O
OraLabora
Guest
When praying it in the vernacular, I think you are supposed to use the version approved by your episcopal conference.
- Status
No, you should use only the approved vernacular edition for your jurisdiction. You can mix and match with the Latin with no problem just as at Mass.
E
EphelDuath
Guest
But again, if you’re not canonically bound, it really doesn’t matter. It’s not a different prayer just because the translation you’re using is slightly differently worded. The only reason it’s even regulated is because clerics are expected to pray them publicly.
A reading of the Second Vatican Council and the General Instruction tells us that the Church offers it as her prayer to all the faithful and it remains the liturgy of the hours. It’s regulated because it’s liturgy.
GILH:
- Lay groups gathering for prayer, apostolic work, or any other reason are encouraged to fulfill the Church’s duty, [103] by celebrating part of the liturgy of the hours. The laity must learn above all how in the liturgy they are adoring God the Father in spirit and in truth; [104] they should bear in mind that through public worship and prayer they reach all humanity and can contribute significantly to the salvation of the whole world. [105]
- Other religious communities and their individual members are advised to celebrate some parts of the liturgy of the hours, in accordance with their own situation, for **it is the prayer of the Church and makes the whole Church, scattered throughout the world, one in heart and mind. [119] This recommendation applies also to laypersons. **[120]"
- Hence **all **who render this service are not only fulfilling a duty of the Church, but also are sharing in the greatest honor of Christ’s spouse, for by offering these praises to God they are standing before God’s throne in the name of the Church their Mother.
- …And the laity, too, are encouraged to recite the divine office, either with the priests, or among themselves, or even individually.
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EphelDuath
Guest
From the excerpts you’ve quoted, it seems to apply to public celebrations (which I gave as the reason why it’s regulated for clerics). It does not seem to apply to private celebration.
I don’t think you’re “not” praying the Divine Office just because you privately choose to use a different translation. That’s such a legalistic interpretation that it raises too many questions. What about the older priests that were given permission to continue to pray the pre-Vatican II Breviary? The prayers are much different in those but because of the indult they’re still fulfilling their canonically-bound duty.
I don’t think you’re “not” praying the Divine Office just because you privately choose to use a different translation. That’s such a legalistic interpretation that it raises too many questions. What about the older priests that were given permission to continue to pray the pre-Vatican II Breviary? The prayers are much different in those but because of the indult they’re still fulfilling their canonically-bound duty.
You answered your own question. Because they have been given permission to fulfill their obligation with the old breviary. They are still participating in the prayer of the Church. That’s also true now for clerics with Summorum Pontificum. But switch to English with the old Breviary and they do not join the prayer of the Church and therefore do not fulfill their obligation.
The recognitio for translation of the liturgy for liturgical purposes is reserved to the Holy See.
O
OraLabora
Guest
It may seem contradictory, but even prayed in private the LOTH is the “public” prayer of the Church. It can be prayed in a private or public setting but if carried out using an approved version following the rubrics and liturgical calendar, it is “public” prayer regardless of the setting. As Liturgy, it belongs to the whole Church, and only the Church’s legitimate authorities can permit changes.
If one uses an unapproved translation or ignores the rubrics and calendar intentionally then it is a private devotion, again regardless of the setting.
Through liturgy such as the LOTH we attach ourselves implicitly to the Body of Christ.
For me at least that has great value. By using a liturgy that I don’t always find to my tastes, as the LOTH sometimes can be, I feel I am also making an act of humility and obedience. A favorite commentary on the Rule of St. Benedict states that we are praying for and with the entire Church. It’s “not all about me”.
If one uses an unapproved translation or ignores the rubrics and calendar intentionally then it is a private devotion, again regardless of the setting.
Through liturgy such as the LOTH we attach ourselves implicitly to the Body of Christ.
For me at least that has great value. By using a liturgy that I don’t always find to my tastes, as the LOTH sometimes can be, I feel I am also making an act of humility and obedience. A favorite commentary on the Rule of St. Benedict states that we are praying for and with the entire Church. It’s “not all about me”.
^ This.
It’s not a question of whether or not one is bound to it, but whether or not one wants to participate in the public prayer of the Church.
