Use of singing bowl in mass

[Julia_Mae]

Good heavens…

I thought that was Buddhist…

Well, they are certainly from India and environs and used in Buddhism or maybe Hinduism or both or…? We need a really educated person to explain. But if not used in those specific cultures for whatever they use them for, they are instruments. They are also beautiful and sound wonderful and are ancient and a monument to the artistic talent and technical ability of their makers. I don’t think they even know how to make a 9-metal bowl anymore.

Archbishop Chaput once celebrated a mass I attended on the Blessed Kateri’s feast day. The music was native drums, (mostly) the Deacon was mostly naked in native dress, and the Archbishop incensed the altar with an eagle feather fan over a shell burning grasses/incense. These are things used in Native American religious rituals. They are also things used in the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in Catholic rituals.

I see no real difference using a singing bowl.

 

[ardis3958]

Archbishop Chaput … I see no real difference using a singing bowl.

Do you have many Buddhists in your church?

 

[Julia_Mae]

Do you have many Buddhists in your church?

Do you have many Jews?

 

[NOMINE_PATRIS]

Is anyone familiar with the use of a om gong/singing bowl that was used after Communion Prayer to identifying the beginning and then end of quiet prayer time.

It is the first time I have come across the use of a singing bowl being used during mass. Does this occur in other parishes?

Sounds like one of those “little changes” promoted by secular hierarchy and theologians after Vatican II. I think it would be more appropriate in a Buddhist Monastery.

 

[NOMINE_PATRIS]

Do you have many Jews?

And your point is?

 

[Zacdecat]

Well, a Buddha statue was sat on top of the Tabernacle at the first Assisi wasn’t it…this is a sacrelidge beyond belief…I guess if we want to go extreme ecumenical we could include human sacrifice as well.

O, dear Lord…“have mercy on us O Lord have mercy on us: for we are greatly filled with contempt”. Psalms 122:3

 

[Julia_Mae]

And your point is?

You first.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Well, a Buddha statue was sat on top of the Tabernacle at the first Assisi wasn’t it…this is a sacrelidge beyond belief…I guess if we want to go extreme ecumenical we could include human sacrifice as well.

O, dear Lord…“have mercy on us O Lord have mercy on us: for we are greatly filled with contempt”. Psalms 122:3

it’s

a

musical

instrument

Holy smoke, it’s an object that makes a sound, if you turned it upside down ans drilled a hole in the top for a cord it would just be a bell. If I fill one with sand and place it next to the candles with sticks in it, you would think I was trying to make the Church Buddhist?

whatever guys -

How can this simple and lovely thing, used to send a signal to the congragation, possibly threaten anyone so much?

 

[adstrinity]

It is not used in the Latin Mass of the Latin Rite, ergo, it should not be used in the English Mass of the Latin Rite.

I cannot believe that this is an issue here. . No, on second thought, I can.

What’s wrong with the people themselves being reflective in quiet prayer until after the priest purifies the vessels? There is no business for any of these foreign objects to be used at Mass.

 

[JReducation]

Well, a Buddha statue was sat on top of the Tabernacle at the first Assisi wasn’t it…this is a sacrelidge beyond belief…I guess if we want to go extreme ecumenical we could include human sacrifice as well.

O, dear Lord…“have mercy on us O Lord have mercy on us: for we are greatly filled with contempt”. Psalms 122:3

Just a clarification.

1. The person who placed it there did not understand what the tabernacle was. When he was asked to remove it and why, he did so with many apologies.
2. The friars had removed the Blessed Sacrament from the tabernacle beforehand.
3. The friars intervened, politely and received polite cooperation from the Buddhist monk.

End of story.

There is no need to bring this story up over and over again, especially if one does not ask the Conventual Franciscans what the details were and how it was handled.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ardis3958]

it’s

a

musical

instrument

with

a

cultural

meaning

and

significance

inappropriate

for

Christian

worship

It’s like saying, it’s only a little food that was offered to an idol. Paul was right when he said that idols are just statues of nonexistent “gods”, or demons at worst, and in the larger scheme of things it doesn’t matter if you eat the food or not, but if eating it sends the message that you think worshiping idols is okay, then it’s actually a sin to eat it. Sure it’s just a metal bowl. But think - think - think - why did the liturgist select *this *kind of metal bowl to be used for *this *purpose? It’s because she was exposed to Buddhist meditation and figured it would be cool to do what the Buddhists do. Well it’s not cool it’s just naive and culturally insensitive to us and to our time-honored traditions.

Besides, I don’t see any Buddhists importing Catholic customs because they think it’s cool.

 

[Julia_Mae]

with

a

cultural

meaning

and

significance

inappropriate

for

Christian

worship

See, it doesn’t. Things only have the meanings we give them. Our churches are based on pagan temples, we picked the day we celebrate Jesus’ birth based on a pagan holiday, and they put a Christmas tree in the nave every year and that was a central object of pagan worship.

It’s a thing. If the Pastor wants a sound to signal something in his Parish and uses this bowl to do that, it has nothing to do with anything Buddhist. Objects are just objects.

. But think - think - think - why did the liturgist select *this *kind of metal bowl to be used for *this *purpose? It’s because she was exposed to Buddhist meditation and figured it would be cool to do what the Buddhists do.

I’m sorry, do you have access to some information the rest of us are not privy to? Why did the Pastor decide he wanted an audible signal? Possibly to keep people from running out of Mass the second they received. Or some other reason. Why use the bowl? Possibly he had no bells or possibly he thought they should be reserved for the consecration. Where did the bowl come from? Possibly someone in the office who had one and offered it as a solution.

Or not. I don’t know, I’m surprised you think you do.

But let’s go with your scenario. Why are you second-guessing the Pastor of this Parish?

