Using Eastern Catholicism as a vehicle to convert protestants?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hogwash. Anyone can become an Eastern Catholic. Whether they are formerly protestant, LDS or Wiccan. This policy of Protestants becoming roman rite Catholics is not true. If they want to be coptic catholic they have every right to.

I am sorry but you are wrong on this.

There are canons regarding this but I do not have the time to search them out, maybe someone out there can recall them, at least the Canon numbers and I can look them up for you.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

This is from a Byzantine Catholic Deacon on the Byzantine Catholic Forum. Here is the thread.
byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/352455/Melkite%20Catholics#Post352455

Latin Catholic asks: “I should like a specific quote to substantiate this claim. In particular I would like to know if there are currently any difficulties if a baptized non-Catholic wishes to join, say, the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church?”

Some Latins have claimed this based on a faulty reading of:

CCEO Canon 35

“Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.”

Since the above was intended to encourage Orthodox coming in to communion to retain their rite, and only a Church can possess a rite, and Protestant’s dont have true churches but ecclesial communities the above does not mean Protestants are auto enrolled in the Latin Church the way Orthodox are auto enrolled into a Byzantine Church upon conversion. Only Old Catholics and Polish National Catholics would be considered enrolled in the Latin Church upon entering communion.

 

[dcointin]

This is from a Byzantine Catholic Deacon on the Byzantine Catholic Forum. Here is the thread.
byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/352455/Melkite%20Catholics#Post352455

Thank you for the clarification on this, I was wondering the same thing myself.

Do you have any idea if the situation would be different if someone were Protestant, then converted to Orthodoxy, then to Catholicism?

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

They’d probably be a Byzantine Catholic. But I feel the canon is a strong suggestion and doesn’t bind anyone anywhere. Basically the church wanted to enrich it’s eastern brothers by making it easier for Orthodox to become Eastern Catholic. But if they don’t want to, they should not be forced to.

 

[dcointin]

That’s good to hear, the principle of “econonomia” should always predominate in areas of canon law I think. In my own situation, I was raised Lutheran (LC-MS), then converted to Orthodoxy (Antiochian) after college, and am now in a serious relationship with a Catholic girl, so I’ve been trying to understand her faith better and was curious what would happen in my case if I hypothetically became Catholic. There are two sui uris churches in my area (St. Louis), both of which I’ve visited. One is Maronite, and I found the liturgy to be a curious mixing of Roman and Antiochian traditions, but beautiful, although the architecture and furnishings are hideous. The other is a tiny Ruthenian mission that meets in an office space. Unfortunately there’s not a Melkite parish, which I’m told is the equivalent to the Antiochian Orthodox Church.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

Yeah. The Melkite and the Antiochian Church came from the same Orthodox body in the 18th century. Both the Antiochian Patriarch and the Melkite Patriarch lay claim to the title of “Patriarch of Antioch”.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve met a couple of people yesterday at DL who were former Protestants. One was a Baptist.

Here’s a question. If I am a Latin Rite Catholic and became Protestant, do I have to be Latin Rite again when I return? Or can I become canonically an Eastern Catholic?

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

I’ve met a couple of people yesterday at DL who were former Protestants. One was a Baptist.

Here’s a question. If I am a Latin Rite Catholic and became Protestant, do I have to be Latin Rite again when I return? Or can I become canonically an Eastern Catholic?

You could return as an Eastern Catholic…

I was baptised in the Roman Rite, became Anglican for a while and eventually was chrismated in the Byzantine Rite.

 

[ConstantineTG]

You could return as an Eastern Catholic…

I was baptised in the Roman Rite, became Anglican for a while and eventually was chrismated in the Byzantine Rite.

Awesome. So tomorrow I’m Anglican. Wednesday I’ll be a Byzantine Catholic

Although I’ve already been Confirmed.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

Awesome. So tomorrow I’m Anglican. Wednesday I’ll be a Byzantine Catholic

LOL. Please don’t become an anglican. It’s not as awesome as many would believe.

 

[ConstantineTG]

LOL. Please don’t become an anglican. It’s not as awesome as many would believe.

Hahahah. Although there is a TAC parish in our area. I’m planning to go to Mass there as soon as the Ordinariate is established and the Communion with Rome is formalized.
edit: I mean go to Mass there at least once to experience the Anglican Use Mass

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

I’ve been to two TAC parishes. I really liked them. One was very high church and pulled no stops. With a full choir, high altar and just beautiful western piety everywhere. The other unfortunately is now no longer in communion with the TAC. It was on the lower end of the Anglo Catholic spectrum. Strictly prayerbook 1928 with tempered Anglican piety. But it was still beautiful. Hopefully God will call them in their hearts.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’ve met a couple of people yesterday at DL who were former Protestants. One was a Baptist.

