USCCB Migration Chair Urges Opposition to 700-Mile Border Fence

[Al_Masetti]

If it’s ok for the United States to provide free benefits to ILLEGAL immigrants / ILLEGAL aliens when they arrive here in the United States, then is it equally ok, to simply supply free benefits to the ILLEGAL immigrants/ ILLEGAL aliens before they make the trek to the United States.

In other words, should the United States provide free benefits to ANY citizen of ANY country in return for them staying in their home country?

I mean, what’s the difference?

Can an alien come here on vacation, and immediately go and register for free everything?

If it’s ok to provide illegal aliens with free everything, then should the United States provide its own citizens with the free everything (medical, etc) that the U.S. citizens are now paying for with their own money?

 

[Lance]

If it’s ok for the United States to provide free benefits to ILLEGAL immigrants / ILLEGAL aliens when they arrive here in the United States, then is it equally ok, to simply supply free benefits to the ILLEGAL immigrants/ ILLEGAL aliens before they make the trek to the United States.

In other words, should the United States provide free benefits to ANY citizen of ANY country in return for them staying in their home country?

I mean, what’s the difference?

Can an alien come here on vacation, and immediately go and register for free everything?

If it’s ok to provide illegal aliens with free everything, then should the United States provide its own citizens with the free everything (medical, etc) that the U.S. citizens are now paying for with their own money?

Excellent point.

 

[c659smith]

I do not understand why the Bishops would be in opposition to the 700 mile fence, A country has a right to protect it’s borders.Does the Vatican allow entry 24/7 behind the walls. After all the vatican too is a country. Can I work at the vatican without a backgriund check and some type of registration in that country. I am a devout Catholic but looks like what is good for the goose may not be good for the gander.

 

[Ituyu]

quote=Lance;1568205]Many if not most of the kids who graduate or drop out(which a lot of them do) from the Chicago public schools(I don’t think Chicago is different most cities) are going to end up as janitors, bus boys and waiting on tables if they are lucky. Just as a side fact, my daughter who teaches school also waits tables on the weekend. Many times she makes more waiting on tables than she does as a teacher, now that’s a sad state of affairs.

Yeah Lance but most of those if not all are immigrants, legal and “illegal”. So were really talking about the same group of people. And, if your daughter really makes more on 16 hour weekends as a waitress, which I doubt, because most restaurants do not offer medical insurance, pensions or paid vacations.

I understand the need for farm workers. I just want them to be legal and them or or their employer pay their fair share of school taxes, medical cost, etc. Again many inner-city kids are not doing internships and working on careers, I know they can’t do farm work but the can bus tables, cook, work in construction and many other jobs the illegals do.

It’s easy Lance. Legalize them! Even if our kids worked those jobs we will still need more immigrants because we don’t have enough kids to do all the jobs that need doing.

Obviously you have never had your car smashed up by one of the illegals you spend your days worrying about. I have, he had no drivers license, expired plates, and no insurance. He was arrested and taken to jail where he posted his $500 bond, so obviously he had money, and skipped town. My insurance company and I were left holding the bill. Don’t tell me that my rates are not affected by this.

Funny you should say that. My car was hit while parked the other day. I haven’t checked in my property damage or uninsured motorists coverage will pay for it. I figure it’s about 600 dollars worth for a small dent. But I’m 95% sure that it wasn’t an “illegal” that was responsible. My car was hit by a semi years ago and the guy took off. An “illegal” called the police with the license plates and when they called it over the radio the trucker heard it and came back. He was White but that didn’t help me because the guy fled the state leaving me and my insurance with large medical and property damage bills.
My walls and roof on my house go against nature too but I would not be without them.

If you are refering to Europe they have their own immigration problems, both legal and illegal. My wife’s relatives in Italy tell us that within 50 years Italy will cease to be a Chritian nation if things are not turned around.

Not just Europe but Japan too. All of Western Civilization is in decline except for us because our immigrants, legal and “illegal” have been providing us with much needed growth.

 

[Ituyu]

I do not understand why the Bishops would be in opposition to the 700 mile fence, A country has a right to protect it’s borders.Does the Vatican allow entry 24/7 behind the walls. After all the vatican too is a country. Can I work at the vatican without a backgriund check and some type of registration in that country. I am a devout Catholic but looks like what is good for the goose may not be good for the gander.

They oppose it because it’s a stupid inhumane idea. Our own Homeland Security would prefer a high tech system not a fence. And the Border Patrol says a fence won’t work. The people that live in the areas most affected by the fence oppose it too. If these people aren’t behind it, I don’t know why anyone else could favor it. People will find a way around it and I think that that is what politicians that support it are relying on.

