Use of Communion Rail

[bknebel]

Dearest Brothers and Sisters,

I was just reading a bunch in the Orans/Hand holding Our father post. I was wondering, does anyone know if a priest could in theory still use the communion rail as it was intended in the Novus Ordo?

My home parish has the communion rail still intact (beautiful granite) and I was hoping sometime to see it used as intended.

Thanks,

Basil

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I should think that barring the bishop saying otherwise, it could be used.

 

[msproule]

I know of many parishes that do this. I suspect permission should come from the Bishop first.

 

[JNB]

There are a few parishes that celebrate the current missal that use the altar rail for communion still, prehaps about 100 or so in the US. While the Bishops can not force priests to not give communion to those who use the altar rails for communion, he can make lives for priests who do so miserable if he wants to, such as the case that took place at a parish in the Arlington diocese that served Chistendom college.

My home parish still uses the altar rail for all of its masses, though if someone stands in front of the rail instead of kneels, they will be given communion without objection.

bknebel:

Dearest Brothers and Sisters,

I was just reading a bunch in the Orans/Hand holding Our father post. I was wondering, does anyone know if a priest could in theory still use the communion rail as it was intended in the Novus Ordo?

My home parish has the communion rail still intact (beautiful granite) and I was hoping sometime to see it used as intended.

Thanks,

Basil

 

[mgy100]

I’m not that old. It was only 12-14 years ago the italian ethnic roman catholic parish made everyone kneel at the communion rail to recieve communion and only the priest distributed.
Seriously, who cares what the bishop says, if you want to get your parish to use it, do it. You probably won’t win, considering in our local parishes almost noone even receives on the tongue.

 

[AlexB]

This thread lists a number of N.O. parishes that use the communion rail:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=69392

 

[MamaSusie]

My church has 3 English masses and 7 Latin masses per week, and the communion rail is used in all Latin masses, and by choice in the English masses. I love the way my church doesn’t have an “us vs them” attitude. We’re all Catholics, and we respect the different worship/adoration preferences of eachother. Incidentally, none of this would be happening if people who felt driven to do so hadn’t ASKED. Start there!

 

[JimG]

My parish still uses the communion rail at daily Mass; however communicants stand instead of kneel at the rail.

Receiving communion is not the only purpose of a communion rail. It also establishes a boundary between the sacred space of the sanctuary and the rest of the church.

 

[Eireann]

mgy100:

I’m not that old. It was only 12-14 years ago the italian ethnic roman catholic parish made everyone kneel at the communion rail to recieve communion and only the priest distributed.
Seriously, who cares what the bishop says, if you want to get your parish to use it, do it. You probably won’t win, considering in our local parishes almost noone even receives on the tongue.

The priests are I hope under the authority of the Bishop, so unless disobedience is the order of the day, I’d say a word in the Bishops ear would be advisable. :bible1:

 

[MusicMan]

Since the posture legislated in the General Instruction is that we are to receive standing, wouldn’t that prohibit a priest from using the Communion Rail with the communicants kneeling as he administered the Sacrament?

I know we cannot be denied communion for kneeling when we receive, but does this clarification really grant priests permission to use the Communion Rail?

 

[JNB]

In the end, it is up to the Bishop on if a altar rail can be used for communion or not. In t he case of the chapel at Christendom College in Virginia, the Bishop forbid the priests there from distribution at the altar rail(though many still kneel for communion in line), in other cases, bishops have used altar rails to continue to be used, even the LA Archdiocese has 4 parishes that still use the altar rail for communion. The USCCB has NO binding authority on what a Bishop decides to do.

MusicMan:

Since the posture legislated in the General Instruction is that we are to receive standing, wouldn’t that prohibit a priest from using the Communion Rail with the communicants kneeling as he administered the Sacrament?

I know we cannot be denied communion for kneeling when we receive, but does this clarification really grant priests permission to use the Communion Rail?

 

[MusicMan]

JNB:

In the end, it is up to the Bishop on if a altar rail can be used for communion or not. In t he case of the chapel at Christendom College in Virginia, the Bishop forbid the priests there from distribution at the altar rail(though many still kneel for communion in line), in other cases, bishops have used altar rails to continue to be used, even the LA Archdiocese has 4 parishes that still use the altar rail for communion. The USCCB has NO binding authority on what a Bishop decides to do.

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal is promulgated by the Holy See and it is the binding authority on how the Mass is to be celebrated.

Adaptations to the General Instruction for various countries are voted on and submitted for approval to the Holy See by the country’s Episcopal Conferences. Any alterations to the GIRM that this country’s Episcopal Conference, the USCCB, submits to and gets approved by Rome would be binding on all bishops in the US.

