Use of NFP (Yet ANOTHER birth control thread)

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Hey all,

I’ve been able to watch Fr. Carapi (sp?) a grand total of once and I really enjoyed it. This is was several months back. He was talking about birth control.

I think I’m a little confused about what he said. He, of course, condemned artificial birth control, but then went on to talk about how not everyone was meant to have 5000 kids. Some just meant to have 1 or 2 or whatever. But then he went on to talk about NFP and how it wasn’t supposed to be used as indefinite contraception, but mostly just to space the kids out.

I’m confused…because if someone isn’t meant to have a bunch of kids, how could one avoid without using NFP? Did he mean that it was in God’s hands? That if you weren’t meant to have a bunch of kids, that you wouldn’t, because God is in control?

Let me be frank. I’m your friendly neighbordhood Protestant who happily uses the pill…and please…no lectures on how evil it is and on how it works and all that. I know ALL that, okay? So any patronizing little lectures will be promptly ignored.

I also know that I don’t want a million kids. I also know the dangers of having kids later in age…and YES I know that there are plenty of 42 year olds that have kids with no problem. But I don’t want to be a baby factory up until menopause.

I currently have a 1 year old. I want to start on another one sometime next year maybe. Then I probably want to be done. I want to raise my kids and have some semblance of a life back as they grow up.

Some would say that’s selfish. It might be. I honestly don’t know.

If I were to take the Tiber plunge, contraception would be one of my very last hold outs.

Anyway, sorry…that last bit was sort of a whiny rant. The real purpose of the thread was to see what you guys think about what priest said…I won’t attempt his name again…I don’t think I spell it correctly.

Thoughts?
 
My husband and I have been using NFP since we got married. We got pregnant on our honeymoon:) While it was surprise, it worked out ok except that now I have to work as well. We cannot afford to have another child until ours starts K and we don’t have to pay daycare costs

.And BTW let me get it out of the way now, we have cut all the corners we can unless we live in a gun ridden neighborhood in a city that has the highest crime rate in the US. So yes I HAVE to work to make ends meet.

Being Catholic, the Church says this “The spouses have the inalienable right to found a family and to decide on the spacing of births and the number of children to be born, taking into full consideration their duties towards themselves, their children already born, the family and society, in a just hierarchy of values…”
 
Its all about the mindset. Rather than starting off your marriage saying, “this is how my life is going to be,” you start off with an idea of how you would like it to be, and then take it one day at a time, always seeking the Lord’s will in your life. Our circumstances change, sometimes our outlook changes. Maybe God will lead you to have only one or two children, maybe not. We should always be seeking His will in our lives, especially when it involves the creation of new souls.
 
For what it’s worth, you might google One More Soul, or Janet Smith, and get her updated CD on “Contraception - Why Not?”

She has a PhD, I think in Philosophy, and teaches Theology; I don’t have the most recent version, but the prior version was a talk she gave to priests about contraception. She has some really interesting questions and observations.

NFP was taught by Mother Theresa to illiterate Hindus, so it is not something that is hard to learn. It does take the cooperation of both spouses; but again, listen to Janet Smith on some of her observations as to the differences in attitutdes between those who use the pill, and those who don’t.

Oh, and China has adopted NFP as a valid means of birth control - it works.

Just some thoughts. I think you can get the CD for about $10. It is worth the investment if for no other reason than it is not a polemical approach; it calls you to think, and reflect on some things. Whether you change your approach is going to be up to you. If it were me, I would want something that would have a very positive effect on my marriage.
 
Curious said:
… condemned artificial birth control, but then went on to talk about how not everyone was meant to have 5000 kids. Some just meant to have 1 or 2 or whatever. But then he went on to talk about NFP and how it wasn’t supposed to be used as indefinite contraception…
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Marriage is primarily for procreation but not exclusive to such. A marriage designed to prevent pregnancy is not a valid marriage by Catholic standards. A valid marriage may through consent of both the husband and wife limit procreation. The limiting of procreation can be done through celibacy or NFP methods. The use of outside methods as condoms, pills, sterilization are considered sins. clear enough? Do not worry many Catholics feel the same as you
 
Thanks for the honest question. I love posts like yours.

It can be really hard to understand the difference between NFP and contraception like condoms until you have actually experienced NFP.

Unlike artificial birth control (ABC), NFP is not a manipulation of either spouse’s body to avoid havng kids. Instead, it is a choice to NOT act at a time when pregancy would be likely. A decision NOT to make love at a particular time can never be sinful in the way that chosing to TAKE the pleasure and bonding of sex while purposely defeating the fertility function of your body (ABC) is.

