(USA)Is friday penance required?

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To which he concludes:

"But the fact that the bishops nowhere state an alternative obligation indicates that one does not exist.] Legal obligations do not exist that are not legislated.
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The legal obligation is legislated. It is in canon 1251. That’s not my opinion. It’s fact.

What was not legislated was anything that eliminated the obligation to do penance on Friday.

In the absence of any law releasing Catholics from the obligatory penance, the obligation remains. Such obligation is expressed in canons 1250 and 1251.

If you can point to any legislation which releases from that obligation, I’d like to see it.
 
By no means am I expressing only my view. I am posting what the law says.

You might not like it, but the law says what it says.
And without taking a stand on either of the arguments presented on this thread, this only serves to reinforce what I’m saying with regards to the scrupulous: posting on Internet forums is of no help. See, here we now have differing opinions. For the most of us, this is an illuminating exercise. For the scrupulous, such as the OP, it only exacerbates the condition.

This is why I must insist to the OP, and to all scrupulous: present your questions only to your confessor, not to an Internet forum. Otherwise, you will never get better.
 
And without taking a stand on either of the arguments presented on this thread, this only serves to reinforce what I’m saying with regards to the scrupulous: posting on Internet forums is of no help. See, here we now have differing opinions. For the most of us, this is an illuminating exercise. For the scrupulous, such as the OP, it only exacerbates the condition.

This is why I must insist to the OP, and to all scrupulous: present your questions only to your confessor, not to an Internet forum. Otherwise, you will never get better.
Absolutely yes.
 
By no means am I expressing only my view. I am posting what the law says.

You might not like it, but the law says what it says.
It is not about what “I like”. Need to read more slowly…🙂

I said that I had long argued this matter - even argued with a rather known theologian on the matter - I was arguing the same thing you are arguing. Such was my view and understanding - my reading of the Law for years.

It is not simply “what the law says” - for the law does not clearly simply “say” such - go read Jimmy Akins long article there in my link where he changes his view.

My view currently is that yes I can see arguments on both sides. But one cannot simply say “look there it is - clear as day”. Knowing Jimmy Akin’s reputation for extensive research and knowledge as well as that Theologian noting that it is strongly recommended…and even reading a canon lawyer who said the same…and as Jimmy Points out -

“This also is the understanding indicated in the Canon Law Society of America’s New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law. The commentary on canon 1253 summarizes the obligations and recommendations without indicating that a legal obligation to do penance continues to exist on typical Fridays of the year.”

Such does not go well with “it is clear as day”…
 
The legal obligation is legislated.

What was not legislated was anything that eliminated the obligation to do penance on Friday.

In the absence of any law releasing Catholics from the obligatory penance, the obligation remains. Such obligation is expressed in canons 1250 and 1251.

If you can point to any legislation which releases from that obligation, I’d like to see it.
You can take it up with Jimmy Akin:

“But the fact that the bishops nowhere state an alternative obligation indicates that one does not exist. Legal obligations do not exist that are not legislated.”

One needs though to read the whole to see what he is noting: He explains his understanding of where the obligation was released but that nothing was put in its place as an obligation. Too long to repeat here.

jimmyakin.org/2004/07/since_tomorrow_.html

Again take up his argument with him.

I am only noting that there is more than one view among sound theological minds on this matter.
 
And without taking a stand on either of the arguments presented on this thread, this only serves to reinforce what I’m saying with regards to the scrupulous: posting on Internet forums is of no help. See, here we now have differing opinions. For the most of us, this is an illuminating exercise. For the scrupulous, such as the OP, it only exacerbates the condition.

This is why I must insist to the OP, and to all scrupulous: present your questions only to your confessor, not to an Internet forum. Otherwise, you will never get better.
A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?

A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” who can direct them --and even give them some general principles* to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience).

Thus with their direction they can “dismiss scruples” (in the older language despise them) - “act against them”.

Scruples are to be dismissed ~ not argued with.

To borrow and image from a Carthusian from centuries ago: Scruples *are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? * No one keeps walking.

Such ‘obedience’ to a regular confessor who knows of ones scruples (except in what is manifest sin - such as if he told them it was ok to murder someone or something certain like that) is key. Such is the age old practice.

