Using danger to alter public opinion: good or bad?

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Aristotle once wrote something like: “a ruler should use the fear of peril to rally the citizens to constitution”. Now that’s very reichstag fire-ish and machiavellian.

But perhaps it is good advice if these questions can be answered:

(1) we know that God permits physical evils to come to humans in order to get a greater good. Is this the specific reason why God allows this or is there some other reason?

(2) If this is the specific reason, then it is especially true that, because God allows suffering and for that specific reason, it is good for a ruler (by analogy) to permit violence to come to his citizens in order to get a greater good (For God does this too in order to bring power to his kingdom). So if 9/11 was a conspiracy then it would be perfectly fine in principle?

(3) So is this conclusion right or wrong?
 
OP, I will say that to use fear to drive public opinion in support of war is bad if the fear is ungrounded. I believe this happens all the time, as fear and love are the most powerfully motivating emotions.

In regards to 9/11, I don’t think fear was used for any ultimate good, at least not for the good of Americans. But, I would be careful here, I don’t think much discussion about that is allowed on the forums.
 
OP, I will say that to use fear to drive public opinion in support of war is bad if the fear is ungrounded. I believe this happens all the time, as fear and love are the most powerfully motivating emotions.

In regards to 9/11, I don’t think fear was used for any ultimate good, at least not for the good of Americans. But, I would be careful here, I don’t think much discussion about that is allowed on the forums.
Disregard then the implications on 9/11.
 
God permits evil, he does not cause it.
Exactly though, would it be right for a ruler to permit that some harm come to his citizens in order to save the whole constitution?

For instance, if there was danger that the constitution would be changed to a tyranny or despotism, would it be right for the president to allow foreign enemies to successfully attack the US in order to keep the constitution from being destroyed?
 
Aristotle once wrote something like: “a ruler should use the fear of peril to rally the citizens to constitution”. Now that’s very reichstag fire-ish and machiavellian.

But perhaps it is good advice if these questions can be answered:

(1) we know that God permits physical evils to come to humans in order to get a greater good. Is this the specific reason why God allows this or is there some other reason?

(2) If this is the specific reason, then it is especially true that, because God allows suffering and for that specific reason, it is good for a ruler (by analogy) to permit violence to come to his citizens in order to get a greater good (For God does this too in order to bring power to his kingdom). So if 9/11 was a conspiracy then it would be perfectly fine in principle?

(3) So is this conclusion right or wrong?
Crating fear in the population is common. Almost every day, the newspaper tells us to fear this or that. The same with the government. Sometimes, these fears are true and accurate, and sometimes not. It would be better to just tell the public the truth, soberly, and give them a course of action.

For those who have researched the 9/11 incident, there are still questions that are unanswered. But whatever one thinks actually happened, there is history on the books that war was provoked by the aggressor and blamed on the other side (i.e. agents of the enemy attacked our outposts, when, in fact, no such attacks occurred), who actually did nothing to provoke a war.

Peace,
Ed
 
Crating fear in the population is common. Almost every day, the newspaper tells us to fear this or that. The same with the government. Sometimes, these fears are true and accurate, and sometimes not. It would be better to just tell the public the truth, soberly, and give them a course of action.

For those who have researched the 9/11 incident, there are still questions that are unanswered. But whatever one thinks actually happened, there is history on the books that war was provoked by the aggressor and blamed on the other side (i.e. agents of the enemy attacked our outposts, when, in fact, no such attacks occurred), who actually did nothing to provoke a war.

Peace,
Ed
But it can’t always be better to tell the public the actual state of affairs or else, there is no possible scenario where we do need the ability to deceive and conceal stuff from the “populace” w/o sin like through the use of omission or mental reservations. However one can easily imagine such scenarios that could occur or did occur. For instance, in the case of public riot or panic, it may be necessary to omit facts or mislead with truth in order to keep public calm. Or in the case of foreign diplomacy, it may be necessary to omit certain details of foreign policy to protect oversees interests/commerce and etc.

Additionally, telling people the truth is not just telling them the actual states of affairs but also telling them with sincerity. So if you told people something that you thought was true, and was objectively true (though misleading), then indeed you would be telling the truth
 
But it can’t always be better to tell the public the actual state of affairs or else, there is no possible scenario where we do need the ability to deceive and conceal stuff from the “populace” w/o sin like through the use of omission or mental reservations. However one can easily imagine such scenarios that could occur or did occur. For instance, in the case of public riot or panic, it may be necessary to omit facts or mislead with truth in order to keep public calm. Or in the case of foreign diplomacy, it may be necessary to omit certain details of foreign policy to protect oversees interests/commerce and etc.

Additionally, telling people the truth is not just telling them the actual states of affairs but also telling them with sincerity. So if you told people something that you thought was true, and was objectively true (though misleading), then indeed you would be telling the truth
Your position lacks examples. During the Second World War, the British government told their people that explosions caused by the impact of V-2 rockets were actually explosions caused by gas main explosions. However, eyewitnesses soon realized that shortly after the explosion “there was a sound like a great body moving through the air.” The V-2 was supersonic.

Yes, secret information must be kept from the public and our enemies, but, under certain circumstances, some information needs to be made known. Especially if the general public is in imminent danger.