 

[Ituyu]

If it’s ok for the United States to provide free benefits to ILLEGAL immigrants / ILLEGAL aliens when they arrive here in the United States, then is it equally ok, to simply supply free benefits to the ILLEGAL immigrants/ ILLEGAL aliens before they make the trek to the United States.

In other words, should the United States provide free benefits to ANY citizen of ANY country in return for them staying in their home country?

I mean, what’s the difference?

Can an alien come here on vacation, and immediately go and register for free everything?

If it’s ok to provide illegal aliens with free everything, then should the United States provide its own citizens with the free everything (medical, etc) that the U.S. citizens are now paying for with their own money?

It’s obvious that you’re a victim of your own rhetoric. This current wave of “illegal” immigrants do not come here for free medical or free anything as a rule. They pay for schools just like we do, if they pay rent or buy a home. It has been shown that these immigrants “UNDER UTILIZE” services. That means that, in blance, they don’t use as much as they pay for.

 

[c659smith]

Well would the Vatican be stupid too. I say we don’t put up the fence and the vatican take down the wall then. Why is a fence inhumane? If the fence does not work then whats the challenge? Again I ask can one work or live in the vatican without being registered and a backgound check being completed? Why is it alright for those that oppose it yet do not walk the walk and talk the talk.Try to work in Mexico or own land without being a citizen. Run out of money in Mexico and you will be in jail or deported quicker than you can say amigo

 

[Ituyu]

Well would the Vatican be stupid too. I say we don’t put up the fence and the vatican take down the wall then. Why is a fence inhumane? If the fence does not work then whats the challenge? Again I ask can one work or live in the vatican without being registered and a backgound check being completed? Why is it alright for those that oppose it yet do not walk the walk and talk the talk.Try to work in Mexico or own land without being a citizen. Run out of money in Mexico and you will be in jail or deported quicker than you can say amigo

I’ve posted articles on this thread about Homeland Security and our own Border Patrol not supporting the fence. I have no idea what the Vatican does. I do have an idea what Mexico does but that is not the issue. The issue is what we do and what we need. “Illegal” immigration is a problem that we can easily resolve administratively if we wanted to. The fence would be inhumane because not only does it interfere with the lives of our own citizens, it will cost the lives of thousands more who attempt the trip through even more desparate means. Why spend so much on something that won’t make us more secure and it won’t keep the “Illegal” out. What we need to do is simple. Fill our labor needs with “legal” workers and that will resolve the issue. Most of those already here would have qualified for entry had we not shut the “legal” door and we had no good reason to shut that door.

 

[c659smith]

Most of the illegals would have never been received legally. 10,000,000 mostly south of the border. Administratively an impossibility to register. 2nd and 3rd generation not asimulating with the American way of life. Many not speaking English and refusing to learn. Still carrying the the flags of other countries.

Look they want to work here, enjoy our benefits, and become U.S citizens then assimulate! Join our military, protect and defend our country and constitution. I’ll give citizenship but they must hold our country above all OTHERS including their own past lands.

I think if that was the ground rules then 9 1/2 million would be going home very quickly. They don’t love this country, our way of life, our culture, and have no intentions of joining in on the big melting pot to spill their blood, but to use this country for their own selfish means which is as it has been to send money home and leave this country taking our social security.

The argument that we need them is a bunch of bologna. There are people throughout the world waiting to come into this country legally and abide by our laws.Look cruel is what has been done to the average U.S. citizen. Our children being told to adapt to their language, our public schools system becoming over crowded, waiting hours in an emergecy room because it is being used as a well clinic for the common cold so they don’t have to pay the doctor and will deadbeat the hospital. This is what I see and this is hard facts

 

[Lance]

Yeah Lance but most of those if not all are immigrants, legal and “illegal”. So were really talking about the same group of people. And, if your daughter really makes more on 16 hour weekends as a waitress, which I doubt, because most restaurants do not offer medical insurance, pensions or paid vacations.

No they are not, you just pulled that out of your head or some other place. Most of the kids in Chicago public schools are black and their parents have been in this country for generations. Don’t doubt my word, in the restaurant she works in a good waitress can make $300 to $400 a night on tips.

It’s easy Lance. Legalize them! Even if our kids worked those jobs we will still need more immigrants because we don’t have enough kids to do all the jobs that need doing.

I am not talking about the kids doing the job. Once they get out of high school they are adults and need a job. I have nothing against immigrants. Many in my family are 1st generation, my wife and my son in law, but they came legally and that is what I expect of all the people who want to come here. Now you want to forget they broke the law and legalize them just as if they had followed the rules. In other words rather waiting for 5 years like my wife or for 18 months like my son in law did they should have just sneeked in and that would be just fine with you. I pray to God that they never get any sort of legal status in this country unless they go home and follow the rules to get here.

