J
Jermosh
Guest
Yes this could be it, watching it on TV is just that, watching. Its like trying to smell a cake on a cooking Show. So I am going to have to wait till I hear them in a Mass.
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J
Jermosh
Guest
See this is what I was taught in class, but when I heard them on EWTN I was confused. Although I like the idea of a large bong then a little tiny bing.
C
Crusader
Guest
A large tower bell, a sanctuary bell mounted to the wall, altar chimes or hand held Sanctus bells are all appropriate.
Interestingly enough, gongs or drums are not appropriate…
J
Jermosh
Guest
Not enough power in those. I would want something that would split a curtain
.
C
Crusader
Guest
Psalm45:9:
Are you certain about that?
Y
yinekka
Guest
Crusader - post # 31
For your info:
Communion Posture - Denying Communion
The practice of denying Holy Communion to Catholics for the manner in which they receive it (kneeling, genuflecting, tongue etc.) continues in some places despite letters such as the following from the Holy See, prohibiting such denials and threatening canonical sanctions against priests who do so.
The following was published in the November/December 2002 issue of Notitiae, the journal of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. The bishop to whom it was addressed was not identified.
Prot. n. 1322/02/L
Rome, 1 July 2002
Your Excellency,
This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. The reports state that such a policy has been announced to parishioners. There were possible indications that such a phenomenon might be somewhat more widespread in the Diocese, but the Congregation is unable to verify whether such is the case. …a request that you make this position known to any priests who may be in need of being thus informed.
The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843 § 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared.* Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion,* in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n.160, paragraph 2,* it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds*.
In fact, as His Eminence, **Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species. ** Given the importance of this matter, the Congregation would request that Your Excellency inquire specifically whether this priest in fact has a regular practice of refusing Holy Communion to any member of the faithful in the circumstances described above and—if the complaint is verified—that you also firmly instruct him and any other priests who may have such a practice to refrain from acting thus in the future. Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard *future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse. * …
Jorge A. Card. MEDINA ESTÉVEZ
Prefect
Francesco Pio TAMBURRINO
Archbishop Secretary
For your info:
Communion Posture - Denying Communion
The practice of denying Holy Communion to Catholics for the manner in which they receive it (kneeling, genuflecting, tongue etc.) continues in some places despite letters such as the following from the Holy See, prohibiting such denials and threatening canonical sanctions against priests who do so.
The following was published in the November/December 2002 issue of Notitiae, the journal of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. The bishop to whom it was addressed was not identified.
Prot. n. 1322/02/L
Rome, 1 July 2002
Your Excellency,
This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. The reports state that such a policy has been announced to parishioners. There were possible indications that such a phenomenon might be somewhat more widespread in the Diocese, but the Congregation is unable to verify whether such is the case. …a request that you make this position known to any priests who may be in need of being thus informed.
The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843 § 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared.* Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion,* in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n.160, paragraph 2,* it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds*.
In fact, as His Eminence, **Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species. ** Given the importance of this matter, the Congregation would request that Your Excellency inquire specifically whether this priest in fact has a regular practice of refusing Holy Communion to any member of the faithful in the circumstances described above and—if the complaint is verified—that you also firmly instruct him and any other priests who may have such a practice to refrain from acting thus in the future. Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard *future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse. * …
Jorge A. Card. MEDINA ESTÉVEZ
Prefect
Francesco Pio TAMBURRINO
Archbishop Secretary
C
Crusader
Guest
Again, standing is the normative posture in which to receive Holy Communion in the USA. Anyone suggesting that kneeling is “better” or “more holy” is simply placing their views ahead of what the Church instructs.
B
boppysbud
Guest
No the Byzantines (and Orthodox) do not ring bells during the Cherubic Hymn.
What happens is that during the preface to the Sanctus, during the words praising, singing, and hymning, the celebrant strikes the asterix (star cover) against the paten four times in the form of the cross. It does sound like bells though.
What happens is that during the preface to the Sanctus, during the words praising, singing, and hymning, the celebrant strikes the asterix (star cover) against the paten four times in the form of the cross. It does sound like bells though.
C
Crusader
Guest
Thanks for the update. Some Eastern Catholics and Orthodox do ring the big tower bells during the anaphora however.
C
Crusader
Guest
Standing is the directed way to receive communion in the USA in the Novus Ordo Mass. Ref. GIRM 2002.
I
Iohannes
Guest
Somebody go after the Norbertines for kneeling at Holy Communion at their conventual Mass. 