Here’s a question. If I am a Latin Rite Catholic and became Protestant, do I have to be Latin Rite again when I return? Or can I become canonically an Eastern Catholic?

You would return as a Latin Catholic and would have to go through the process to change sui juris Churches.

 

[dcointin]

I’ve been to two TAC parishes. I really liked them. One was very high church and pulled no stops. With a full choir, high altar and just beautiful western piety everywhere. The other unfortunately is now no longer in communion with the TAC. It was on the lower end of the Anglo Catholic spectrum. Strictly prayerbook 1928 with tempered Anglican piety. But it was still beautiful. Hopefully God will call them in their hearts.

I have a good friend who is an Anglican priest in Texas, and he’s very traditional in his celebration of the liturgy. We still talk regularly, and agree on virtually everything, which is a testament to the orthodoxy that is still present in the Anglican communion. Unfortunately he knows that he’s a minority in that church, and that one day he may be forced to make a difficult decision about his future. I asked him what he thought about becoming Catholic and the recent overtures that Pope Benedict XVI made toward Anglicans, but he seemed unimpressed, and said that it insisted on too much conformity to Roman practice, such as priestly celibacy (I’ve not read what Benedict said so I can’t comment on it). He’s also strongly disagrees with the ultramontine understanding of the Papacy. Anyhow, I think the Catholic Church could learn alot about how to celebrate a good western liturgy from them!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I have a good friend who is an Anglican priest in Texas, and he’s very traditional in his celebration of the liturgy. We still talk regularly, and agree on virtually everything, which is a testament to the orthodoxy that is still present in the Anglican communion. Unfortunately he knows that he’s a minority in that church, and that one day he may be forced to make a difficult decision about his future. I asked him what he thought about becoming Catholic and the recent overtures that Pope Benedict XVI made toward Anglicans, but he seemed unimpressed, and said that it insisted on too much conformity to Roman practice, such as priestly celibacy (I’ve not read what Benedict said so I can’t comment on it). He’s also strongly disagrees with the ultramontine understanding of the Papacy. Anyhow, I think the Catholic Church could learn alot about how to celebrate a good western liturgy from them!

The Roman Church has accepted many former Anglican clergy into the priesthood even if they are married. I am unsure if this will continue though for Anglican Parishes in Communion with Rome for new priests in the future.

The only major issue right now is the bishops, because Anglicans have married bishops.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The Roman Church has accepted many former Anglican clergy into the priesthood even if they are married. I am unsure if this will continue though for Anglican Parishes in Communion with Rome for new priests in the future.

The only major issue right now is the bishops, because Anglicans have married bishops.

That is why in the set up of the ordinates it has been stated that the head of the ordinate need not be a bishop.

They would work like our religious orders work. A religious superior acts as the ordinary for the order and determines who and when a man will be ordained, he then gets a bishop to do the ordination but that bishop has no say in the man being ordained.

 

[ConstantineTG]

That is why in the set up of the ordinates it has been stated that the head of the ordinate need not be a bishop.

They would work like our religious orders work. A religious superior acts as the ordinary for the order and determines who and when a man will be ordained, he then gets a bishop to do the ordination but that bishop has no say in the man being ordained.

But wouldn’t they still fall under the disciplines of the Roman Church?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

But wouldn’t they still fall under the disciplines of the Roman Church?

Yes they will be ordinates within the Roman Church but the ordinaries for their parishes will be who ever heads the ordinate, not the local bishop. I also believe that something was said in the document about the Chuch will make an attempt to honor and keep some of their traditions which may mean that they could have married men ordained to the priesthood in the future.

But alas, we have gone off topic.

I will be willing to continue this discussion but I think we should make a new thread in a different forum.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hahahah. Although there is a TAC parish in our area. I’m planning to go to Mass there as soon as the Ordinariate is established and the Communion with Rome is formalized.
edit: I mean go to Mass there at least once to experience the Anglican Use Mass

Me to, I lived in the middle of these two Orthodox churchs for years. You don’t know how many times I wanted to go in to both.

maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-Address&rlz=1I7RNTN_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Orthodox+Church+Howard+Ave+Ansonia+CT&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Orthodox+Church&hnear=Howard+Ave,+Ansonia,+CT+06401&cid=14075983187910609076

click the viewable cam to englarge in the top link, then click again on the Photo and the moveable cam pop up, and could take you the opposite way on Howard Ave where This Church is. This ones seriously nice.

goarch.org/

Here

 

[bkovacs]

Hold on. thats not how I view them. The Catholic church is neither greek nor latin nor slav. My point was however, that they (eastern churches) can be used for conversion of heretics who hold hostilities to latin churches.

Relax

Actually back in the days when great Roman capitol of Constantinople existed, before the nomads took over with their false religion. The Catholics were referred to as Latins, and the Orthodox were called Romans by the locals who only accepted the first three ecumenical councils.