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Love_is_Patient
Guest
Before you comment, yes, I believe it is wrong. Yes, I will be confessing it this saturday and no, I do not plan on doing it again. My question is whether this would be a mortal or venial sin.
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davidv
Guest
Please ask your confessor. We cannot know enough to provide you an accurate answer.
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ForwardProgress
Guest
Are you friends with your neighbor? Just ask!
I wouldn’t consider it a sin if you are just hopping on for 10 sec to check something then off again… If you are using it instead of paying for 24/7 internet access, then yeah, it’s kinda like stealing cable.
I wouldn’t consider it a sin if you are just hopping on for 10 sec to check something then off again… If you are using it instead of paying for 24/7 internet access, then yeah, it’s kinda like stealing cable.
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Scottgun
Guest
You mean by piggybacking on their wireless?
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Love_is_Patient
Guest
I will.
I just thought I’d post the question anyway.
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Linnyo
Guest
that’s quite bizarre - it reminded me of an incident years ago when I was tuning into my radio. It seemed like a strange thing to have on the radio as it was a conversation between a couple. It was very heated and about bedtime issues. I was feeling a bit curious and I listened and about 10 minutes into it, it dawned on me that we had tuned into a neighbours phonecall. I felt awful. I had a dilemma - i didn’t know whether to tell her that she was on the radio when she used her phone and I could barely look her in the eye knowing what I had learned about her. The question is ‘does your neighbour realise that his connection is insecure?’ and shouild you let him know? I never said to my neighbour for fear of her knowing we had listened but then she was open to having her calls listened to.
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chicago
Guest
It’s probably debateable as to whether it even is sinful at all. But if you are convinced that it is and the only question being whether you are in mortal or venial sin, then I’d offer the advice which a priest I know once recommended, “If you have to ask, it isn’t mortal.” At least subjectively, that is true. As since you didn’t understand it’s clear gravity well, you couldn’t have intentionally violated such with full knowing consent of the will. On the other hand, as an objective matter I think one would have to adjudicate the particular seriousness of the offense and intent, as this is probably not something which is so much of a grave evil in and of itself.
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BlestOne
Guest
We used to let our neighbor boy use our wireless because they were poor but when he started going to porn sites we secured the wireless. As long as you have the neighbors permission in the future, and don’t do massive downloads, it may not be a problem at all.
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emily47017
Guest
you could even offer to chip in with the bill. 
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CuriousInIL
Guest
IMO the issue is cheating the ISP not the neighbor; so, neither permission from the neighbor nor a contribution to the neighbor changes the nature of the act.
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Matt_Collins
Guest
Go back to the 3 conditions necessary for a mortal sin:
It is debatable whether or not it constitutes serious matter. Most people, if they are honest with themselves, acknowledge that it is stealing. However, it would have to be a serious amount of money to be considered serious matter, or for the amount that is stolen to be considered serious by the victim (e.g., stealing $5.00 from a beggar is more serious than stealing $5.00 from a millionaire).
Therefore, since it’s questionable whether or not it is serious matter, I think it is not possible to have full knowledge, and because you don’t have full knowledge it’s not possible to give full consent to committing a mortal sin.
My personal belief is that it’s wrong and we shouldn’t do it. But I don’t think it’s possible to make a clear statement that it’s objectively grave matter.
Just my $45.27/month worth…
BTW, I think the previous poster’s guideline that if you have to ask, then it’s not mortal, is generally a good rule. Having to ask almost implies that you don’t have full knowledge. However, that’s good only for examining one’s own conscience to decide whether or not you are SUBJECTIVELY guilty of a mortal sin. Also, it’s only a guideline. It could be that you are asking because your well-formed conscience is bothering you and you just need someone to knock you upside the head.
- Serious matter.
- Full knowledge.
- Full consent.
It is debatable whether or not it constitutes serious matter. Most people, if they are honest with themselves, acknowledge that it is stealing. However, it would have to be a serious amount of money to be considered serious matter, or for the amount that is stolen to be considered serious by the victim (e.g., stealing $5.00 from a beggar is more serious than stealing $5.00 from a millionaire).
Therefore, since it’s questionable whether or not it is serious matter, I think it is not possible to have full knowledge, and because you don’t have full knowledge it’s not possible to give full consent to committing a mortal sin.
My personal belief is that it’s wrong and we shouldn’t do it. But I don’t think it’s possible to make a clear statement that it’s objectively grave matter.
Just my $45.27/month worth…
BTW, I think the previous poster’s guideline that if you have to ask, then it’s not mortal, is generally a good rule. Having to ask almost implies that you don’t have full knowledge. However, that’s good only for examining one’s own conscience to decide whether or not you are SUBJECTIVELY guilty of a mortal sin. Also, it’s only a guideline. It could be that you are asking because your well-formed conscience is bothering you and you just need someone to knock you upside the head.