C
Crusader
Guest
Your posting added zero value to the discussion.Somebody go after the Norbertines for kneeling at Holy Communion at their conventual Mass.
C
Crusader
Guest
Can anyone here recommend any books/articles/papers on the use of Sanctus bells? Thanks.
K
kk1727
Guest
I’ll never understand your reaction against kneeling to receive communion. At a Mass celebrated according to the missa normativa I do of course stand, as you have said one is not ‘better’ or ‘holier’ than another. Cardinal Ratzinger makes a good case for kneeling and especially for bringing it back. Certainly you don’t suspect him of placing himself against Church directives? It’s quite clear in a missal that was designed to accomodate options to be pastorally sensistive to the needs of the faithful that this is an instance where such an attitude is paramount to unity. While the GIRM does indicate a need for counseling, you’ve yet to cite where it says such counseling is disciplinary or that such counseling must result in the counselee thereafter standing for communion. No, I gather from the repeated replies from the Holy See in regards to censure of the opinion that one who kneels should be refused communion that while the Church would seem to prefer standing, the Congregation interprets such a rule as to allow for kneeling. I would agree that there must be counseling so that the person who kneels understands that the parish performing the same act of adoration shows forth the unity of their community. However, this missal is meant to provide the full actual participation of the faithful as community but also as individuals. And that it where my agreement with you in principle diverges to that of accomadation for diverse expressions of piety. Your attitude towards others on this issue simply speaks to me of a new rigorism, especially since you repeatedly fail to take into account the further explanations on this matter by the Holy See.
C
Crusader
Guest
Indeed. I am quite rigrous about following what the Church directs. As soon as they Church directs kneeling as the normative posture for holy communion, I will kneel. In the mean time I will continue to follow the Church and not my own desires or notions.
K
kk1727
Guest
And I applaud your understanding of the norms and willingness to follow them. What I don’t applaud is your attitude towards those who have not the same desire as you. I’d rather you took the stance that the Church does. Explain, catechise, lead but don’t censure or deride.
D
deogratias
Guest
Thanks for posting that Keith - you have said, and quite charitably I might add, what I have tried to say, and not so charitably, for several months now.
I have participated in religious forums for 8-9 years now and one thing that is consistent is how Pride always rears it’s ugly head and the desire to be “right” overrides the desire to please God. It is unfortunate too, because there is such a wonderful opportunity for catachesis on forums.
What has always concerned me most about forums, however, is how the lurkers and seekers must view us, the Catholics, who practice more infighting than charity as not truly following the teachings of Christ.
Some folks on forums just like to argue - some come with genuine questions and after 7 or 8 pages of conflicting answers, leave more confused than when they came.
I am leaving this particular forum for several reasons.
Keep up your good work, and God Bless you.
I have participated in religious forums for 8-9 years now and one thing that is consistent is how Pride always rears it’s ugly head and the desire to be “right” overrides the desire to please God. It is unfortunate too, because there is such a wonderful opportunity for catachesis on forums.
What has always concerned me most about forums, however, is how the lurkers and seekers must view us, the Catholics, who practice more infighting than charity as not truly following the teachings of Christ.
Some folks on forums just like to argue - some come with genuine questions and after 7 or 8 pages of conflicting answers, leave more confused than when they came.
I am leaving this particular forum for several reasons.
- It is not well moderated and there is no moderating authority that steps in and says, “this is the truth” or “this is not” - they just shut it down with many questions still left unanswered to those who really want to know the Truth.
- Too few dominate too many threads - those who are more interested in debating and being right, I fear than really helping the person who wanted to know the truth.
- Too many opinions, not enough facts (truth) and not enough documentation to back up the truth.
- The constant hijaking of all the liturgical threads by those not obedient to the Church (on both sides of the spectrum) and the failure of moderators in allowing this to continue even when brought to their attention.
- And because I too, get caught up in pride here which results in uncharitable behavior on my part in return.
Keep up your good work, and God Bless you.
C
Crusader
Guest
Your diatribe does not belong on a discussion thread about Sanctus bells.
F
frdave20
Guest
Why are the bells rung at the priest’s consumption of the Precious Blood?
I understand the first three particulars, but I haven’t been able to intuitively firgure out the reasoning behind the last.
M
MeaCulpa
Guest
I believe the last time the bells are rung thrice is to remind those who plan to attend communion that now is the time and so this may in this instance correspond with the consumation of the precious blood, otherwise I do not see in any present or past traditions for it to be done at this time.
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