Theoretically, NFP users can also suffer lesser damage to their marraige via an anti-child mindset, but it isn’t the same as actively committing ABC. In my 8 years of NFP marriage living, I’ve found that NFP has a subtle built-in mechanism towards preventing that from happening. With the pill or condoms, there SEEMS to be nothing sacrificed when avoiding preganancy. Thus, those behaviors tend to be self-perpetuating and inherently encourage the practitioners to continue avoiding kids. NFP, on the other hand, requires a SACRIFICE if the couple is to avoid pregnancy. (In our experience, fertile times are when my wife is most inclined to WANT to!) This results in us monthly examining the seriousness of our reasons not to have more kids in a way that ABC never does. Sacrifice is difficult, by definition. But we believe that God established sex as a mysterious means for strengthening our marriage and that it is NOT a coincidence that it is where kids come from as well. Think about that. The protestant positon on ABC inherently assumes that the fact that kids come from sex is a biological accident and irrelevant to the bonding benefit God built into married sex. Does that REALLY sound likely to you? If you’d like some more info on that matter, try “Good News About Sex & Marriage” by Christopher West.

We went through a time after having 2 kids when we thought 2 was PLENTY. I highly suspect that we’d still only have 2 if we used ABC. Instead, we came around to realizing that we had only shallow concerns about having more and now we have 3! No regrets either.
 
You can get “Contraception- Why Not” for free on One More Soul.
I also second “Good News on Sex and Marriage”. I got a copy via the public library (I just had to request it and that took a few days)
 
manualman said:
Thanks for the honest question. I love posts like yours.

It can be really hard to understand the difference between NFP and contraception like condoms until you have actually experienced NFP.

Unlike artificial birth control (ABC), NFP is not a manipulation of either spouse’s body to avoid havng kids. Instead, it is a choice to NOT act at a time when pregancy would be likely. A decision NOT to make love at a particular time can never be sinful in the way that chosing to TAKE the pleasure and bonding of sex while purposely defeating the fertility function of your body (ABC) is.

Theoretically, NFP users can also suffer lesser damage to their marraige via an anti-child mindset, but it isn’t the same as actively committing ABC. In my 8 years of NFP marriage living, I’ve found that NFP has a subtle built-in mechanism towards preventing that from happening. With the pill or condoms, there SEEMS to be nothing sacrificed when avoiding preganancy. Thus, those behaviors tend to be self-perpetuating and inherently encourage the practitioners to continue avoiding kids. NFP, on the other hand, requires a SACRIFICE if the couple is to avoid pregnancy. (In our experience, fertile times are when my wife is most inclined to WANT to!) This results in us monthly examining the seriousness of our reasons not to have more kids in a way that ABC never does. Sacrifice is difficult, by definition. But we believe that God established sex as a mysterious means for strengthening our marriage and that it is NOT a coincidence that it is where kids come from as well. Think about that. The protestant positon on ABC inherently assumes that the fact that kids come from sex is a biological accident and irrelevant to the bonding benefit God built into married sex. Does that REALLY sound likely to you? If you’d like some more info on that matter, try “Good News About Sex & Marriage” by Christopher West.

We went through a time after having 2 kids when we thought 2 was PLENTY. I highly suspect that we’d still only have 2 if we used ABC. Instead, we came around to realizing that we had only shallow concerns about having more and now we have 3! No regrets either.
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That is one of the best explanations I have seen on NFP, and in particular, how it is differentiated from ABC.
 
I find it a little offensive that you would call motherhood being a “baby factory”. Children are a gift, not a product. Motherhood is a blessing, not enslavement to a mewling litter (although some days it is hard to see the blessing). You are creating human lives. The secular mindset treats children as an inconvenience, but if you must, you should have your one or two accessory children after you’ve established yourself in a career that enables you to pay someone else to raise them so you can get cute mother’s day cards but not have to change too many diapers (I know some people have to use daycare! I don’t mean you! I mean people who would never even consider raising their own kids at home because it’s demeaning and brainless labor).
Some people are not meant to have any children. Some get only one or two and God intends that. I mean, Zachariah and Elizabeth only got John the Baptist, but i think they were pretty happy, no? The problem comes in when couples decide that they only want one or two or zero and don’t ask God’s (name removed by moderator)ut. We as Catholics are not against birth control. We are against contraception. You can use NFP in a selfish way just like any other form of birth control, and a mother not being mentally able to handle another child can be a valid reason to avoid pregnancy. You should just take it day by day as another poster said. If you can afford another child and care for it properly but you still don’t want one, you need to honestly ask yourself why? You may be considering things from a secular view instead of a godly lens. You may also have prudent reasons or concerns you just need to address (with your husband, too).
I did not mean to start off harsh, but the thought of planning only to have a couple of kids so you can get on with your life did not sound like you were planning with openness to God’s plan for your family. Pray on it with yo’ hubby.
 
