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fermat
Guest
My wife is a cantor. Her music director chose a song today that uses the unspeakable name. Is the prohibition against using that name in effect now, or is still pending?
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japhy
Guest
I think it’s reasonable to expect the instruction should be obeyed by now.
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benedictgal
Guest
The organist at the Cathedral last night used a Spanish song (from OCP) that also had the unspeakable name. I informed the Cathedral’s administrator. I told him that i would send him a copy of the document to give to the organist.
I suppose that OCP probably thought that this prohibition only treated songs in English, but, it also takes in other languages as well.
I suppose that OCP probably thought that this prohibition only treated songs in English, but, it also takes in other languages as well.
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Corki
Guest
That’s being very charitable toward OCP. The new 2009 hynmnal still has the unspeakable name
in all the usualy places. Correction, one song has a change in the chorus but kept it in one of the verses.We too had one of the songs with the unspeakable name at Mass today. My kids go to Catholic school where it was explained (quite nicely BTW) why the words were changing. Today at Mass, my youngest leaned over and whispered “they aren’t supposed to sing it like that.” Out of the mouths of babes.
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benedictgal
Guest
Actually, OCP knew this back as early as 2001 when Liturgiam Authenticam was promulgated. The document, which governs the translations for the liturgical documents of the Church, notes that:That’s being very charitable toward OCP. The new 2009 hynmnal still has the unspeakable name
We too had one of the songs with the unspeakable name at Mass today. My kids go to Catholic school where it was explained (quite nicely BTW) why the words were changing. Today at Mass, my youngest leaned over and whispered “they aren’t supposed to sing it like that.” Out of the mouths of babes.
So, the publishing house cannot use the fact that the leter was issued after they had printed their books as an excuse. This directive had already been around for quite some time. I believe they simply chose not to read Liturgiam Authenticam or they ignored it.
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mystified
Guest
Maybe I’ve grown dense in my lold age, but could someone explain the term “unspeakable name”?
It has always been my understanding that the Hebrew scribes used numerology-base letters to represent the Name of God, in fact, I still see some Jewish writers in an almost superstitious way refer to G_d, even though this word is not His Name, but a title.
Doesn’t the Church warn us against superstious practices, whether this be palm reading, astrology, or numerology?
In the OT, the commandment does not say, You shall have no other before Me.
In the OT God told Moses from the burning bush, he was “I Am”,
and in the NT Jesús tells us, “Before the world, I Am.” Could this be the real Name of God, as translated to English?
Or maybe the child was right. She said God’s Name is Harold. As in Our Father, Harold be Thy Name.
It has always been my understanding that the Hebrew scribes used numerology-base letters to represent the Name of God, in fact, I still see some Jewish writers in an almost superstitious way refer to G_d, even though this word is not His Name, but a title.
Doesn’t the Church warn us against superstious practices, whether this be palm reading, astrology, or numerology?
In the OT, the commandment does not say, You shall have no other before Me.
In the OT God told Moses from the burning bush, he was “I Am”,
and in the NT Jesús tells us, “Before the world, I Am.” Could this be the real Name of God, as translated to English?
Or maybe the child was right. She said God’s Name is Harold. As in Our Father, Harold be Thy Name.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
A recent Vatican document prohibits the addition of vowels and/or the pronunciation of the tetragammon [sp?] IHWH.Maybe I’ve grown dense in my lold age, but could someone explain the term “unspeakable name”?
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Another_Mary
Guest
Is it seasonal or something?
We also had that song at church today.
We also had that song at church today.
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benedictgal
Guest
No it is not. Unforutnately, OCP programmed that song as a suggested one to use for today. Even though OCP sent a disclaimer notice regarding the Holy Name of God, it issued it one month after the notification came out. What they should have done was to pull all of the songs off its roster, almost like a recall notice when there is bad food out there, infomr its subscribers that these songs will not be used until they are corrected and then move to either delete them from their arsenal or amend them.
As I said, OCP cannot “play dumb” on this one because this directive has been around since 2001, when Liturgiam Authenticam was promulgated.
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psr13
Guest
Last week during the homily the priest at my church said that it was in force now.
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Brendan
Guest
That would be correct. A Directive becomes effective 90 days after promulgation. The CDWDS issued this to the US Bishops Aug 8, so it would have become effective on Nov 6.
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benedictgal
Guest
Brendan, what about the fact that this directive had already existed in LIturgiam Authenticam? One could say that the measure has been en force since 2001, when that document was promulgated, and that the directive from the Holy See was a strong reminder that LA needed to be obeyed.
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lizaanne
Guest
Hey - I’m with ya on this one! I had no idea this was the case!Maybe I’ve grown dense in my lold age, but could someone explain the term “unspeakable name”?
Guess my old parish can’t be singing “unspeakable name, I knowwwwww, You are hearrrrrrrr…”
(Never did like that song much anyway.)~Liza
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Question: Does the prohibition against the unspeakable name apply only to lyrics or is it prohibited to speaking as well?
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John7
Guest
Does this mean I can’t say Yahweh anymore in private, or is the prohibition just in the corporate liturgical setting?
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John7
Guest
Just what I was thinking
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benedictgal
Guest
I believe that it applies to all of the liturgical practices, including the prayers. According to Adoremus:
Here are the directives:
I hope this helps.
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japhy
Guest
The document itself has been discussed on this forum already. It applies to liturgical settings only, not your private prayer.
“In liturgical celebrations, in songs and prayers the name of God in the form of the tetragrammaton YHWH is neither to be used or pronounced.”
You can read the document here.
“In liturgical celebrations, in songs and prayers the name of God in the form of the tetragrammaton YHWH is neither to be used or pronounced.”
You can read the document here.
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Brendan
Guest
The authority of the document comes from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. This Dicastery has authority of the Liturgy and the Sacraments. As such, it’s directives apply applies to any liturgical setting, that would include Mass texts, translations of Scripture, hymns etc.
It does not apply to private speech.
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Brendan
Guest
Yea, I know.
The Vatican DID give the US time to get it’s act in gear and has chosen not to enforce the aspects of L.A. that pertain to sacred music until after the new Missal has been approved.
So the directive is a clear demonstration that certain aspects of L.A. are not allowed to wait in the texts have been approved.
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