Funny you should say that. My car was hit while parked the other day. I haven’t checked in my property damage or uninsured motorists coverage will pay for it. I figure it’s about 600 dollars worth for a small dent. But I’m 95% sure that it wasn’t an “illegal” that was responsible. My car was hit by a semi years ago and the guy took off. An “illegal” called the police with the license plates and when they called it over the radio the trucker heard it and came back. He was White but that didn’t help me because the guy fled the state leaving me and my insurance with large medical and property damage bills…

Now I doubt you, even if he left the state the cops would go after him if he failed to show proof of insurance or a valid license. Even if he did get away you could go to your Secretary of State and they will go after him through the Secretary of State where he lives. All states have receprocity.

Not just Europe but Japan too. All of Western Civilization is in decline except for us because our immigrants, legal and “illegal” have been providing us with much needed growth.

Japan is part of Western Civilization? The UK and Western Europe are in an economic decline? Why is the Euro and the Pound worth so much more than the dollar?

 

[Digitonomy]

our Holy Father wrote many things about how there is really no theological basis for these national conferences.

I’d like to hear the cite for that. It seems strange to me that he would bother writing such a thing, as it’s self-evident. Similarly, there is no theological basis for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, or other Vatican dicasteries.

Such artificial structures are a useful organizational tool to help the Church conduct its mission more efficiently. However, there is no theological reason they must or should exist. It has been the prudent choice of numerous popes, and the Church as a whole over the years, that a Vatican bureaucracy exist. The same is true of national bishops’ conferences over recent decades, although the powers of such conferences are considerably less than Vatican dicasteries.

 

[Ituyu]

Most of the illegals would have never been received legally. 10,000,000 mostly south of the border. Administratively an impossibility to register. 2nd and 3rd generation not asimulating with the American way of life. Many not speaking English and refusing to learn. Still carrying the the flags of other countries.

There is absolutely NO evidence that what you say is true! All evidence indicates that by the 3rd generation these immigrants have assimilated just as all other immigrants have assimilated before. Ten million sounds like a lot but remember they’ve been adding up for almost a quarter century. We did 2.5 million in one year, we could have done 10 million in 20 years.

Look they want to work here, enjoy our benefits, and become U.S citizens then assimulate! Join our military, protect and defend our country and constitution. I’ll give citizenship but they must hold our country above all OTHERS including their own past lands.

I think if that was the ground rules then 9 1/2 million would be going home very quickly. They don’t love this country, our way of life, our culture, and have no intentions of joining in on the big melting pot to spill their blood, but to use this country for their own selfish means which is as it has been to send money home and leave this country taking our social security

 

[Ituyu]

Look cruel is what has been done to the average U.S. citizen. Our children being told to adapt to their language, our public schools system becoming over crowded, waiting hours in an emergecy room because it is being used as a well clinic for the common cold so they don’t have to pay the doctor and will deadbeat the hospital. This is what I see and this is hard facts

Yes, immigration has some affects that can be construed in a harsh bitter and unealistic manner. However, most of our most established experts agree that we need them:

"But for Los Angeles County, the informal economy has been better than nothing — and nothing, urban affairs expert and Economic Roundtable President Daniel Flaming says, is what the county would have had otherwise.

“When manufacturing collapsed, there was no effort to salvage the infrastructure for other purposes,” he said. “The formal economy here has been stagnant since the beginning of the 1990s. The only growth has been in under-the-table employment, predominantly fueled by desperate workers and in particular undocumented workers.”

latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fi-immigecon1oct01,1,2312516.story

 

[estesbob]

The USCCB is the governing body of the Church in America. It has legitimate opinions and concerns over the issue and it supports no political party over the other. But, let’s say that you’re correct, where have they gone contrary to either Pope’s message?

It is NOT the governing Body of the Church in the United States, Each diocese is governed by a Bishop and he anwers directly to the Pope. However it is a part of the magestrium and it’s teachings should be given great deference by American catholics.

 

[Ituyu]

No they are not, you just pulled that out of your head or some other place. Most of the kids in Chicago public schools are black and their parents have been in this country for generations. Don’t doubt my word, in the restaurant she works in a good waitress can make $300 to $400 a night on tips.

No actually:

“The most dramatic growth is seen in the increase of Latino and Asian students. Latino students are the most segregated minority group, with steadily rising segregation since federal data were first collected a third of a century ago. Latinos are segregated both by race and poverty, and a pattern of linguistic segregation is also developing. Latinos have by far the highest high school dropout rates.”

civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/reseg03/resegregation03.php

but they came legally and that is what I expect of all the people who want to come here. Now you want to forget they broke the law and legalize them just as if they had followed the rules. In other words rather waiting for 5 years like my wife or for 18 months like my son in law did they should have just sneeked in and that would be just fine with you.

Two different things. Here:

Problems of our low births and aging population.

globalaging.org/health/world/depopulationeuropejapan.htm