Curious said:
Hey all,

I’ve been able to watch Fr. Carapi (sp?) a grand total of once and I really enjoyed it. This is was several months back. He was talking about birth control.

I think I’m a little confused about what he said. He, of course, condemned artificial birth control, but then went on to talk about how not everyone was meant to have 5000 kids. Some just meant to have 1 or 2 or whatever. But then he went on to talk about NFP and how it wasn’t supposed to be used as indefinite contraception, but mostly just to space the kids out.

I’m confused…because if someone isn’t meant to have a bunch of kids, how could one avoid without using NFP? Did he mean that it was in God’s hands? That if you weren’t meant to have a bunch of kids, that you wouldn’t, because God is in control?

Let me be frank. I’m your friendly neighbordhood Protestant who happily uses the pill…and please…no lectures on how evil it is and on how it works and all that. I know ALL that, okay? So any patronizing little lectures will be promptly ignored.

I also know that I don’t want a million kids. I also know the dangers of having kids later in age…and YES I know that there are plenty of 42 year olds that have kids with no problem. But I don’t want to be a baby factory up until menopause.

I currently have a 1 year old. I want to start on another one sometime next year maybe. Then I probably want to be done. I want to raise my kids and have some semblance of a life back as they grow up.

Some would say that’s selfish. It might be. I honestly don’t know.

If I were to take the Tiber plunge, contraception would be one of my very last hold outs.

Anyway, sorry…that last bit was sort of a whiny rant. The real purpose of the thread was to see what you guys think about what priest said…I won’t attempt his name again…I don’t think I spell it correctly.

Thoughts?
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I’m not really sure what you’re asking, but will take a stab with a few thoughts.

Well, when a Catholic gets married, one of the requirements is that they be open to having children. But, it’s not stipulated how many children they need to be open to having. That’s up to the couple, and should be based on multiple considerations.

Since NFP is the only acceptable (Catholic) method of family planning, except marital chastity, that’s pretty much what I’d expect a priest to talk about.

I want to raise my kids and have some semblance of a life back as they grow up. Some would say that’s selfish. It might be. I honestly don’t know

Um…yeah, that’s selfish, IMHO. You need to be ready to devote whatever time and effort it takes to raise your children, even into adulthood. What if your next child is developmentally disabled? You’ll never have a “life back” as you once had. (not to say that this would be a bad thing, but very possibly a cross to bear).

Now if you mean when they leave the nest, that’s a different thing…

One thing to consider with the “pill” from a moral perspective that you may not have considered; pre-conception contraception doesn’t cause early embryonic abortion like some forms of the “pill” that do…if that makes a difference to you.

So ignore it if you will, but you didn’t bring it up and not expect a response now, didja? 😉 That’s my physiologic non-lecture.
 
It’s Father Corapi, so you were pretty darn close. He’s a great priest, IMHO.
Curious said:
I think I’m a little confused about what he said. He, of course, condemned artificial birth control, but then went on to talk about how not everyone was meant to have 5000 kids. Some just meant to have 1 or 2 or whatever. But then he went on to talk about NFP and how it wasn’t supposed to be used as indefinite contraception, but mostly just to space the kids out.

I’m confused…because if someone isn’t meant to have a bunch of kids, how could one avoid without using NFP? Did he mean that it was in God’s hands? That if you weren’t meant to have a bunch of kids, that you wouldn’t, because God is in control?
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My husband’s grandparents had just one child in their 50+ years of marriage. They never used any form of birth control. I know several couples who have had great difficulty conceiving. Sometimes a woman who has had one or several children develops a health concern that makes it necessary for her to use NFP indefinitely. Or perhaps finances may limit a couple to only a few children.

If I judge what Father Corapi said correctly, I assume he was referring to any/all of the above reasons a couple may have few or no children. He may have had other reasons in mind as well.
 
