Using Chant at Mass instead of hymns

[eBethInk]

My Spiritual Life Committee would like to organize a Mass in which we replace the hymns with Chant. Not being a musician or a liturgist, I don’t know if this something that can be done. However, I was chosen to research it!

My first question: Is this allowed? Does one have to use music in Mass from one of the hymnals?

Secondly, does anyone have any resources I could look at to find out how this could be done? I would like to go to the music director with research in hand when we propose this.

Thanks for you time.

 

[YoungTradCath]

My Spiritual Life Committee would like to organize a Mass in which we replace the hymns with Chant. Not being a musician or a liturgist, I don’t know if this something that can be done. However, I was chosen to research it!

My first question: Is this allowed? Does one have to use music in Mass from one of the hymnals?

Secondly, does anyone have any resources I could look at to find out how this could be done? I would like to go to the music director with research in hand when we propose this.

Thanks for you time.

Of course it’s allowed. In fact, it’s preferred if you read the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, amongst other important documents. Gregorian Chant is the music proper to the Roman Rite. The church views other music as equal, but says very clearly that chant has a “pride of place.”

I am extremely surprised that there is a lay movement in a church committee in this direction. You should ask your priest about this. There’s no reason why it can’t happen. If your priest says it cannot, I’d venture to say that he just doesn’t want to make it happen.

There are plenty of chant books and resources available. There is a document called Jubilate Deo issued under the reign of HH Pius VI, indeed issued right after Vatican II, and even because of it.

 

[Phemie]

The hymns we are familiar with are actually replacements for the chanted Propers: the entrance hymn replaces the Entrance Antiphon, etc. It is totally proper (no pun intended) to use the the Propers instead of hymns. Here’s a website where you might get more information and a way of getting what you’re looking for. These Propers are in English. If you want to sing them in Latin, there are three options listed in the GIRM.

canticanova.com/articles/liturgy/art9bp1.htm

 

[puzzleannie]

My Spiritual Life Committee would like to organize a Mass in which we replace the hymns with Chant. Not being a musician or a liturgist, I don’t know if this something that can be done. However, I was chosen to research it!

My first question: Is this allowed? Does one have to use music in Mass from one of the hymnals?
e.

of course it can be done

that being said, for what parts of the Mass does they want to use chant?
if they are looking at using Latin Chant to replace more modern vernacular versions of the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus Dei etc, yes chant is always the first choice, and anything else is a distance second.

If they mean more traditional hymns for entrance, offertory, communion etc, the misalletes and hymnals are suggestions, not mandates

the entrance and communion hymns, for one thing, are 2nd class substitutes for the antiphons that are the proper chant for those times, and modern hymns in the missalettes are poor 3rd class substitutes for older more orthodox class hymns

why not have your group meet with the music people since you are not going to make any significant changes if they are not on board with this.

 

[revert_jen]

My Spiritual Life Committee would like to organize a Mass in which we replace the hymns with Chant. Not being a musician or a liturgist, I don’t know if this something that can be done. However, I was chosen to research it!

My first question: Is this allowed? Does one have to use music in Mass from one of the hymnals?

Secondly, does anyone have any resources I could look at to find out how this could be done? I would like to go to the music director with research in hand when we propose this.

Thanks for you time.

Wow, that’s great! And props to you for taking it on with no experience. :clapping: A lot of people would just have said, “I don’t know how to do this” and then it just wouldn’t have gotten done.

There are a lot of resources available on this site: musicasacra.com especially the Chant Books and Literature tabs. Also there is a forum there too. One of the nice things about this site is that the chants generally include an English translation (not necessarily notated, but just included at the end so people know what they are singing ). There is a complete set of the Communios (Communion antiphons) with indices for both the 1970 (OF) and 1962 (EF) Missals.

The Jubilate Deo booklet that YoungTradCath mentioned is located here: ceciliaschola.org/notes/jubilatedeo.html. It has chants for the ordinary (including the creed) and some other hymns, and can be freely distributed, even to the congregation, without any worries about copyright. There are both square-note and round-note versions.

I hope this is helpful, and best wishes to you on your project!

–Jen

 

[OraLabora]

The Gregorian Missal is available from www.solesmes.com and includes all the Latin propers and ordinary (kyrie in Greek of course) but also has the translation (not noted) alongside. It’s completely approved and appropriate for the OF Mass for Sundays, solemnities and feasts and also the triduum liturgy including Good Friday.

 

[YoungTradCath]

**The hymns we are familiar with are actually replacements for the chanted Propers: the entrance hymn replaces the Entrance Antiphon, etc. It is totally proper (no pun intended) to use the the Propers instead of hymns. Here’s a website where you might get more information and a way of getting what you’re looking for. These Propers are in English. If you want to sing them in Latin, there are three options listed in the GIRM.
**
canticanova.com/articles/liturgy/art9bp1.htm

I’ve never really understood this whole situation. Could you explain?

 

[Phemie]

I’ve never really understood this whole situation. Could you explain?

Have you ever noticed that when there is no entrance hymn, weekday Mass for example, we recite the entrance antiphon? That’s the Proper of the day. We could be chanting that in Latin as it’s the first choice given to us in GIRM 48:
(1) the antiphon from the Missal or the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum, as set to music there or in another setting;
(2) the antiphon and Psalm of the Graduale Simplex for the liturgical time;
(3) a chant from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including Psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (those would be the English Propers in the website I mentioned)
(4) another liturgical chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop.

While # 4 now says ‘liturgical chant’ it used to say hymn and since we could use hymns we generally did even if it was the least of the options given.