D
Digitonomy
Guest
Caution: Nit-picking in progress
Also, earlier you said this, which does not seem in accord with your statement above:
OraLabora:
Are there different English translations? I seem to remember that there once were, but that may be different now. If so, and I have a quasi-domicile in more than one country, then can I mix and match? And what if I’m an anglophone but my episcopal conference has only chosen versions in local languages that I don’t speak?
Also, earlier you said this, which does not seem in accord with your statement above:
I’m really not familiar with the variety of different approved offices, so perhaps I’m seeing a contradiction where there is none.
Ora is multilingual so he may know more. My guess is, though, to use the edition of the English-speaking jurisdiction you trace your roots from, such as your country of origin.
There is no conflict with Ora’s statements. The official rubrics in the Liturgy of the Hours allow for certain variety, such as substituting Psalm 95 for Psalm 100, 24 or 67 during the Invitatory. Or selecting a hymn from another day but within the same season.
With regard to other offices, Ora is a Benedictine Oblate, so he is permitted to participate in the official prayer of the Church using the editions approved by the Benedictine abbey with which he is affiliated. The FSSP (and since September 14, 2007, all Roman-rite clerics) are permitted to use the Roman Breviary of 1961. The Ordinariate of our Lady of Walsingham now has a new arrangement as laid out in their recently-published Customary. And of course, the Eastern Catholics have their own Divine Office which are way different from the nobly simple Roman office, but it’s still the Divine Office nonetheless.
The key thing is, all this variety is approved and promulgated by the proper authority with recognitio by the Holy See. None of these are due to individuals doing what they want.
D
Digitonomy
Guest
So if I attend mass and say the Divine Office at an Eastern Catholic or Anglican use parish, I’m reciting the public prayer of the Church when I’m there, but when I use the same text at home, as a run of the mill Latin I’m no longer reciting the public prayer of the Church?
O
OraLabora
Guest
^This too!
For English, I only know the US/Canadian ICEL version. I believe there’s a version applicable to the UK, Australia and maybe other places. The translations in breviaries like the Monastic Diurnal, or Benedictine Daily Prayer, are not liturgical. In the former case, it’s merely to assist understanding of the Latin. In the latter case, it’s really not an “official” Divine Office.
For versions… meaning psalm arrangements, well, variety is the spice of life. To name a few off the top of my head (I’ll stick to post-Vatican II here for simplicity)
Monastic schema A (St. Benedict’s original schema), still in use 1500 years later
Monastic schema B (also I believe identical to Cistercian schema C), since the late 60s (150 psalms per week)
Monastic Schemas C and D, 2-week cycle
Carthusian breviary, very similar to Monastic A.
Schema B also has several options: a couple of different two-week divisions, and the option to use Vigils on a 2-week cycle with the psalms of compline for the 2nd nocturne so that psalms 4, 90 and 133 can be used at compline every night (this is also a legitimate option in the current 4-week LOTH)
A couple of “house” schemas. A schema that seems popular in the UK has Matins and Mid-day prayer on a 4-week cycle with Matins being Vigils and Lauds combined, and with Vespers on a 1-week cycle following the Monastic Antiphonary, with ps. 4, 90 and 133 at Compline every night.
An Abbot constitutes ecclesiastical authority in his abbey with the same powers over his community as a bishop (which is why the abbot uses mitre and crozier at solemn occasions), and thus has jurisdiction to select his community’s breviary. But in all times, the readings and collects follow the Roman Church as do the OT canticles at Vigils and Lauds and the Gospel canticles at Lauds and Vespers, and the basic structure of the hours are the same, although the monastic option of using the hymn after the reading at Lauds and Vespers is a valid choice. As is the option to replace the responsory with a versicle (in the chanted Office, it is the oldest melody going back over a thousand years, which is why many communities retain it), chanted after the hymn; the hymn and versicle thus are then the “response” to the reading. Traditional Monastic Compline is also different than the Roman version: the psalms are chanted in directum (without antiphon), the responsory is replaced by a versicle, and there’s no Gospel canticle (Nunc Dimittis). I could go on with other monastic options, it would end up being an even longer post!
