Usccb

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SacredHeartFan

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Does anyone else here believe that the USCCB has too much power over the liturgy here in the U.S.?
 
If they didn’t have such a horrible reputation, they could exercise their power without problems. As it is…
 
I just think that they give too many options for the liturgy. The Roman Missial is strict allowing few options but the USCCB’s GIRM gives leeway to alot of things.
 
SacredHeartFan said:
I just think that they give too many options for the liturgy. The Roman Missial is strict allowing few options but the USCCB’s GIRM gives leeway to alot of things.
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The USCCB are among the successors of the Apostles, let us remember. St. Peter was first among the Apostles, but the Eleven were not his lackeys.

Rome rightly gives discretion to local bishops, but whatever leeway the USCCB gives in our GIRM is leeway allowed by Rome:

At the request of His Excellency, the Most Reverend Wilton D. Gregory, Bishop of Belleville, President of the Conference of Bishops of the United States of America, in a letter of November 13, 2002, and in virtue of the faculties granted to this Congregation by the Supreme Pontiff JOHN PAUL II, we gladly confirm and approve the English translation of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, excerpted from the third typical edition of the same Missal, as in the attached copy.

Two copies of the printed text should be forwarded to this Congregation.

All things to the contrary notwithstanding.

From the offices of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, March 17, 2003.
  • Francis Cardinal Arinze
    Prefect
  • Franciscus Pius Tamburrino
    Archbishop-Secretary
 
SacredHeartFan said:
Does anyone else here believe that the USCCB has too much power over the liturgy here in the U.S.?
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No. This question doesn’t make sense to me. Are you questioning the Church as a whole or simply the Church in the United States?
 
Tietjen said:
No. This question doesn’t make sense to me. Are you questioning the Church as a whole or simply the Church in the United States?
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The church in the United States.
(i.e. communion in the hand, kneelers, holding hands, etc.)
 
SacredHeartFan said:
I just think that they give too many options for the liturgy. The Roman Missial is strict allowing few options but the USCCB’s GIRM gives leeway to alot of things.
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In what area(s), specifically, does it seem to you the USCCB has overstepped its authority?

tee
 
SacredHeartFan said:
The church in the United States.
(i.e. communion in the hand, kneelers, holding hands, etc.)
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Well, in the case of receiving Holy Communion in the hand as opposed to directly on the tongue, I know that the Vatican has allowed this. On the holding hands during the Our Father that is often seen in some parishes in the U.S., the USCCB has made no statement either condemning the practice or supporting it. The GIRM is silent on the subject, and I personally take that to mean don’t do it. As for kneelers, I will assume that you are talking about the kneelers in the pews and not the Communion rails? If so, it is my belief that there should be kneelers since it is still required for the laity to kneel during the consecration. If however, a Church does not have kneelers :(, I believe that we are still required to kneel (if medically able to do so) and I am my family are and therefore do. The kneeler issue along with the holding hands issue should probably be addressed at the parish or diocese level. The USCCB shouldn’t be looked at as though they messed something up. They didn’t. As for the Holy Communion in the hand, that remains a decision left to the individual. The Vatican allows each person to decide how to receive. I personally feel uncomfortable receiving in the hand as for me, it seems a little too similar to self-communing .
 
SacredHeartFan said:
Does anyone else here believe that the USCCB has too much power over the liturgy here in the U.S.?
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They exercise the authority that the Church has given them. They don’t take actions without the approval of the appropriate officials in Rome.

Do you think the Church has made a mistake in how she chooses to govern herself?
 
SacredHeartFan said:
see above post.
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What [user]Tietjen[/user] said. (Except that I am not at all sure what you mean by “kneelers” wrt this question?)

To restate my question more specifically:

What has the USCCB said/done about:
  • communion in the hand
  • kneelers
  • holding hands (? what in the world has this to so with the USCCB ?) :confused:
That is outside the authority granted it by the Holy See in her laws (general and particular)?

Or is it your feeling that the Holy See ought not grant authority to the several episcopal conferences at all?

tee
 
The Bishops in the United States job is to implement the Liturgy faithfully.

Now we know that many of them have not done a good job and some have betrayed the faith. The Lavender Mafia still holds on and twists the faith. But that doesn’t mean that all of them are unfaithful, there are some very good faithful Bishops and all of them deserve our respect and prayers.

Our Bishops are men who have to live up to their office, we respect and honor the office that they have to live with. God will judge their souls and we should pray for our Bishops and seek ways to encourage them as they have tough lives. I honor, pray for and support my Bishop to lead us more faithfully.

Even Peter betrayed the faith, yet we do honor him because he repented, was chosen by Jesus, was an Apostle and led the early Church. So we should listen to the Bishops even if they make poor decisions as long as we aren’t forced to deny the faith. We might think they may make a poor decision but we are in sales not management.

We wouldn’t be complaining if they stood up for the faith and supported Rome 100%, so I am not sure if they have too much power or not. It is as it is, I am not sure if there is a better solution other than promoting faithfulness and praying for our Bishops.

