Using a Catholic church as a venue for a Christmas concert

[Lepanto]

Assuming that:

• The Blessed Sacrament is removed.
• The music is actually about CHRISTmas (not Frosty the Snowman).
• Any funds collected go to the parish.
• The parish has no social hall/alternative facility.

In your view, would using a Catholic church for such a concert be acceptable? Why or why not?

 

[Apryl]

Assuming that:

• The Blessed Sacrament is removed.
• The music is actually about CHRISTmas (not Frosty the Snowman).
• Any funds collected go to the parish.
• The parish has no social hall/alternative facility.

In your view, would using a Catholic church for such a concert be acceptable? Why or why not?

I think it would be acceptable.

If you’ve removed the Blessed Sacrament, it’s just a building. A building with great accoustics, but just a building all the same.

 

[agapewolf]

The Cathedral in St. Louis, MO has a concert series. THe blessed sacrament is not removed. (It is already in a small side area because it is a tourist building as well).

My parish hosted the public school across the street for their choir concert. THey had a mixture of Christmas music…both Christian and some other normal tunes. We have a door that closes off the tabernacle to the adoration chapel in the back and kept it going.

The experience was wonderful. The choir got a taste of performing in a different acoustical setting. Perhaps people decide to come to the parish more. The church opens her doors to the community.

And by the way, the audience was more respectful and reverent than the usual guests for weddings and funerals.

 

[acadian]

Our small church offers a performance of Lessons and Carols every year during Advent.

This year I noticed that the Blessed Sacrament was with us. (There was also incense used in the entrance procession.)

Scripture is read. Music is peformed. Prayers are said.

It was quite nice to sit and enjoy the talents of others in the presence of the Lord in a warm church on a cold, December night.

Overall, the atmosphere was more reverent than what preceded confirmation a few weeks later.

 

[Frosty]

I don’t see anything wrong with it. Each year Handel’s Messiah is performed in December in the Cathedral in my city. Thirty years ago I attended a Christmas concert at Notre Dame Basilica in Montreal [1978]. Luciano Pavarotti was the lead singer, backed up by the Montreal Symphony Orchestra. To hear that wonderous voice singing songs such as *Ave Maria *or *Panis Angelicus *in the glorious setting of the Basilica was a sublime experience.

 

[bpcatholic]

I think they should be used. The Church is known for being a patron of the arts. I know in the Cathedral in Speyer, Germany they have concerts that aren’t about Christmas. Doesn’t the Vatican have concerts that aren’t necessarily Christian?

 

[Lepanto]

Doesn’t the Vatican have concerts that aren’t necessarily Christian?

In St. Peter’s Basilica?

 

[bpcatholic]

In St. Peter’s Basilica?

Now that I think of it, they have them at the Pope Paul VI building. That white building that sticks out.

I know at the Cathedral in Speyer the concert is IN the Cathedral.

 

[little_flower_1]

A couple of weeks ago I attended a basque christmas music concert held in the cathedral in Boise. I am very devoted to the Eucharist and tend to be quite particular, but I really didn’t see anything disrespectful or sacrilegious about it, though one or two of the songs were simply winter folk songs. The Blessed Sacrament was not removed. So long as there is nothing inappropriate I think it is almost rude not to invite the Master of the house to something ostensibly held in His honor. The music was beautiful and I imagined He quite enjoyed it too.

 

[Phemie]

I said no because money was put in the equation. I’d like to qualify that. If there is an admission fee I’d say no. If they take up a collection that people are free to donate or not then OK.

That said, our church has good acoustics and has been used for concerts and other events. The Blessed Sacrament was removed for those that were strictly secular such as the year we hosted the local radio station’s annual reading of “A Christmas Carol” and the times we’ve been the venue for the Music Festival concert. We have the second biggest Church in the town and no performance venue so ours and the Pentecostal Church are used a lot for this.

The Blessed Sacrament remained when it was our turn to host the annual Lessons and Carol Service that the different Churches in our local Ministerial Association participate in. After all, why should we remove Jesus when we are going to be reading the Bible and singing hymns? And although many of the people in the pews were not Catholic, the reverence was there just as it is when this service takes place in the non-Catholic Churches.

 

[Dicerning]

We had a Leap of Faith Concert in our church.

It was a Christian band that had their gig set up in front of the ALtar in the sanctuary. I believe the Altar was pushed back a bit for more room…

The blessed Sacrament was taken out of the tabernacle

I was uncomfortable with it.

But Oh Well.

 

[puzzleannie]

Assuming that:

• The Blessed Sacrament is removed.
• The music is actually about CHRISTmas (not Frosty the Snowman).
• Any funds collected go to the parish.
• The parish has no social hall/alternative facility.

In your view, would using a Catholic church for such a concert be acceptable? Why or why not?

all the other conditions are okay, but there can be no fee charged for the performance.

a performance of sacred music is not necessarily a concert it can be a religious service, such as lessons and carols, the Messiah or similar works.

if donations are accepted they should go to offset the legitimate expenses of the event, but it cannot be billed as a fundraiser

 

[HamtramckSteve]

all the other conditions are okay, but there can be no fee charged for the performance.

a performance of sacred music is not necessarily a concert it can be a religious service, such as lessons and carols, the Messiah or similar works.

if donations are accepted they should go to offset the legitimate expenses of the event, but it cannot be billed as a fundraiser

Is this your opinion or somewhere in the written rules?

