Using Mass to Sell Merchandise

[DrWeed]

Hello, I am a new member here. I was wondering if a knowledgeable person could tell me whether or not it is permissible to sell merchandise during Mass. Let me explain the situation in detail:

I recently went to my local parish and was shocked to find that a long table had been set up along the back pew to sell thousands of dollars worth of wooden carvings and other Christian-themed trinkets. One of the main entrance ways to the church not only looked like a display case in a shopping mall, but
the merchandise was on sale during the Mass itself. The priest said later that he had deliberately placed the merchandise where hundreds of parishioners would see it during Mass, in order to maximize sales, and defended his decision on the grounds that some of the proceeds would go to the relatively poor foreigners who made the items. The display was not a charity asking for donations, but a for-profit commercial enterprise.

Now I am all in favor of helping the poor, but there is a time and place for everything. From what I understand, selling any kind of merchandise in church, let alone during Mass, is sacriligious. Three of the Gospels say that on one occasion Jesus threw the money changers and traders out of the Temple for trading unfairly, but John 2:13-17 says he threw them out on another occasion for trading at all, for turning it into a “marketplace”; in fact, the Bible says this was the final straw that convinced the Pharisees and their friends to have him killed. The priest said a local theologian (at a seminary here that is run by prominent heretics) told him that Jesus only expelled the traders for trading unfairly and that selling merchandise during Mass is perfectly fine.

Now I know from all the saints’ biographies
I have read that they all universally interpret John 2:13-17 to mean that buying and selling in church is so sacriligious that Jesus resorted to violence to stop it. Some of them, like Ven. Mary of Agreda and Cassiodorus, only mention it in passing, but others like St. Augustine, St. Chrysostom, Origen and Aquinas are quite explicit about it. When I told my priest that, he merely said I should trust him, that the Church can change and that there was a “new understanding” now. Basically, he was saying to trust his authority rather than the consensus of all the saints and adamantly refused to even mull over selling the merchandise in some place less sensitive, like the rectory or church hall.

Here’s my question: is there anything explicit in canon law, liturgical regulations, papal encyclicals, church councils, etc. that expressly forbids or approves of buying and selling in church, especially during Mass? If I am wrong, I want to know, but if I am right, I need to do whatever I can to convince the priest to change his decision. He won’t listen to the saints, but I know him well enough to know that he might listen to an explicit ruling in canon law, or from a papal document, etc. If he won’t listen, I need to be prepared to know what I am talking about before I speak with my bishop. Please provide any citations you can. If you can’t answer the question, I would appreciate it if you could suggest someone trustworthy in the church hierarchy I could write to for a defininitive ruling. Thanks for your help in advance

Thanks,

– Steve

 

[DJgang]

Yes, you do need to research and get everything right before presenting your case to the Priest.

I will pray for you.

I don’t have the answers, but that just doesn’t seem right.

Can’t help but think how mad Jesus was with the coin collectors.

I look forward to reading the responses…so I’m subbing to this thread.

 

[Moyle]

I recently went to my local parish and was shocked to find that a long table had been set up along the back pew to sell thousands of dollars worth of wooden carvings and other Christian-themed trinkets…

I think it’s all about who it benefits and their reputation.

Once every year a group that raises money for Christians in the Holy Land comes and sets-up in our parish hall. Parishioners are encouraged to check out their wares after Mass. I see nothing wrong with that.

They also typically sell more to non-Catholic Christians (tourists) on those days as well so it’s actually a form of evangelization too.

I think it your case your priest needs to move it too your hall although I suspect his intentions were honorable.

 

[DJgang]

Huge difference between Parish Hall and the back of the Church, at the back of the pews.

 

[LilyM]

Put it this way - if his concern was, as he said, charitable - in other words not to make profts but instead do good for the underpaid workers who produced the items - then he has a good point.

I don’t see anything wrong with doing charitable fundraising in church, even if it is in an indirect form.

And it looks like you have a problem even with setting up for PURELY charitable goods in the Church … what, in your estimation, is the qualitative difference between collecting money from the congregation during the offertory for charitable purposes and raising money by selling goods at the back of the church for different but equally worthy charitable purposes, that makes the first option perfectly fine and the other not? I dont’ see it.

I’ve seen sales at the back of the church done, always only before and after Mass though. Oftentimes people simply don’t see or don’t have time to visit a stall set up elsewhere than in or attached to the actual church, and there are possibly other logistical reasons (extra lighting or heating or cooling bills, or security or staff or what have you) that may mitigate against opening the hall or other alternatives.

 

[Moyle]

Huge difference between Parish Hall and the back of the Church, at the back of the pews.

Not really.

Although I think it’s poor form to be selling anything during Mass.

 

[buffalo]

No. Merchandise should not be sold during the Mass or in the main part of the church.

 

[LilyM]

No. Merchandise should not be sold during the Mass or in the main part of the church.

At the back of the back pews hardly constitutes the ‘main’ part of the church.

Some churches have simply no vestibule or other ‘separate’ area of the church where such things could be done, nor any room for such, so de facto the back of the back pews becomes the equivalent of a vestibule - it will be where religious literature is placed, for example.