Also counseling - could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/)

Here was a recent post from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.

ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/6-tools-for-the-scrupulous
 
A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?

A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” who can direct them --and even give them some general principles* to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience).

Thus with their direction they can “dismiss scruples” (in the older language despise them) - “act against them”.

Scruples are to be dismissed ~ not argued with.

To borrow and image from a Carthusian from centuries ago: Scruples *are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? * No one keeps walking.

Such ‘obedience’ to a regular confessor who knows of ones scruples (except in what is manifest sin - such as if he told them it was ok to murder someone or something certain like that) is key. Such is the age old practice.

Also counseling - could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/)

Here was a recent post from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.

ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/6-tools-for-the-scrupulous
Correct.

An Internet forum is therefore contraindicated for the scrupulous according to these principles.
 
Dear FrDavid96,

I apologize for contributing to the confusion on this point. I was unaware of the quick question on this site.

It reflects my former view, which was based on what I initially heard everyone saying, from before I studied the issue closely.

When I did study the issue closely, I discovered that what you commonly hear on this issue is mistaken (innocently, of course).

A careful reading of the particular law of the United States indicates that, while Fridays remain days of penance, outside of Lent it is not mandated that the faithful perform an individual act of penance.

The U.S. bishops terminated the abstinence requirement and did not put anything (even “choose your own penance”) in its place.

The links that Bookcat has been providing document the results of my research into this subject.

Thank you to the person who made me aware of the quick question. I have asked that it be taken offline until I can fix it.

God bless everyone, and have a blessed Triduum and Easter season!
 
A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” who can direct them --and even give them some general principles* to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience).
Probably easier to do if the person is not in RCIA awaiting baptism as is the OP.
 
Dear FrDavid96,

[for the sake of the 6000 character limit, I removed the opening paragraphs]

A careful reading of the particular law of the United States indicates that, while Fridays remain days of penance, outside of Lent it is not mandated that the faithful perform an individual act of penance.

The U.S. bishops terminated the abstinence requirement and did not put anything (even “choose your own penance”) in its place.
On that, I completely disagree. Indeed, I must take issue with it. The Conference did no such thing because that’s not what the document actually says.

What it says is
24. Among the works of voluntary self-denial and personal penance which we especially commend to our people for the future observance of Friday, even though we hereby terminate the traditional law of abstinence binding under pain of sin, as the sole prescribed means of observing Friday, we give first place to abstinence from flesh meat…

It is simply not accurate to say that those 2 sentence have the same meaning:
“The U.S. bishops terminated the abstinence requirement” is not the equivalent of “we hereby terminate [abstinence] as the sole means of observing Friday”

The two statements are simply not saying the same thing.
[again, removed for the sake of space]
God bless everyone, and have a blessed Triduum and Easter season!
Part 1:
Then indulge me in a question:

A restaurant has a sign that reads “cash only.” That means exactly that. No checks, no cards, no credit. Cash only.

One day, the restaurant removes the “cash only” sign and replaces it with this: “we have cancelled our cash-only policy.” Now, if we use the language of the US bishops, let’s say that the restaurant said “we hereby terminate our policy of cash as the sole prescribed means of settling your bill.”

Now, my question is this: since the restaurant terminated its policy of allowing cash as the sole means of settling my bill, am I to infer that I am no longer obligated to pay for the food that I eat when I dine there? Does it mean that (a) the food is now free, as the obligation to pay has been abrogated, or does it mean that (b) I can now use a different form of payment, but I still have an obligation to pay?

If you say that the answer is (b), then I would like an explanation of why it might be the case for a restaurant but not the case for what the US bishops said?

Part 2:

Let’s look at the laws:

Canons 1250 to 1253 say that
–Every Friday is a day of penance (save solemnities). Canon 1250
–Abstinence from meat is to be observed on every Friday, unless the conference of bishops determines otherwise. Canon 1251

Now, canons 1250 and 1251 are two separate canons that speak of two separate (although certainly related) obligations. 1250 expresses an obligation for penance, while 1251 expresses an obligation to abstain from meat.