For monks, the Divine Office is their “day job” as it were. Actually it’s also their night job as well. Some communities, especially those with busy external apostolates, will use the 4-week LOTH, but most use either a 2- or 1- week cycle. But it’s still valid liturgy, just as a Mass in Gregorian chant, sacred polyphony, approved modern hymns, not sung, or using different penitential rite options, or different EPs, are valid liturgy as long as the options selected are valid. The “essentials” will remain the same: the words of consecration, the lectionary, the collects.
The Roman liturgy (the Divine Office and Mass are in fact all one liturgy with the Mass at its summit) actually allows for a considerable amount of variety within its boundaries.
But there are boundaries, outside of which it is no longer liturgy.
Those bound to the LOTH must pray the whole thing. The difference between those bound and not bound, is not that those not bound can do as they please; it’s that those not bound can select which hours to pray; and those not praying in community can use any of the legitimate options permitted by the rubrics. Those in community will be bound by their Rule, which means the superior gets to decide on which options will be used, whereas those praying individually, including secular priests, can chose the legitimate options on their own.
My thoughts are yes, you still are reciting the public prayer of the Church even then, because you are using approved texts (although from what I know, I would not dare even try using the Byzantine Office).
O
OraLabora
Guest
The GILH states:
As laity we aren’t under obligation, so we have no obligation to fulfill. If we are, say, on retreat at a monastery and we participate in the Offices there, we are participating in public liturgy. For clerics or religious, when they participate when visiting a monastery, they have fulfilled their obligation, they aren’t obliged to repeat the Office under the formula they normally use.
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EphelDuath
Guest
You are right, I admit I am wrong. I apologize for the error.
And while I have no authoritative source to back this up, I would say that laity who recite any approved office even alone also participate in the public prayer of the Church. I’m inclined to think that one who is not part of the Ordinariate, for example, still participates in the official prayer of the Church if he picks up the Customary and says the office as laid out there. Ditto for the 1961 Roman Breviary. I think though, that he would not participate in the official prayer of the Church if he picks up, say, the 1910 Roman Breviary.
O
OraLabora
Guest
I’m inclined to agree. I would say that if one customarily attends an OF Mass, it may make more sense to use the LOTH, whereas if one customarily attends the EF Mass, the 1961 Breviary (or pre-Vatican II Monastic breviary) would be more suitable, as in reality the LOTH and the Mass are really one liturgy of which the Mass is the summit. So for the sake of congruence with the Mass the form of the Divine Office used should match. Same for the Ordinariate.
That said, the 1961 Breviary, and even less the Monastic Breviary, were not really designed with the laity in mind, whereas the LOTH was intended to inspire a broader participation of the laity. Of course as laity one can say only part of the older breviaries, as we’re not bound. I myself like to do the entire psalter, so given my professional obligations, commute, etc., the LOTH makes most sense for me. When I worked more from home, the Monastic schema my abbey uses was what I used. But even post-Vatican II, a monastic breviary is heavy work at 250 psalms per week. The 1961, and the monastic schema B breviaries are 150 psalms per week, and that’s still a challenge. When I use it, I have to chant less and recite more. I’d also rather do a full breviary over 4 weeks than a partial one over one week.
But that’s an option open to me, still within the liturgical boundaries.
Yes. I myself attend the EF Mass on Sundays but it does not profit me to use the 1961 Roman Breviary. So I do have a disconnect between calendars and Collects but in a way, I still manage to keep a connection with the Ordinary Form with my regular praying of the modern Liturgy of the Hours.
O
OraLabora
Guest
That’s one way of looking at it. Indeed if one goes overboard on the Office, one can lose balance in one’s prayer life. That’s what I found when my available free time went down with a job change (coupled to a new monster commute). The switch from the 1-week monastic to the 4-week LOTH restored the balance and gave me a bit of added flexibility. The 1961 is roughly the same “workload” as Monastic B.
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babochka
Guest
Yes, the Byzantine Office is quite… ummm… byzantine. And not available all in one book.
It might be an option for the OP, though, if he wants to be sure about praying the prayer of the church. While the Ruthenian church uses a revised version of the Grail psalter, there are many Byzantine Rite jurisdictions and others might use (or simply not specify) a translation. For example, I believe the Russian Catholic church generally uses the materials and translations used by the Russian Orthodox church.
The Byzantine hours are quite different though, and very heavy on the psalms. At the end of a week of praying the hours, I believe all of the psalms will have been prayed.
- Status