 

[corsair]

And here; isaacjogues.org/?startdate=02-08-2009&enddate=01-29-2012

 

[YoungTradCath]

Have you ever noticed that when there is no entrance hymn, weekday Mass for example, we recite the entrance antiphon? That’s the Proper of the day. We could be chanting that in Latin as it’s the first choice given to us in GIRM 48:
(1) the antiphon from the Missal or the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum, as set to music there or in another setting;
(2) the antiphon and Psalm of the Graduale Simplex for the liturgical time;
(3) a chant from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including Psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (those would be the English Propers in the website I mentioned)
(4) another liturgical chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop.

While # 4 now says ‘liturgical chant’ it used to say hymn and since we could use hymns we generally did even if it was the least of the options given.

I’m assuming that hymns from the mediocre book Gather would fall under option 4? I’ve actually never been to a mass with no entrance hymn, so I have no real idea what an entrance antiphon is.

 

[Phemie]

I’m assuming that hymns from the mediocre book Gather would fall under option 4? I’ve actually never been to a mass with no entrance hymn, so I have no real idea what an entrance antiphon is.

Yes, they would fall under option 4 – at least option 4 as it was.

Think of the Responsorial Psalm. The response is an antiphon.

Every day there is an antiphon specific to the Entrance. This coming Sunday it’s from Sirach: “Give peace, Lord, to those who wait for you and your prophets will proclaim you as you deserve. Hear the prayers of your servant and of your people Israel”.

That antiphon and it’s accompanying psalm can be sung or you can opt for a bad hymn instead. Since there is no choir at our Saturday evening Mass, if no one volunteers to sing an entrance hymn we will recite the Entrance Antiphon. On Sunday they will sing “Gather Us In” (or something equally edifying) instead of using the antiphon.

There is also one specific to Communion and unless I misunderstood, there is one for the Offertory although I’ve never seen it included in our missalettes.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Yes, they would fall under option 4 – at least option 4 as it was.

Think of the Responsorial Psalm. The response is an antiphon.

Every day there is an antiphon specific to the Entrance. This coming Sunday it’s from Sirach: “Give peace, Lord, to those who wait for you and your prophets will proclaim you as you deserve. Hear the prayers of your servant and of your people Israel”.

That antiphon and it’s accompanying psalm can be sung or you can opt for a bad hymn instead. Since there is no choir at our Saturday evening Mass, if no one volunteers to sing an entrance hymn we will recite the Entrance Antiphon. On Sunday they will sing “Gather Us In” (or something equally edifying) instead of using the antiphon.

There is also one specific to Communion and unless I misunderstood, there is one for the Offertory although I’ve never seen it included in our missalettes.

And is the reason that these antiphons are not used part of this liberal mainstream stuff? Or is it for another reason?

 

[JGMendes4049]

There is also one specific to Communion and unless I misunderstood, there is one for the Offertory although I’ve never seen it included in our missalettes.

Your missalette contains the antiphons from the Missale Romanum, I bet. There is no offertory antiphon in the MR. However, the Gradual Romanum and the Graduale Simplex have antiphons for the offertory. It’s kind of confusing, I know.

 

[Phemie]

And is the reason that these antiphons are not used part of this liberal mainstream stuff? Or is it for another reason?

I think it’s because most choirs aren’t even aware they exist. Sure, large choirs with trained musical directors are one thing but most smaller parishes don’t have liturgically trained musical directors, they have someone who can sing and volunteers to put a choir together. They sing what they’ve always sung since they were kids in school: hymns – and often the same hymns they sang when they were kids in school. The wouldn’t know an antiphon if it came up and bit them. They know nothing about the GIRM or what it says and they don’t spend any time reading this site or Chant Cafe or Cantinova or anything like that.

That’s why you’ll attend a Midnight Mass in a parish with a beautiful choir and hear “Angels we have heard on high” instead of the Responsorial Psalm. Or Mass on Jan. 1 and hear Christmas carols and not one hymn about Mary even though it’s the Feast of Mary, Mother of God. They simply don’t know better.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I think it’s because most choirs aren’t even aware they exist. Sure, large choirs with trained musical directors are one thing but most smaller parishes don’t have liturgically trained musical directors, they have someone who can sing and volunteers to put a choir together. They sing what they’ve always sung since they were kids in school: hymns – and often the same hymns they sang when they were kids in school. The wouldn’t know an antiphon if it came up and bit them. They know nothing about the GIRM or what it says and they don’t spend any time reading this site or Chant Cafe or Cantinova or anything like that.

That’s why you’ll attend a Midnight Mass in a parish with a beautiful choir and hear “Angels we have heard on high” instead of the Responsorial Psalm. Or Mass on Jan. 1 and hear Christmas carols and not one hymn about Mary even though it’s the Feast of Mary, Mother of God. They simply don’t know better.

Well, isn’t it the priest’s responsibility and charge to ensure these kinds of things work like they’re supposed to?

 

[Phemie]

Well, isn’t it the priest’s responsibility and charge to ensure these kinds of things work like they’re supposed to?

Ah, so young, so naive.

Some priests will stay out of it for fear of alienating the choir and ending up with no music or singing. Some priests don`t care, and some simply see nothing wrong with singing the stuff they sang when they were growing up and in the seminary.

My former pastor was the last kind. He wanted all the stuff he’d sung in the 70s, all the stuff we on these sites cringe at. He got quite upset when I suggested in a friendly chit-chat over tea that a certain song we sang wasn’t liturgically correct. “Are you suggesting that we sang things that weren’t liturgically correct in the seminary?” “Er, yes?” As long as there was singing he wasn’t too picky about what it was.