 

[buffalo]

At the back of the back pews hardly constitutes the ‘main’ part of the church.

Some churches have simply no vestibule or other ‘separate’ area of the church where such things could be done, nor any room for such, so de facto the back of the back pews becomes the equivalent of a vestibule - it will be where religious literature is placed, for example.

Behind the pews is in the main part. In any case selling during Mass? C’mon now.

 

[LilyM]

Behind the pews is in the main part. In any case selling during Mass? C’mon now.

Firstly - I reserve my opinion as to whether or not it should be done during Mass, although it certainly would be disruptive and so is probably not a good idea.

Secondly - what would you propose for those churches that have no alternative space? That they do nothing?

Thirdly - refer to my question above. What really makes such fundraising activity qualitiatively different from taking up collection money from congregants for various charitable works during the Mass itself?

 

[marietta]

The priest should be required to provide every parishioner a day sheet which clearly itemizes the monies received and the amount of proceeds sent to the “relatively poor foreigners who made the items.” This information could be printed in the Sunday Bulletin. It would not be unreasonable to request documentation of the transaction to be certain the proceeds did, in fact, reach the “poor foreigners”.

Selling merchandise for profit in a church during Mass? Disgraceful.

marietta

 

[LilyM]

The priest should be required to provide every parishioner a day sheet which clearly itemizes the monies received and the amount of proceeds sent to the “relatively poor foreigners who made the items.” This information could be printed in the Sunday Bulletin. It would not be unreasonable to request documentation of the transaction to be certain the proceeds did, in fact, reach the “poor foreigners”.

Selling merchandise for profit in a church during Mass? Disgraceful.

marietta

But he’s not selling it to make a profit - such is not his intent.

Your argument is like saying that raising money for a church building fund (say for a church in a poor community in the third world) during Mass is bad because as a consequence builders will make money out of doing the work.

 

[FrDavid96]

As for whether or not it’s allowed in the church, I’ll quote you what I think to be the relevant canons:

Canon 1210
Only those things which serve the exercise or promotion of worship, piety and religion are to be admitted into a sacred place; anything which is not in accord with the holiness of the place is forbidden. The ordinary, however, can permit other uses which are not contrary to the holiness of the place, in individual instances.

Canon 1220
All whose concern it is are to take care that such cleanliness and propriety is preserved in churches as befits the house of God and that anything which is out of keeping with the sanctity of the place is precluded.

As for engaging in commerce during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, I can’t find anything that specifically says it is forbidden. Anything, that is, besides common sense! There are plenty of examples of liturgical law which do very clearly forbid that anything be added to the Mass on one’s own authority. Common sense again says that this would apply!

In my humble opinion, I think that this is most definitely something that needs to be brought to the attention of the local bishop (which you’ve already said, but I just wanted to add that)

 

[FrDavid96]

Originally Posted by DJgang
Huge difference between Parish Hall and the back of the Church, at the back of the pews.

.

Not really.

Although I think it’s poor form to be selling anything during Mass.

Yes, there is a huge difference. The Church itself is a consecrated place, indeed, the most sacred of all spaces. The hall is not, even if it has been blessed.

 

[brigid12]

As for whether or not it’s allowed in the church, I’ll quote you what I think to be the relevant canons:

Canon 1210
Only those things which serve the exercise or promotion of worship, piety and religion are to be admitted into a sacred place; anything which is not in accord with the holiness of the place is forbidden. The ordinary, however, can permit other uses which are not contrary to the holiness of the place, in individual instances.

Canon 1220
All whose concern it is are to take care that such cleanliness and propriety is preserved in churches as befits the house of God and that anything which is out of keeping with the sanctity of the place is precluded.

As for engaging in commerce during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, I can’t find anything that specifically says it is forbidden. Anything, that is, besides common sense! There are plenty of examples of liturgical law which do very clearly forbid that anything be added to the Mass on one’s own authority. Common sense again says that this would apply!

In my humble opinion, I think that this is most definitely something that needs to be brought to the attention of the local bishop (which you’ve already said, but I just wanted to add that)

:sad_yes:

 

[jmcrae]

Buying and selling on Sundays is forbidden by the second Precept of the Church, is it not?

 

[LilyM]

Buying and selling on Sundays is forbidden by the second Precept of the Church, is it not?

Unnecessary servile labour is forbidden, which doesn’t mean a blanket ban on all commerce, although of course unnecessary commerce can be the cause of the unnecessary servile labour and so should also be avoided.

In any event I’d imagine selling to raise funds for charitable purposes rather than solely for commercial gain would be fine.

 

[marietta]

But he’s not selling it to make a profit - such is not his intent.

Your argument is like saying that raising money for a church building fund (say for a church in a poor community in the third world) during Mass is bad because as a consequence builders will make money out of doing the work.

He is selling to make a profit to ostensibly turn the monies over to a third party. An accounting of those funds is called for.