Raise good holy Priests and we will eventually have many good holy Bishops. Have large families many sons and daughters, we need good Catholic sisters, brothers, mothers and fathers.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Thanks for all the info! all though I’m not sure what the “Lavender Mafia” is, but oh well. I understnad now! 👍
 
SacredHeartFan said:
Does anyone else here believe that the USCCB has too much power over the liturgy here in the U.S.?
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Absolutely and most of them guard it with everything they have. Many have exercised this power poorly, not only concerning the liturgy, but the issue of gay seminarians, their handling of the sexual abuse crisis & their failure to disallow politicians like Ted Kennedy & John Kerry access to the Eucharist, has made many of us leery of their power.

The latest news re the USCCB… not only did they issue a glowingly positive review of the homosexual propaganda film “Brokeback Mountain”…NOW, they given a resounding yes to the film of the anti-Catholic novel “The Golden Compass.” Of course, as long as the laity is silent about it it will continue. Letters people…letters.

When they elect the most successful Bishop in the US. Church, Bishop Bruskewitz of Lincoln Ne.as their president, maybe I’ll be able to have faith in this organization once again. 😦
 
Please cite your specific objection about the rules for conduct of the liturgy in the US which are different from those of the universal Church, and the specific USCCB document in which these practices are described, prescribed or allowed. Specifically where is the USCCB document allowing the congregation to stand during the consecration as a regular practice and to receive communion in the hand–and where is the universal Church document that differs from the US bishops. what is the USCCB document that allows or prescribes hand holding during the Our Father (or any other hand gestures by the laity).
 
SacredHeartFan said:
Thanks for all the info! all though I’m not sure what the “Lavender Mafia” is, but oh well. I understnad now! 👍
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The term “Lavendar Mafia” implies both secret and organized criminality and indulged homosexuality. If the poster has some specific charges to make against specific individuals, with sufficient evidence to make such serious accusations, then let those charges be made. Otherwise, it is reprehensible to so indiscrimately level such a term against the heirarchy. :mad:
 
The term “Lavendar Mafia” implies both secret and organized criminality and indulged homosexuality. If the poster has some specific charges to make against specific individuals, with sufficient evidence to make such serious accusations, then let those charges be made. Otherwise, it is reprehensible to so indiscrimately level such a term against the heirarchy.

Those darn secret organizations, they just won’t give us a membership list.

Consider, before you vent any more at the poor poster, that there are a limited number of explanations for the homosexual shennanigans in the Church over the last few decades. If there isn’t some “lavender mafia” that coerced some of the Bishops to allow this stuff, then I guess you have to say the Bishop actually wanted it to happen, eh?
 
I fail to see any connection between supposed homosexual shenanigans and alleged liturgical shenanigans?

:twocents: Seems to be an *ad hominem *(ad homines?) smear tactic, better to be left ignored in this thread. :twocents:

tee
 
CradleCath said:
Absolutely and most of them guard it with everything they have. Many have exercised this power poorly, not only concerning the liturgy, but the issue of gay seminarians, their handling of the sexual abuse crisis & their failure to disallow politicians like Ted Kennedy & John Kerry access to the Eucharist, has made many of us leery of their power.

The latest news re the USCCB… not only did they issue a glowingly positive review of the homosexual propaganda film “Brokeback Mountain”…NOW, they given a resounding yes to the film of the anti-Catholic novel “The Golden Compass.” Of course, as long as the laity is silent about it it will continue. Letters people…letters.

When they elect the most successful Bishop in the US. Church, Bishop Bruskewitz of Lincoln Ne.as their president, maybe I’ll be able to have faith in this organization once again. 😦
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This seems like a tad cynical view of the USCCB. I’m not sure why the USCCB continually gets raked over the coals for two lousy movie reviews (one of which they adjusted the rating to “morally offensive” and the other of which they pulled entirely). And yet it remains a perpetual mainstay of canon fodder to be used against the bishops whenever anyone, anywhere, for any reason has a problem with something they do. 🤷

Perhaps it would be helpful to the OP to distinguish. First, we have the USCCB as referring to the collection of US bishops. In this capacity, they vote on things like the new English translation of the liturgy, or on curriculum guidelines for High School religion classes.

Second, we have the USCCB as referring to the non-episcopal staff that assists the conference of bishops (in much the same way as a chancery staff helps the local bishop). This staff consists of priests, religious, and lay people. The two guys who do movie reviews for the USCCB are laymen. They do not put each and every movie review before the entire body of bishops to be voted on and approved. They are just movie reviews that they offer to help Catholics make informed decisions about what to watch. They are not infallible pronouncements, nor are they intended to represent what the entire body of bishops thinks about an individual movie.

Further, I would say that the USCCB doesn’t really have much “power” at all. Most of what they do is only recommendations. Each bishop them decides for himself whether to utilize them. The USCCB came up with guidlelines for child protection in the wake of the scandal, but no bishop was required to follow them (even though all but one did). I can’t think of one example where the USCCB votes on something and then it becomes law for all dioceses in the US (without going to Rome). Can you? If they can’t even do that, what “power” do they really have?
 
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