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Test_Tube
Guest
Whoa, that is bizarre.
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zjl56
Guest
It is my opinion that this could only be a mortal sin if you actually tried to damage his property. Surfing on someones wireless like you did for just a moment would have used very little bandwidth. Your neighbor has made no effort to secure his wireless, and as far as you know they don’t care.
As far as stealing wireless, I look at in this way. If you go into a random establishment for the sole purpose of going to the bathroom, or using the drinking fountain, is it wrong that you didn’t pay for the water bill? The amount of water was only worth fractions of a penny, and so is the bandwidth.
I would ask before continuing, but I don’t see how this is stealing, if it were I believe cable companies would try to heavily fine free wireless hot spots.
As far as stealing wireless, I look at in this way. If you go into a random establishment for the sole purpose of going to the bathroom, or using the drinking fountain, is it wrong that you didn’t pay for the water bill? The amount of water was only worth fractions of a penny, and so is the bandwidth.
I would ask before continuing, but I don’t see how this is stealing, if it were I believe cable companies would try to heavily fine free wireless hot spots.
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CuriousInIL
Guest
Commercial free wireless hotspots pay the ISP for the ability to allow that connectivity–that is why the companies do not try to shut them down. Look at most household contracts for service and you will see a requirement to limit access to those in the household.
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Matt_Collins
Guest
There is an important difference: the law often requires gas stations, restaurants, stores, etc., to provide this service free of charge to the public, without requiring them to purchase anything. The law does not require internet companies to provide free internet surfing to the non-paying public.
Who do you need to ask for permission to piggyback on your neighbor’s wireless internet? Both the neighbor and the ISP. Neither of them has given you permission to use their equipment without charge. And even if your neighbor does not mind, your ISP most certainly does.
When you go to Starbuck’s and use their wireless hotspot, you’re making use of a service they provide for free, but they in turn pay the ISP for the right to provide that service. So everything is done above board. The ISP knows what’s going on and has agreed to it.
But piggybacking on your neighbor’s wireless connectivity, with or without their permission, is still using the ISP’s equipment without their permission. It may or may not be grave matter, but it is clearly theft of service, unless a local law says that ISP’s must allow people to piggyback on their neighbor’s wireless network. But I don’t see that happening.
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Grace_Angel
Guest
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Windmill
Guest
Since you are using services that the ISP would demand you pay for, it is stealing. The moral laws governing stealing apply. If you are talking about a one-time jumping online, then it would be venial since it would concern a minor matter. However, if this is a re-occurring thing, then you start to head into the realm of mortal sin because you are dealing with lost profits from the ISP’s point of view.
If you are wanting an internet connections, the best remedy would be to get your own connection and patronize the ISP whose services you have taken for free.
If you are wanting an internet connections, the best remedy would be to get your own connection and patronize the ISP whose services you have taken for free.
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Jesusstreet
Guest
It is stealing, which i would consider a measure of your willingness to forgive the sin against you. That is if you wouldn’t mind the neighborhood jumping on your wireless internet access, why worry about it?
Of course the laws of men are clear, it is stealing. And the likelihood is you would not want people taking such advantage of you. So why do you do it to them? Clearly it is against the commandment - do no steal.
LOVE your neighbor as yourself.
Amen.
Of course the laws of men are clear, it is stealing. And the likelihood is you would not want people taking such advantage of you. So why do you do it to them? Clearly it is against the commandment - do no steal.
LOVE your neighbor as yourself.
Amen.
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water
Guest
It doesn’t matter if the neighbor is friend or not - it is still a sin. 10 seconds or 1 second - a sin is a sin.
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Liberanosamalo
Guest
Yes, it’s stealing. Pay for your own. I figure, you either pay now, or you pay in eternity. Now might be cheaper in the long run.
As for the phone call coming over the radio… I’ve seen that happen with baby monitors also. If you’re too embarrassed to say so face to face, an anonymous note about the phone problem left at their door might be the kind thing to do. Let them know whatever phone they are using is not secure and has been heard on a neighbor’s radio. Don’t go into the nature of the discussion, just let them know their security isn’t what they think it is.
As for the phone call coming over the radio… I’ve seen that happen with baby monitors also. If you’re too embarrassed to say so face to face, an anonymous note about the phone problem left at their door might be the kind thing to do. Let them know whatever phone they are using is not secure and has been heard on a neighbor’s radio. Don’t go into the nature of the discussion, just let them know their security isn’t what they think it is.
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