Use of copyrighted sound bites / music clips - stealing? Infringement? Or fair use?

[LP4H]

Hi all,

So, my brother and I are currently planning to start filming a series for Youtube, which will also be advertised on Facebook, and hopefully even burnt to DVDs and sold online by us (should anyone want a copy) as well as a local music shop (I’m friends with the owner). Here’s the thing: before I do anything, I want to make sure I’m not infringing on any copyrights and/or stealing. This series will make extensive use of film, as in old movies, but only movies that I can be sure are in the public domain. I was also planning to make use of sound / music clips & bites, but after a search on fair use, it seems even very short sound clips don’t fall under that protection IF the product is sold. These would be in addition to music and sound clips that we have created ourselves as well as music provided by local bands / friends (we would be upfront and let them know we can’t really pay them, but will gladly credit them, list there websites, give them a shout-out etc. etc.).

Now, here’s what we were planning: We were going to make a test-run first episode, with a few assorted sound bites taken from TV series, old commercials, and so on. Most would be only 2-3 seconds long, maybe slightly longer. There was also one piece of music I’d like to use that I can’t verify as public domain but is, to the best of my knowledge, not officially available (there’s virtually no info on it I can find). This test run (which we would mainly be using to drum up support & contributors for the main series) would go on Youtube, etc., and we would burn DVD copies, but they would given out as freebies; We’d be making NO money on this. The main series that would follow, should we receive enough interest, would include only sound effects, music, etc. that we create or is public domain, and those episodes WOULD be sold.

SO, after that long-winded explanation, is there a moral danger in anything I’ve said here? Would including sound clips that are copyrighted in that test episode be infringing, or does it fall under fair use? Keep in mind, I’m not using Beatles or Michael Jackson songs here, just short little humorous sound bites. It would be on Youtube, and given out as free DVDs, but we wouldn’t be making a dime on this. We would only accept money for things with content that’s public domain or self-created.

Also, in the same vein: Let’s say we rip a sound clip or even an entire soundtrack from an old silent or other such film or even old commercial that is definitely in the public domain - is that violating some kind of copyright? Because even though the source is public domain, we’re liberating that audio. Is that a whole separate area? Only reason I’m concerned about this is that there’s an old John Wayne movie I know of where the film itself lapsed into public domain, but the soundtrack (as in music, voice, sound effects, everything) did not, and it wasn’t uncommon to come across copies with completely re-dubbed soundtracks. So, that has me wondering. I find copyright law often confusing, so any and all help is appreciated.

One last thing: I’m not trying to rationalize any potential sin here. We don’t HAVE to use any humorous sound clips, they would add an extra element of humor, but aren’t absolutely necessary. My brother and I were blessed with, I think, a lot of creativity in this area, and the more that can be “all us”, the better, no doubt. So, if y’all think it would be better not even to tread in that often murky area of copyright law, we won’t. But, if it’s clear we won’t be infringing on any copyrights, that would be great.

Thanks for your time and help, it’s certainly appreciated!

 

[1ke]

So, my brother and I are currently planning to start filming a series for Youtube, which will also be advertised on Facebook, and hopefully even burnt to DVDs and sold online by us (should anyone want a copy) as well as a local music shop (I’m friends with the owner). Here’s the thing: before I do anything, I want to make sure I’m not infringing on any copyrights and/or stealing.

Good plan.

This series will make extensive use of film, as in old movies, but only movies that I can be sure are in the public domain. I was also planning to make use of sound / music clips & bites, but after a search on fair use, it seems even very short sound clips don’t fall under that protection IF the product is sold.

Forget about fair use. You need to get permission and/or pay royalty fees for use of commercial music, film, sounds, photos, etc.

These would be in addition to music and sound clips that we have created ourselves as well as music provided by local bands / friends (we would be upfront and let them know we can’t really pay them, but will gladly credit them, list there websites, give them a shout-out etc. etc.).

Obtain written permission to use their materials on a royalty free basis.

Also obtain a written model release for anyone appearing on camera. Include the statement that you retain ownership/copyright and are not paying royalty fees. You can find sample model release forms on stock photo websites.

