy or comfortable or sometimes even safe to be a Catholic. Blessings to you all, and a very special thank you to JR for your many insightful posts!!
Blessings of Peace and All Good!*
 
The secular world gives us many reasons why various institutions and professions are periodically evaluated and monitored as to compliance to basic standards. Those who are served by them deserve it and should expect it. Hospitals, for example, must be accredited every few years and the process requires an established system of scrutiny by experts. Countless patients’ lives have been saved because of this process.

The care of our souls is more important than anything (or should be). Why shouldn’t our Holy Mother Church monitor her priests, sisters, lay groups, who lead us to Christ? His Truth is important, and many have distorted it and have mis-fed and misled us.

With regard to this Vatican effort to look at the various orders of our American religious, I join my voice to the chorus proclaiming “it’s about time.” I hope this will be a comprehensive effort. For the groups who won’t greet the effort with disdain and/or do not sincerely cooperate, well, I hope the Vatican officials will say “hmm, methinks thou dost protest too much” and proceed to investigate them, admonish them, and continue to monitor them closely – and perhaps disband them if they are not representing the Church. The Church has the right and the obligation to do this. She is the Light of Christ’s love, truth and justice, as should be every order of the religious who supposedly represents her.
 
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