In 1966, the Catholic church I attended in northern Virginia asked the children to bring a portion of their allowances to church to add to funds being raised to build a new playground. Weeks and months went by, and the kids were all full of dreams of swings and slides and a merry-go-round. That September, the church used the monies to pave the parking lot.

An accounting of the funds is in order.

marietta

 

[DrWeed]

Hey thanks very much for the replies so far (I had no idea there’d be this many this fast), and thanks Father David (I assume from your screen name that you’re a priest) for bringing those canons to my attention. I also discovered that the 7th century Council of Trullo explicitly banned buying and selling in church, but I don’t think the western bishops ever accepted the results of the council.

Just to clarify a few points:

• We have a very large church hall and equally big rectory next door. I have absolutely no problem with them doing fundraising down there. Our priest said he wouldn’t use them because the merchandise simply won’t sell down there and because the hall is not wheelchair-accessible (I think we have only one wheelchair-bound parishioner anyway). I think the rectory is accessible though.
• I used to date a member of the particular ethnic group benefitting from the merchandise, so it’s not like I’m against that particular charity. I’m also personally very big on social justice issues (Archbishop Romero was one of the first heroes that drew me to the church) and am not as knowledgeable or personally offended by liturgical problems as some other Catholics. There’s a time and a place for every good purpose though.
• To LilyM - what makes this different from ordinary fundraising is that 1) buying and selling is going on instead of donations; 2) like any commercial display in any shopping mall, this was meant to tempt parishioners into parting with very large sums of money because of the sight of the goods themselves, not for the benefit of the poor; like any other crass commercialism, its drawing power was avarice, not thoughts of social justice; 3) the priest and parishioners may look at it as a charitable purpose, but from the point of view of the recipients who made the artwork, it’s definitely for commercial gain. They’re making a personal profit from it. Once we let one group of relatively poor people use the Mass as a means to make a living, there’s no reason others cannot. Why not bring in homeless people to walk up and down the aisle selling cotton candy like carnival workers, or orphans to shine the parishioners’ shoes in the pews? The problem is not with the end result, but with the means to get there. “Do not do evil so that good may result.”
• I’m certain the intentions of this priest were quite honorable. In the short time I have been a Catholic I have seen priests and nuns get away with some terrible abuses - telling people it’s OK to have abortions, teaching RCIA classes that women ought to be priests, canon lawyers publicly posting people’s confessions, etc. This guy is one of the few I’ve met with some character. I like him personally. The problem is that he’s a flake, to put it as mildly as I can. He has no critical thinking skills at all. He’s one of those dainty, ultra-politically correct guys who goes out of his way to make sure people eat 99% lean beef and don’t contribute to global warming, instead of mentioning important pastoral matters regarding mortal sin, like birth control.

Since I rather like this priest and he is an asset to the church in many ways (plus the fact that I’d rather solve things like this privately if at all possible rather than stirring trouble, as the Bible says) I may go speak to him one more time. Maybe I’ll bring him some of the comments from this forum, unless anyone has any objections, since they’re basically anonymous.

I’m wondering whether or not I ought to write to the staff of Cardinal Arinze in the Vatican’s office on liturgy for an explicit ruling on whether or not this is permitted, without mentioning the name of the parish or priest…? Any thoughts on that idea? Knowing my priest, he would change his mind in a hurry if I brought him a letter from a higher authority like that - and if he didn’t, I could then contact the bishop. Unfortunately, my bishop is notorious for much worse misbehavior, like sheltering well-known heretic theologians and marching behind effigies of “Christa,” so he is unlikely to act in any event. I’d rather just let this go, but I feel like it is my responsibility to do what I can though and at least go through the motions of trying to prevent it from happening again.

Thanks for all the feedback. Ten heads are better than one, and I like to think things through a lot before taking any action that might get others in trouble.

– Steve

P.S. I spoke about this incident with some non-Christians and a few Protesants and they all thought it was distasteful. Regardless of whether or not it is bad, it makes our church look bad…

 

[Ruthie]

My beloved parish priest is also a very kind-hearted, slightly flaky man. (Like me, he has ADD.) He *loves *to help people, and is heart-full of generosity.

But the greater majority of fundraisers - including a for-profit outfit that may be the same one as the OP saw - take place just outside the church, right by the entrances. You can’t leave without knowing they are there! Father also mentions them at the end of the Mass. If it rains, they may come inside the one vestibule, which is downstairs from the church proper.

Maybe you could suggest that to your priest. He may not have thought of it. Of course, if you’re in rainy country, that might not be an option.

Yes, we have a hall downstairs, and it’s quite true that they wouldn’t make nearly as much money if they were down there. The only fund-raisers we have down there are dinners, well-announced in advance. And the Big Dinner and auction at our summer festival is in the parking lot under a tent.

I agree that having them in back of the pews is, to say the least, not spiritual. I’m one of those who kneels to pray after Mass is finished. There is enough noise just with people leaving; I can’t imagine what it would be like to hear “That will be $11.95” disturbing my meditations!

By the way, I spent quite a bit on those wooden figurines and such.

God bless us all, and keep our churches reverent,

Ruthie