If the USCCB wanted an US adaptation to the General Instruction for all communicants to be required to receive by kneeling at the altar rail, and submitted this change to Rome and had it approved, then all parishes in the US would be required to comply.

 

[JNB]

Again, the USCCB can not bind a Bishop, since the USCCB itself has no authority over a Bishop, only Rome does. Even then Cardinal Ratzinger said the national bishops conferences are not part of the magesterium. The Bishop has the authority to allow differences in the liturgy as he sees fit. Case in point, there are probably a couple fo thousand parishes in the US that do not use or have any kneelers, while some Bishops have told these parishes to get kneelers, most have not, and allow them to stand for the concecration, and this was premitted under their own authority, even though the GIRM says that Catholics in the US should kneel for the concecration. The same goes for the small number of parishes that use the altar rail for communion. the Bishop if he so wants to, can allow a practice. In my diocese there is one good sized parish that still uses altar rails for communion and one smaller parish that uses altar rails for its daily masses, while conversely, the Newman center ran by Paulists has no kneelers, and has no plans to get kneelers so the practice there is to stand for the concecration.

What is sad is that for the most part, Bishops and clergy have not really enforced the kneeling for the concecration norms, while some Bishops and clergy, even before the defination of the norm in the US in 2002, were in many cases adamant about the elimination of the use of altar rails. concecration and some parishes use the altar rail for communion, so the GIRM has been very unevenly enforced. My opinion is to restore tradition, there should be less rubrics in the GIRM, so it would free up parishes and Pastors that want to restore tradition, while at the same time, parishes and Pastors that experiment still will continue to do so, despite what the GIRM may say.

MusicMan:

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal is promulgated by the Holy See and it is the binding authority on how the Mass is to be celebrated.

Adaptations to the General Instruction for various countries are voted on and submitted for approval to the Holy See by the country’s Episcopal Conferences. Any alterations to the GIRM that this country’s Episcopal Conference, the USCCB, submits to and gets approved by Rome would be binding on all bishops in the US.

If the USCCB wanted an US adaptation to the General Instruction for all communicants to be required to receive by kneeling at the altar rail, and submitted this change to Rome and had it approved, then all parishes in the US would be required to comply.

 

[MusicMan]

JNB:

Again, the USCCB can not bind a Bishop, since the USCCB itself has no authority over a Bishop, only Rome does. Even then Cardinal Ratzinger said the national bishops conferences are not part of the magesterium.

As I said previously, “The General Instruction of the Roman Missal is promulgated by the Holy See and it is the binding authority on how the Mass is to be celebrated.” This is a fact.

You are technically correct that the USCCB cannot bind a bishop on matters of liturgy. However, any US specific changes to the liturgy that the USCCB votes on and submits to Rome for approval are binding on all US Dioceses if Rome approves of the changes. The technicallity is that Rome promulgates the GIRM, and the approved US specific changes submitted by the USCCB have been approved by and included in the GIRM by Rome. It is indeed the Holy See that is binding the Bishops and not acutally the USCCB.

JNB:

The Bishop has the authority to allow differences in the liturgy as he sees fit.

Here you are not correct. The Bishop is bound to follow the liturgy as promulgated by Rome in the General Instruction of the Romal Missal. The Bishop may only change things as permitted him in the GIRM. An example of this is the posture following the Agnus Dei, whether the faithful stand or kneel. The decision is left to the authority of the Bishop.

JNB:

Case in point, there are probably a couple fo thousand parishes in the US that do not use or have any kneelers, while some Bishops have told these parishes to get kneelers, most have not, and allow them to stand for the concecration, and this was premitted under their own authority, even though the GIRM says that Catholics in the US should kneel for the concecration.

These people are still required by the GIRM to kneel during the Eucharistic Prayers. Although they would have to kneel on the floor, no exception is made in the GIRM to allow the faithful in the US to stand in the absence of kneelers. The Bishop is also not granted authority by the GIRM to allow the faithful of his Diocese to stand in the absence of kneelers.

JNB:

The same goes for the small number of parishes that use the altar rail for communion. the Bishop if he so wants to, can allow a practice.

In my initial post about this, I do believe I was looking for evidence that this is permissible. I haven’t yet seen it. I’m asking more out of curiousity and a thirst for knowledge than being legalistic, mind you.

JNB:

the Newman center ran by Paulists has no kneelers, and has no plans to get kneelers so the practice there is to stand for the concecration.

And these people are also required by the GIRM to kneel. Please see my above comments.