Let’s take note of the difference between the obligation for penance under 1250 and the obligation for abstinence under 1251.

Then we read canon 1253:

1253 The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.

Let’s look at what those words say:
  1. The Conference can determine more precisely fast and abstinence
  2. The Conference can substitute other forms of penance
That’s what they can do. What they cannot do is completely abrogate the obligation of Friday penance. They don’t have the authority to do that because the canons do not give them that authority. They can only substitute other forms of penance, but not remove the obligation itself.

At no point in the 1966 Pastoral Statement (which we can be confident has force-of-law as no one disputes that) actually say that the US bishop’s conference abrogates or otherwise releases from the obligation of penance under (what is now) canon 1250. No such sentence exists.

And that really is the heart of the matter. The US bishops never actually said that they were abrogating the Friday penance. It’s just that simple: they never said it.

Now, the only way for me to “prove the negative” in this case is to type out the entire document (which I won’t do). Short of that, there’s just no way to prove that there is no such sentence in the bishops’ statement. However, what I can do is to ask that anyone who claims that such a sentence (or 2 or more) is there to actually show it. Quote the sentence. Quote the words. Where do they say it?

The Pastoral Statement is, after all, the law of the Church. If one claims that the law says something, then it should be rather straightforward to show where the law says it by quoting the actual words.

Admittedly, the bishops did not specify any particular substitutes for abstinence as the means of satisfying the Friday penance requirement. However, the lack of a list of available substitutes does not equate to abrogating the penance itself.

Perhaps, if the current canon 1253 existed in 1966, the bishops might have added a sentence to make things more clear that one may substitute something else. Yet even this is not necessary because they did say:
22. Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year…
Which clearly indicates that they are *not *attempting to abrogate the Friday penance. They would not say “Friday remains” while at the same time abrogating the very thing.

PS: Yes, my post is a bit redundant at times. It took a while to type this as I was going back-and-forth from the desk. Please forgive any unnecessary repetitions. It appears that at times I forgot that I already said that.
 

A careful reading of the particular law of the United States indicates that, while Fridays remain days of penance, outside of Lent it is not mandated that the faithful perform an individual act of penance.

It found the USCCB conclusion interesting (in 1966 statement):
28. In summary, let it not be said that by this action, implementing the spirit of renewal coming out of the Council, we have abolished Friday, repudiated the holy traditions of our fathers, or diminished the insistence of the Church on the fact of sin and the need for penance.
 
  1. Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year…Which clearly indicates that they are *not *attempting to abrogate the Friday penance. They would not say “Friday remains” while at the same time abrogating the very thing.
To provide more context:
  1. For these and related reasons, the Catholic bishops of the United States, far from downgrading the traditional penitential observance of Friday, and motivated precisely by the desire to give the spirit of penance greater vitality, especially on Fridays, the day that Jesus died,**urge **our Catholic people henceforth to be guided by the following norms.
  1. Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year, a time** when those who seek perfection** will be mindful of their personal sins and the sins of mankind which they are called upon to help expiate in union with Christ Crucified.
  1. Friday should be in each week something of what Lent is in the entire year. For this reason we urge all to prepare for that weekly Easter that comes with each Sunday by freely making of every Friday a day of self-denial and mortification in prayerful remembrance of the passion of Jesus Christ.
  1. Among the works of voluntary self-denial and personal penance which we especially **commend **to our people for the future observance of Friday…
I’m sorry, Father, but the language in this document in no way “CLEARLY INDICATES” that the Bishops were mandating some form of penance on Fridays; and this is precisely why there is such a debate on this issue.

While you may be quite right in your interpretation of the Bishops intentions, I think it terribly unfair to frame all of this as if it were as obvious as you assert. I don’t think it would be utterly ridiculous to interpret the above as either the Bishops commanding something of the faithful in understated language, or in communicating that Friday penance is no longer binding under law, but rather is to be done only freely at their urging.
 
If you say that the answer is (b), then I would like an explanation of why it might be the case for a restaurant but not the case for what the US bishops said?
I think this is an interesting thought experiment.

So let’s say there is indeed a sign that reads We no longer require that only cash be used as a form of payment.