I have a question about birth control. We have 5 children, had 6 miscarriages, and one child who had to have a bone marrow transplnat because of a life threatening rare disease. It is a 1 in 1.2 million disease, which we found out was gentic since her 3 month old baby brother now has. He too has his life in danger, is receiving chemo and has to under go a bmt. We can not do this again mentaly or physically to us or another child. Are there ever “special circumstances”? I/m afraid of NFP as a sole source of bc incase it failed. We are talking life and death here. We have always left it in God’s hands. But now we’re scard!
 
Exellent follow-up, which begs the question:

What about couples for which NFP doesn’t work? Or in circumstances (not to belittle yours, dlmlkae), where a pregnancy would be certain to be a life-and-death situation,such as a risk to a mom who had…severe cardiac disease or something else that was pretty certain to make childbirth fatal for her?
 
The only moral means to postpone pregnancy is abstinence, either periodic as in NFP or complete abstinence. It is a hard teaching. NFP is very effective, especially if you follow the “third phase only” rules- where you wait three days after ovulation- it makes the marital act available for only a very short time during the cycle, but it is an alternative to complete abstinence. In the past, complete abstinence was the only option available to Catholics for avoiding pregnancy. I think it is wonderful that with scientific advances, we now have another option.
 
Thanks for your comments. I have always been very strong in the same belief with NFP and now the devil is really tempting us. Here we have to again watch a child fight for their life. We love children and would have a dozen, but how could you chance this genetic disease? I had two ectopics, one in each tube, that were life threatening for me and there is that chance of reaccurring as well. But to us we chanced it before and put it in God’s Hands. Now that we have this horrible diseae on our shoulder lurking over us, we can not do it again. WE hate it. I can’t imagine not having to worry about my children’s health. You who chose how many kids and not take each as gifts, should really pray about that! If we did do something permanent ever that itself would be our suffering because we woud not want to do it.
 
dlmlkae said:
Thanks for your comments. I have always been very strong in the same belief with NFP and now the devil is really tempting us. Here we have to again watch a child fight for their life. We love children and would have a dozen, but how could you chance this genetic disease? I had two ectopics, one in each tube, that were life threatening for me and there is that chance of reaccurring as well. But to us we chanced it before and put it in God’s Hands. Now that we have this horrible diseae on our shoulder lurking over us, we can not do it again. WE hate it. I can’t imagine not having to worry about my children’s health. You who chose how many kids and not take each as gifts, should really pray about that! If we did do something permanent ever that itself would be our suffering because we woud not want to do it.
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What would your alternatives be? Hormonal birth control and barrier methods have the same method failure rate as NFP. Vasectomies and tubal ligations have a failure rate as well, albeit a small one, but you said you did not want to do something permanent.

So it seems to me that you do indeed have grave reasons for avoiding another pregnancy, and that you could licitly use NFP to avoid indefinitely. 🤷 This might be something best prayed about and discussed with your spiritual advisor, though.
 
😦 I would never do the pill, never have a tubal, and barriers are out of the question. Do we chance it with NFP, feel like we are doing the catholic thing or have a vasectomy, be done with it and possibly regret it the rest of our lives. I do know our God is a forgiving God.
The NFP will be such a challenge since my baby nurses so much and I am up constantly therefore I don’t think the temp. will be accurate and I know from nursing my last two children for 2 yr.s your mucous signs are not accurate.We lived by charts with the first seven years of our married life trying to conceive…I’m about to give up…how much can one handle?!
 
There are rules to use during bfing using mucous only, and they are different from the regular rules. There is also a fertility monitor you can buy to help you determine fertility. From what I understand they are pricey, but in your case, it seems it would be worth it. I would speak to a NFP practitioner if I were you. How old is your baby? Would you be able to abstain until he/she is weaned? I found NFP while bfing very confusing, but we never saw a NFP practitioner. We actually decided to abstain completely, which caused us to re-evaluate our reasons for postponing, which led to us now not avoiding at all. 😊 I really admire your courage- it is so tempting to take the easy way out. Pray for strength and see a NFP practitioner if you can. I will pray for you.

Blessings.
 
The abstainence would not be any possibility for my husband, anyway. Thanks for the ideas though, just not sure what I have time for, I am home-schooling three children and I have a 3 yr. old and my sick child which is a lot of work is three months old. I plan to nurse for as long as he will. We are more focused on him right now and getting him through treatment. Please pray he will be a survivor. His web site is; caringbridge.org/visit/ethanlee
 
I just looke at the website. I am so sorry you are going through this with your sweet baby. I wish I could run over there and help you with the kids. I am also hsing my two older ones w/ a three year old and a nine month old. I don’t know how you do it while also keeping up with all your baby needs. I will keep your family in my prayers.
 
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