JNB:

What is sad is that for the most part, Bishops and clergy have not really enforced the kneeling for the concecration norms, while some Bishops and clergy, even before the defination of the norm in the US in 2002, were in many cases adamant about the elimination of the use of altar rails. concecration and some parishes use the altar rail for communion, so the GIRM has been very unevenly enforced. My opinion is to restore tradition, there should be less rubrics in the GIRM, so it would free up parishes and Pastors that want to restore tradition, while at the same time, parishes and Pastors that experiment still will continue to do so, despite what the GIRM may say.

And here I agree with you completely.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

bknebel:

Dearest Brothers and Sisters,

I was just reading a bunch in the Orans/Hand holding Our father post. I was wondering, does anyone know if a priest could in theory still use the communion rail as it was intended in the Novus Ordo?

My home parish has the communion rail still intact (beautiful granite) and I was hoping sometime to see it used as intended.

Thanks,

Basil

You mean, like this Novus Ordo?

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Even the bishop distributes communion at the rail when he comes. We receive the Host after it is intincted in the Precious Blood. It must be received on the tongue as well. This is explained prior to Mass when there are lots of guests.

We also so this at my parish, and it too was never forbidden. People just think it went out the window with V-2, but that is not the case. For those wondering, the center altar is used during the week and at low masses. I believe it was installed prior to the current pastor. But, even those celebrated at the center altar are ad orientem.

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[jimmy]

Lux_et_veritas:

You mean, like this Novus Ordo?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Even the bishop distributes communion at the rail when he comes. We receive the Host after it is intincted in the Precious Blood. It must be received on the tongue as well. This is explained prior to Mass when there are lots of guests.

We also so this at my parish, and it too was never forbidden. People just think it went out the window with V-2, but that is not the case. For those wondering, the center altar is used during the week and at low masses. I believe it was installed prior to the current pastor. But, even those celebrated at the center altar are ad orientem.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Lux, I envy you for your amazing Novus Ordo Mass. That is how the NO Mass was meant to be celebrated. It would be nice if all parishes celebrated like that.

 

[AltarMan]

If God and His Son Jesus the Christ received as much attention as that freaking altar railing, the entire world would be a better place…

 

[jimmy]

AltarMan:

If God and His Son Jesus the Christ received as much attention as that freaking altar railing, the entire world would be a better place…

If that altar rail recieved more atention maybe some Catholics would know their faith.

 

[AltarMan]

jimmy:

If that altar rail recieved more atention maybe some Catholics would know their faith.

Yeah, that’ll do it! Preach on the history and use of the vaunted altar railing and soon all Catholics will know their faith!

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

AltarMan:

If God and His Son Jesus the Christ received as much attention as that freaking altar railing, the entire world would be a better place…

Altar Man, I was not even going to reply to your childish post. It never ceases to amaze me how you can ignite one thread after another. You have become the official flame-thrower for the opinionated, taking more threads down the path of violent, intolerable discussions.

If you don’t like altar rails and have opinions against them, by all means discuss it. But please check the flame-thrower at the door. And, if you can’t see how you are responsible for igniting this thread, then you really have a problem.

The altar rails were never intended be ripped out and they were done so without permission. Show me in any Vatican 2 documents where the rails were to be removed? Now, you find fault with those who choose to keep using them and you find fault with pastors who care to take the time to deliver Holy Communion this way, including Fr. Perrone?

How sad . While those of us who use the rail do so comfortably at my parish, we don’t bother any one else. Yet, it is the kind of intolerance that you display that causes so much pain within the Church.

Do you feel you really did Christ some kind of service by your hateful remark? Were you truly doing the Lord’s work or simply exercising some self-righteousness and judgmentalism?

I’ll pray for you that the Holy Spirit reveals to your heart the intolerance you have for Catholics who want to worship their Lord in this manner. Apparently, you feel godly enough to discern that Jesus himself has a preference for how we receive Communion, otherwise, you would not be so critical of a valid method to recieve Holy Communion.

And, if you want to discuss norms, then we will do it. And, for the record the picture you see is shot in a parish that never ripped out its rails and never stopped using them. Since Vatican 2 never called for the removal of rails, how can we be wrong? Furthermore, it is very obvious that it is with the blessing of the Cardinal and bishops because when they celebrate Mass at my parish, they deliver communion through intinction (on the tongue) at the Communion rail - the same manner used 365 days a year… This makes it all too obvious, that the bishops are fine with it. So, where the bishops and cardinal are fine with it, you feel justified to flamefully attack it? Being that they are hardly traditional in their worshiping styles, they show something you dont: Charity and tolerance.

You need an attitude check, and probably a time-out.