But what if the sign was accompanied by an explanation that read:

*It is a revered and solemn custom of honest society that diners pay the restaurant at which they dine, and we in no way wish to downgrade this custom or, indeed, any laws which are based on it. We therefore **urge **all customers who wish to be perfect, to **freely and voluntarily pay us **for their food using forms of payment which might include cash, but are not limited to it.
*
Might that document not add confusion rather than better explaining the sign? It might indeed confuse; but, at the same time, I think it would be odd to interpret it as meaning that no payment is ever required, and that there will be no negative consequence for those who do not “freely and voluntarily” pay the restaurant.

Interesting, thank you, Father.
 
My apologies, but one more post on this.

Whenever this topic comes up, Jimmy’s research into the question is almost always cited by those who have been clearly influenced by his reasoning.

Just for the sake of providing counter-evidence, I’d like to offer the following link: socrates58.blogspot.com/2009/11/friday-as-required-day-of-penance-not.html

The USCCB document alluded to in the above—Penitential Practices for Today’s Catholic—is no longer at the linked-to URL. Here is another link to it: web.archive.org/web/20091109104333/http://www.usccb.org/dpp/penitential.htm

Now, in this document, we clearly see “Fridays Throughout the Year” being assigned to a subsection called “Penitential Days.” We read moreover that, on Fridays, “[a]ll of us are urged to prepare **appropriately **for that weekly Easter that comes with each Sunday,” since “the Church prescribes making each Friday throughout the year a penitential day.”

The word “appropriately” is an addition to the language of the 1966 document; and, in my interpretation, it seems to emphasize that, indeed, the Bishops did not intend on removing all obligation for Friday penance.

I therefore would tend to agree with the following:
Here’s my understanding: Akin’s argument is that the 1966 document is ambiguous, and he is right. But … in 2000, the USCCB clarified the rules, showing that it is indeed obligatory. So Akin’s argument is a bit of a dead letter.
So, thank you, FrDavid96. Over the course of the past hour or so, you’ve helped to change my mind on this issue.
 
It sure sounds as though the USCCB might have benefited by more clarity in its statement. It could have said something like: “The obligation to do penance on all Fridays of the year remains a grave obligation. To meet this obligation, Catholics may continue the practice of Friday abstinence from meat, or they may substitute another penance of their own choosing.”

I’m afraid that what happened in actual practice is that most Catholics simply took away the message that Friday abstinence from meat was no longer binding under pain of sin, except on Fridays of Lent. So, many if not most of them simply dropped the practice, without putting anything in its place.

My wife, being a practical person, simply did not change her—and our—practice at all. We just kept up the Friday abstinence. (After all, who wants to try to think up an alternate penance?) But a great many didn’t, and they didn’t think that they were doing anything wrong in treating Fridays just like any other day of the year.
 
Out of curiosity, what other forms of penance are there?
See sections 1434-1439 of the Catechism. Actions that bring about conversion of heart include:

Fasting
Prayer
Almsgiving
Effort at reconciliation with one’s neighbor
Tears of repentance
Concern for the salvation of one’s neighbor
Intercession of the saints
The practice of charity
Gestures of reconciliation
Concern for the poor
The exercise and defense of justice and right
Admission of faults to one’s brethren
Fraternal correction
Revision of life
Examination of conscience
Spiritual direction
Acceptance of suffering
Endurance of persecution for the sake of righteousness
"Taking up one’s cross each day and following Jesus is the surest way of penance.:
Daily conversion and penance find their source and nourishment in the Eucharist
Reading Sacred Scripture
Praying the Liturgy of the Hours
Praying the Our Father
Sincere acts of worship or devotion
Spiritual exercises
Penitential liturgies
Pilgrimages as signs of penance
Voluntary self-denial
 
Good penitential ideas posted by SuscipeMeDomine and Phemie. But I’m thinking that the average Catholic pewsitter did not pull out the list on Thursday and say, “okay, which one are we going to do this Friday? I know–how about we abstain from the Internet?”

Kids: “No–not that one!”

Dad: “Okay, we’ll say an Our Father on Friday evening.”
 
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