“thought was true”? What does that mean? As a student of the intelligence community, here is how it goes. A piece of intel comes in and job number one is to investigate and verify the accuracy of the report. Depending on the threat it represents, this could involve satellites, men on the ground, remotely operated drones and other means.

“objectively true” is something different. You have verified the threat exists and your military planners are working on solutions while certain diplomats are brought into the loop. No, you do not need to tell the public much, especially how you got the information, but you need to be convincing.

That is why President John F. Kennedy publicly allowed TV reporters to show enlargements of photos taken by a spy plane (I do not recall if the type was identified at the time) of medium-range nuclear missile emplacements on Cuba which triggered the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. It was not until many years later that more details came out, but the President went on TV at the time and in plain language, let the Russians know that an attack, including an attack launched from Eastern Europe against our Allies, would be considered an attack on the United States and that an appropriate response would occur.

Domestic riot control is a subject that has been extensively studied and a multitude of scenarios and responses already exist. The CIA is one good source of scenario information. So, why do riots occur? Around the world, they occur because starving people are trying to overthrow their government or get at food supplies, because if they can’t get the food, they will die anyway. Sometimes, anti-government protests are instigated by outside parties telling people something false. Or, in the US, riots occur because a bunch of drunk and/or stoned students flip over a few private cars or start them on fire and damage storefronts because their favorite team lost a football game.

I can’t think of a single real world example that applies to what you are saying.

Peace,
Ed
 
Your position lacks examples. During the Second World War, the British government told their people that explosions caused by the impact of V-2 rockets were actually explosions caused by gas main explosions. However, eyewitnesses soon realized that shortly after the explosion “there was a sound like a great body moving through the air.” The V-2 was supersonic.

Yes, secret information must be kept from the public and our enemies, but, under certain circumstances, some information needs to be made known. Especially if the general public is in imminent danger.

“thought was true”? What does that mean? As a student of the intelligence community, here is how it goes. A piece of intel comes in and job number one is to investigate and verify the accuracy of the report. Depending on the threat it represents, this could involve satellites, men on the ground, remotely operated drones and other means.

“objectively true” is something different. You have verified the threat exists and your military planners are working on solutions while certain diplomats are brought into the loop. No, you do not need to tell the public much, especially how you got the information, but you need to be convincing.

That is why President John F. Kennedy publicly allowed TV reporters to show enlargements of photos taken by a spy plane (I do not recall if the type was identified at the time) of medium-range nuclear missile emplacements on Cuba which triggered the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. It was not until many years later that more details came out, but the President went on TV at the time and in plain language, let the Russians know that an attack, including an attack launched from Eastern Europe against our Allies, would be considered an attack on the United States and that an appropriate response would occur.

Domestic riot control is a subject that has been extensively studied and a multitude of scenarios and responses already exist. The CIA is one good source of scenario information. So, why do riots occur? Around the world, they occur because starving people are trying to overthrow their government or get at food supplies, because if they can’t get the food, they will die anyway. Sometimes, anti-government protests are instigated by outside parties telling people something false. Or, in the US, riots occur because a bunch of drunk and/or stoned students flip over a few private cars or start them on fire and damage storefronts because their favorite team lost a football game.

I can’t think of a single real world example that applies to what you are saying.

Peace,
Ed
When I was talking about “thought was true” I was only describing (to the best of my knowledge) the theory of mental reservations and the unique Thomist theory of truth that accompanies it. According to Thomas, truth is a correspondence of the mind with external conditions. If that is true, then there is no truth w/o minds or mental perception. Therefore something may be called true to the extent that someone thinks that it is true and to the extent that the thought corresponds with what is real. Therefore, something like the CIA can mislead people and still be telling the truth as long as it says something that is true and which they believe to be true. This is possible because it is possible for people to believe what they say in a different sense from what they mean. But even if the CIA does not say something objectively true, they still don’t lie (as long as they believe they are giving an account of the objective, that is) since a lie is not always a falsity.

If you say I lack examples then are you saying that the idea that the gov. could permit danger for a better good is either equivalent to a contradiction or entails a contradiction?

For it seems that if something is always wrong, then it is truth-functionally false (logically contradictory). So then either that something either is or implies a contradiction. Which one is it and why?
 
When I was talking about “thought was true” I was only describing (to the best of my knowledge) the theory of mental reservations and the unique Thomist theory of truth that accompanies it. According to Thomas, truth is a correspondence of the mind with external conditions. If that is true, then there is no truth w/o minds or mental perception. Therefore something may be called true to the extent that someone thinks that it is true and to the extent that the thought corresponds with what is real. Therefore, something like the CIA can mislead people and still be telling the truth as long as it says something that is true and which they believe to be true. This is possible because it is possible for people to believe what they say in a different sense from what they mean. But even if the CIA does not say something objectively true, they still don’t lie (as long as they believe they are giving an account of the objective, that is) since a lie is not always a falsity.

If you say I lack examples then are you saying that the idea that the gov. could permit danger for a better good is either equivalent to a contradiction or entails a contradiction?

For it seems that if something is always wrong, then it is truth-functionally false (logically contradictory). So then either that something either is or implies a contradiction. Which one is it and why?
I asked a priest today and he said that a ruler could permit evils like God permits his kingdom to be assailed by the devil, under the principle of double effect.

So I guess that settles it for me.
 
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