My parish hosts at least three concerts during Advent and the Christmas season. One is our own choir, one is the Detroit Concert Choir and I can’t recall the third staple.

Our choir’s show is a free-will donation, but the others are paying events. The groups rent our church, and the rental fee pays for capital improvements and maintenance. Without that income, we could not keep our building up.

 

[Lepanto]

I appreciate all of the personal anecdotes, but does anyone know if there is any formal Church legislation or authoritative precedent on this matter (i.e., from the Vatican)?

Using a Catholic church for anything other than liturgy, worship, or something similar (like catechesis) strikes me as illicit or at least as a sign of poor judgment.

A concert, even if it is authentic to the Christmas message, is ultimately just that – a concert, a performance.

 

[Phemie]

Is this your opinion or somewhere in the written rules?

My parish hosts at least three concerts during Advent and the Christmas season. One is our own choir, one is the Detroit Concert Choir and I can’t recall the third staple.

Our choir’s show is a free-will donation, but the others are paying events. The groups rent our church, and the rental fee pays for capital improvements and maintenance. Without that income, we could not keep our building up.

Sorry but that directive is included as one of the things the Ordinary can specify when granting permission for concerts**“Entrance to the church must be without payment and open to all”** and comes from the Congregation for Divine Worship in a document called Concerts in Churches, dated 5 November 1987.

It also stipulates that the musicians and singers should not be placed in the sanctuary

 

[Phemie]

I appreciate all of the personal anecdotes, but does anyone know if there is any formal Church legislation or authoritative precedent on this matter (i.e., from the Vatican)?

Using a Catholic church for anything other than liturgy, worship, or something similar (like catechesis) strikes me as illicit or at least as a sign of poor judgment.

A concert, even if it is authentic to the Christmas message, is ultimately just that – a concert, a performance.

Congregation for Divine Worship Concerts in Churches, dated 5 November 1987.

 

[Lepanto]

Congregation for Divine Worship Concerts in Churches, dated 5 November 1987.

Thank you, Phemie, that’s exactly what I was looking for. (How did you know about this document?)

adoremus.org/concerts.html

The general gist that I got from it: concerts can occur, but only in very certain circumstances and only provisionally. This is probably the most important, authoritative statement:

The regulation of the use of churches is stipulated by canon 1210 of the Code of Canon Law:

"In a sacred place only those things are to be permitted which serve to exercise or promote worship, piety and religion. Anything out of harmony with the holiness the place is forbidden. The Ordinary may, however, for individual cases, permit other uses, provided they are not contrary to the sacred character of the place."

Other quotes that struck me:​

According to tradition as expressed in the rite for the dedication of a church and altar, churches are primarily places where the people of God gather, and are “made one as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, and are the Church, the temple of God built with living stones, in which the Father is worshipped in spirit and in truth.” Rightly so, from ancient times the name “church” has been extended to the building in which the Christian community unite to hear the word of God, to pray together, to receive the sacraments, to celebrate the Eucharist and to prolong its celebration in the adoration of the Blessed Sacrament (Cf. Order of the Dedication of a Church, ch. II, 1).

Churches, however, cannot be considered simply as public places for any kind of meeting. They are sacred places, that is, “set apart” in a permanent way for divine worship by their dedication and blessing.

As visible constructions, churches are signs of the pilgrim Church on earth; they are images that proclaim the heavenly Jerusalem, places in which are actualized the mystery of the communion between man and God. Both in urban areas and in the countryside, the church remains the house of God, and the sign of his dwelling among men. It remains a sacred place, even when no liturgical celebration is taking place.

In a society disturbed by noise, especially in big cities, churches are also an oasis where men gather, in silence and in prayer, to seek peace of soul and the light of faith.

That will only be possible in so far as churches maintain their specific identity. When churches are used for ends other than those for which they were built, their role as a sign of the Christian mystery is put at risk, with more or less serious harm to the teaching of the faith and to the sensitivity of the People of God, according to the Lord’s words: “My house is a house of prayer” (Lk 19:46).

 

[Phemie]

Thank you, Phemie, that’s exactly what I was looking for. (How did you know about this document?)

adoremus.org/concerts.html

At some point I wanted to be sure we weren’t doing anything wrong so I looked it up and printed it for my “CHURCH DOCUMENTS” binder.

That said, we don’t follow the rules in our community. That’s not to say that they follow those rules everywhere else because I know of some wonderful historic churches that are still in regular use but hold series of concerts to which they charge admission.

 

[Lepanto]

That said, we don’t follow the rules in our community. That’s not to say that they follow those rules everywhere else because I know of some wonderful historic churches that are still in regular use but hold series of concerts to which they charge admission.

Right, and that’s why I was looking for something official, not anecdotal. Unfortunately, many decision-makers are ignorant or willfully disregard the rules.

 

[agapewolf]

St. Louis and Archbishop burke are known for sticking to the rules…

Yet, admission is charged for certain concerts given at the cathedral.