Now, here’s what we were planning: We were going to make a test-run first episode, with a few assorted sound bites taken from TV series, old commercials, and so on. Most would be only 2-3 seconds long, maybe slightly longer. There was also one piece of music I’d like to use that I can’t verify as public domain but is, to the best of my knowledge, not officially available (there’s virtually no info on it I can find). This test run (which we would mainly be using to drum up support & contributors for the main series) would go on Youtube, etc., and we would burn DVD copies, but they would given out as freebies; We’d be making NO money on this. The main series that would follow, should we receive enough interest, would include only sound effects, music, etc. that we create or is public domain, and those episodes WOULD be sold.

Doesn’t matter whether you make money or give it away. It is a copyright violation. Don’t do it.

There are plenty of websites where you can purchase royalty free music and sounds, royalty free stock photos, royalty free B-roll, and some that offer use of commercial films, TV shows, etc, for a fee.

SO, after that long-winded explanation, is there a moral danger in anything I’ve said here?

Yes.

Would including sound clips that are copyrighted in that test episode be infringing, or does it fall under fair use?

No. It is not “fair use”.

Keep in mind, I’m not using Beatles or Michael Jackson songs here, just short little humorous sound bites.

It doesn’t matter whose they are, if they aren’t yours then you do not have the rights to use them. You must obtain those rights through written permission. Whether or not the right holder wants a fee is up to them.

It would be on Youtube, and given out as free DVDs, but we wouldn’t be making a dime on this. We would only accept money for things with content that’s public domain or self-created.

It doesn’t matter whether or not you are “making money”. It matters that you are using content that does not legally belong to you.

Also, in the same vein: Let’s say we rip a sound clip or even an entire soundtrack from an old silent or other such film or even old commercial that is definitely in the public domain - is that violating some kind of copyright?

If the copyright has expired, then it is not protected. But be warned, just because it is "old’ it is not necessarily in the public domain.

Because even though the source is public domain, we’re liberating that audio. If that a whole separate area? Only reason I’m concerned about this is that there’s an old John Wayne movie I know of where the film itself lapsed into public domain, but the soundtrack (as in music, voice, sound effects, everything) did not, and it wasn’t uncommon to come across copies with completely re-dubbed soundtracks. So, that has me wondering. I find copyright law often confusing, so any and all help is appreciated.

That is why you need a lawyer. We cannot give legal advice on this site. You astutely realized that the film, soundtrack, songs, etc, are all separately copyrightable items and you must do a lot of due diligence to ensure you are operating legally.

Always ask.

One last thing: I’m not trying to rationalize any potential sin here. We don’t HAVE to use any humorous sound clips, they would add an extra element of humor, but aren’t absolutely necessary. My brother and I were blessed with, I think, a lot of creativity in this area, and the more that can be “all us”, the better, no doubt. So, if y’all think it would be better not even to tread in that often murky area of copyright law, we won’t. But, if it’s clear we won’t be infringing on any copyrights, that would be great.

Thanks for your time and help, it’s certainly appreciated!

Yes, original work is always the most straightfoward and least likely to get you into legal trouble.

I can recommend the book Staying Legal: A Guide To Copyright and Trademark Use by Francine Ward, JD. It’s written for individuals in the training industry, but I think it applies to what you are asking.

 

[LP4H]

Ah, thanks 1ke. That was very helpful. This is exactly why I asked, I don’t want even the possibility of sin, especially if this admittedly goofy project could lead to something bigger (and, call me dreamer, but I think there’s a chance it can). Couple points:

I absolutely intended on making sure there was written proof as far as anything done for us, whether it be music or acting. My brother is gifted musically, so he can handle a lot of the music himself.

Also, only films I’m absolutely sure are public domain would be used - I know a film merely being “old” isn’t enough, as well as the fact restorations, new prints from different / unique sources, etc. wouldn’t fall under public domain.

Any sound clips / music from commercial works I will make sure come from strictly public domain sources - provided liberating the audio wouldn’t violate any laws. That one will take a bit more research.