Well it’s not cool it’s just naive and culturally insensitive to us and to our time-honored traditions.

Now that I’ve heard about it, I think it’s an excellent idea and the sound is very mellow and subtle and beautiful. We keep having these discussions about keeping people in their seats, this seems like a good solution to me. The Liturgy isn’t about us, the point of Liturgy is not to honor our traditions.

I don’t have a singing bowl because I was “exposed to Buddhist meditation and think it’s cool.” I have one because I saw one in a shop one day, with some others, found out what it was and thought it was beautiful. And if my Pastor wanted to signal this point in the Mass, I’d offer mine, also.

 

[adstrinity]

Just like with other pagan things, the only appropriate time to use these singing bowls would be when there is no more Buddhism or New Age, i.e., when we have, as the Catholic Church, conquered and anihilated those things less than us and offensive to God, may we use them, triumphantly, to show that they are completely ours, and can no longer be used by any other community because those communities do not exist.

Ultimately, though, this is inappropriate at Mass because it is unnecessary. Get rid of all extra people serving at Mass except for the Pastor, Assistant Pastor, Deacon, or Altar Boys; watch how reverent everybody becomes after that.

 

[Aeolian]

"…Finally, the use of substitutes for genuine sanctus bells has also quite rightfully soured many on the ringing of bells during the Mass. Old cow bells, gongs, Tibetan singing bowls, xylophones, etc. are all unacceptable substitutes for true sanctus bells per the Catholic Church.15, 16

---

1. Sacred Congregation of Rites (Decree of September 10, 1898.) Negative response to Archbishop of Mexico on request to use oriental gong.
2. De musica sacra et sacra liturgia. Instruction on Sacred Music and Sacred Liturgy Sacred Congregation for Rites. September 3, 1958.

From www.SmellsBells.com/sanctusbells.pdf pg.12

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

It’s a thing.

It is an object that rings a certain tone - called “OM” - it is used to open Chakras and meditate. I have exceptionally strong brow and crown Chakra (clairvoyance, clairaudience, spiritual knowing, seeing spirit and intuition).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7555245#post7555245

If the Pastor wants a sound to signal something in his Parish and uses this bowl to do that, it has nothing to do with anything Buddhist.

I wouldn’t know this Julia, it is speculative to assume what you don’t know.

Objects are just objects.

A Ouiji board, divining rods are objects too.

Why did the Pastor decide he wanted an audible signal? Possibly to keep people from running out of Mass the second they received.

Yes

Or some other reason. Why use the bowl?

Good question.

Possibly he had no bells or possibly he thought they should be reserved for the consecration. Where did the bowl come from? Possibly someone in the office who had one and offered it as a solution.

Sanctus bells are used in the mass:

• during Sanctus bells are first rung prior to the consecration at the epiclesis when the priest prays to the Holy Spirit to change the gifts of bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
• rung a second time as the priest elevates and presents the Body of Christ.
• rung a third time as the celebrant elevates and presents the chalice filled with the Precious Blood.

We keep having these discussions about keeping people in their seats, this seems like a good solution to me.

That is your choice Julia Mae, you have the knowledge now with participating in this thread of the problems it has caused me. Remember, there may be members of your parish that have been exposed like I have and may cause them problems too.

I don’t have a singing bowl because I was “exposed to Buddhist meditation and think it’s cool.”

Your statement is not helpful. I feel it is quite belittling of my predicament.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

This is formally prohibited. You can find a footnote in the sanctus bells booklet available at www.SmellsBells.com that notes the official Church documents.

Thank you for this information, it has been most helpful for me. I have saved it to present to our parish priest.

 

[borregomom]

Tibetan Singing Bowls have no place in a Catholic Mass or a Catholic Church period. I know about Chakras and new age spirituality first hand: I am divorcing a man who became obsessed with and is now completely lost to it. Those who follow this particular spirituality are looking for spiritual shortcuts; God is not the central figure in their beliefs, they are. This form of spirituality is self-driven, self-centered, that is the ego places them firmly at the center of their beliefs. They claim to be God, they claim that we are all God, not his children. new age spirituality is an amalgam of many different religious and spiritual practices that its followers put their own spin on. As a result who and what they believe in constantly changes. Many believed the Mayan Prophecy, they believe the the Hopi Indians (who staunchly deny any connection to these beliefs) have prophesied the Blue Star Kochina meteor will signal the complete and total “transformation” of all people. They listen to and follow their “spirit guides” and tell others to talk to their angels who are constantly in the room. As a Catholic I believe that God assigns each of us a Guardian Angel but I certainly don’t believe that as I type this I am surrounded by spiritual guides and angels. God’s angels aren’t sitting around waiting for us to confer with them. This makes no sense: why would we ask angels for help instead of Our Father? Some new agers believe Lucifer got a bad deal, that he is not as bad as the Bible tell us. Opening any Chakra opens the possibility for bad influences to come into our minds and hearts. I find the sound of Tibetan Singing Bowls disturbing and if I ever hear or witness them being used in my Parish I will certainly ask to talk to the Priest. These bowls have their place in Eastern Religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism; they have no place in Roman Catholicism. They have no spiritual ties to new age spiritualism either but then new agers are so desperate for spiritual guidance they will attach anything to their beliefs if it makes them feel good or happy. They look at Christianity as if it is terrible and are looking for the easy road to their version of God, their beliefs are empty and have no real meaning. I don’t hate my ex but I do thank God everyday for removing him from my life. PS: Christianity is NOT based upon Paganism. Study the history of the church and do so objectively. My misguided ex made that statement…that is a new age opinion. Julia, your defensive attitude about the use of Tibetan Singing Bowls in a Catholic Mass has me wondering if you are blending new age spirituality with Catholicism…