Using a questionable means for a good end

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hellopeople said:
Pope Urban II was the one that made the final decision to go to war.

And I don’t hate the church, but I just find it hilarious that you think the church is perfect when it has done bad things in the past. Any justification for the inquisition you want to throw out there? Or maybe for killing people that read bibles in their own language? Any thoughts on those things. The church is far from perfect.
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Who said the church was perfect? I said that it is always right in terms of faith and morals. The people of the Church, including all the up to the Pope, are not perfect in any sense of the word (I believe John Paul II went to confession daily or something like that). The Holy Spirit protects the Church from teaching wrongly on faith and morals; when it comes to politics we’re on our own (and very fallible).
 
curlycool89 said:
Who said the church was perfect? I said that it is always right in terms of faith and morals. The people of the Church, including all the up to the Pope, are not perfect in any sense of the word (I believe John Paul II went to confession daily or something like that). The Holy Spirit protects the Church from teaching wrongly on faith and morals; when it comes to politics we’re on our own (and very fallible).
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The church declared that it was wrong to read the Bible in one’s vernacular and it was right to go to war and take Jerusalem. These are moral issues.
 
hellopeople said:
The church declared that it was wrong to read the Bible in one’s vernacular and it was right to go to war and take Jerusalem. These are moral issues.
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This is not true. Would you please get your facts straight before you spew out this garbage?
 
hellopeople said:
The church declared that it was wrong to read the Bible in one’s vernacular and it was right to go to war and take Jerusalem. These are moral issues.
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Oh yes, it must have been so hard for the people who couldn’t read the non-existent English Bibles :rolleyes:. The only Bibles that existed were hand transcribed by monks in Latin (pretty much because that’s the language the Church conducted official business in). The language of the Bible is not a moral issue, but the translation is (mistranslate and you could pervert a moral truth). The Church just didn’t have any vernacular copies.

In any case at the time of the Crusades there were very few people who could read anyways (certainly not the peasantry), so any hypothetical vernacular Bibles would have been only of use to the nobility (and if they wanted to study the Bible, they simply learned Latin). It’s simply a non-issue up until the invention of the printing press.
 
hellopeople said:
The church declared that it was wrong to read the Bible in one’s vernacular and it was right to go to war and take Jerusalem. These are moral issues.
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I am not a believer and I know this is absolutely a bunch of hooey. 😛
 
StrawberryJam said:
I am not a believer and I know this is absolutely a bunch of hooey. 😛
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OK, well I might be wrong about the Bible thing (I still think there is some truth to it) but I do know that Pope Urban II supported the crusades and believed it was a moral thing to do.
 
hellopeople said:
OK, well I might be wrong about the Bible thing (I still think there is some truth to it) but I do know that Pope Urban II supported the crusades and believed it was a moral thing to do.
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Can you explain the connection to me?

Catholics can believe in a “just war”

*Just *ask them. No pun intended.

Hypathia comes to mind. Get rid of them fast.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Can you explain the connection to me?

Catholics can believe in a “just war”

*Just *ask them. No pun intended.

Hypathia comes to mind. Get rid of them fast.
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Well that just proves my point, doesn’t it? Just war is undoubtedly a means towards an end.
 
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