Using other people's wireless networks

[lucybeebee]

The signals from my neighbor’s wireless network reach my house and sometimes I use it for my laptop. Some people tell me that this is okay, but I’m feeling uneasy about it. Is it a sin?

 

[StCsDavid]

If your neighbors didn’t want others using their network they would have set it up with a feature that requires a password to be able access it. You’re not stealing if that’s what you are worried about. I liken it to your neighbor watering their lawn with a sprinkler and some of the water from their sprinkler falls onto your property. Your lawn gets the benefit of that water, but you didn’t steal it. In a like way, their wireless signal is spilling over into your airspace.

Now, if they did have it password protected and you stole their password so you could use it, then it becomes a problem. Or if you took advantage of their signal to hack into their computer, then that’s sinful.

 

[michaeljking]

My wifes laptop auto connects to whatever signal is strongest so sometimes we accidentally use other peoples connection. You can change the settings so that it is not in the “roaming” access mode and tie it to your own connection only.

Here In England there is one example of someone being convicted after using other peoples wireless broadband, though he was driving around and parking in front of houses and accessing questionable content.

The problem is that we are accountable for what we download at our Ip number/address and also for what other people download using our connection.

If possible the best thing you could do would be to let your neighbor’s know about how to secure their home network, maybe making it invisible as well.

 

[kettle]

Not everyone understands that a wireless network needs to be secured, so you can’t just assume that your neighbors are “ok” with you using theirs. Furthermore, it is theft. You are using a service they are paying for, without their consent or their knowledge.

The right thing to do is to stop using their network without their consent or knowledge, and then let them know their network is unsecure.

 

[SeekerJen]

Not everyone understands that a wireless network needs to be secured, so you can’t just assume that your neighbors are “ok” with you using theirs. Furthermore, it is theft. You are using a service they are paying for, without their consent or their knowledge.

The right thing to do is to stop using their network without their consent or knowledge, and then let them know their network is unsecure.

Agreed. IMO the only reason that people leave their networks unsecured is that they don’t know what can happen if they don’t. We keep ours secured because we don’t want people freeloading off of what we pay good money to have, don’t want them hogging our bandwidth, don’t want to be arrested because cops have tracked kiddie porn downloads to an IP address coming out of our router when it turns out that the accessing computer was in a neighbor’s house or someone parked outside on a laptop.

Pay for your own internet service or go to a public place that offers free wireless. Don’t steal your neighbors’ goods.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

The signals from my neighbor’s wireless network reach my house and sometimes I use it for my laptop. Some people tell me that this is okay, but I’m feeling uneasy about it. Is it a sin?

Technically it is illegal (federal and probably most states). Of course it also comes down to intent and actual usage of it. If you are doing malicious acts (e.g. running spambots or downloading porn or other illegal activity) it is a now brainier.

Otherwise I would ask your neighbor if you could use it. WiFi routers come with no default security settings on. Not everyone is technical enough to know about it to turn it on.

As long as all parities agree on a usage policy, then the laws really do not matter.

 

[AHapka]

If your neighbors didn’t want others using their network they would have set it up with a feature that requires a password to be able access it. You’re not stealing if that’s what you are worried about.

If your neighbor left his keys in his car, would you take it out for a spin whenever you wanted under that same theory?

Just because something is easier to get to does not make it stealing. A service is being used which was not paid for.

If the OP is feeling uneasy about it, it’s for a reason. It’s wrong. I would personally think it’s a venial matter at this point, but that’s best addressed by a Priest during confession.

Andy

 

[newbetx]

OK. So if it is stealing, what are we stealing? (notice I did not say if it were legal)

The internet is paid for by both governmental and private concerns. If you pay for part of that bandwidth, either by taxes or through a service provider, then obtaining it and using it within reasonable bounds does not sound to me like stealing.

If you are freeloading, that might be akin to taking food from the resturant without paying.

Access is an interesting discussion. Many places provide free access as an enticement for you to buy or use their product. I bet there’s been a thread on that I need to go find.

Others charge for access. Like a tollway. You pay as you go. By using the neighbors “free” access, in a proper way, I don’t see it as stealing… but there may be good arguments to the contrary. If there is, I’ll change my story (and habits).

Proper use… what would that be? Well, you wouldn’t access their computers without express permission. You wouldn’t use the connections for ANY malicious activity. And you wouldn’t consume so much of it that other’s would be inconvenienced. Make sense?

Now comes the argument that “access” is only granted to the home/user that the bill is paid by… while that may be in the license aggreement (does anyone but lawyers read those?), that would imply that if any of your friends come over, they could not use the service on their laptop because they didn’t pay for it. Sticky, sticky.

Remember when (well, maybe most here are not that old) when you were little and out playing… and you were thirsty? You’d go up to a house and take a drink from the tap? No one got mad. It was just shared. Now one could say water is required for life and internet access is not. True, but we could have gone home for water or brought some with us.

So hopefully, I’ve not muddied things up too much, here…

 

[CuriousInIL]

I liken it to your neighbor watering their lawn with a sprinkler and some of the water from their sprinkler falls onto your property. Your lawn gets the benefit of that water, but you didn’t steal it. In a like way, their wireless signal is spilling over into your airspace.

No, its more like moving the sprinkler onto your lawn and saying well if they didn’t want that they would have made the hose shorter.

Also, I think some folks are looking at the wrong party that is suffering from the “stealing.” Here, we pay different amounts (or are at least supposed to pay different amounts) depending upon the number of computers with access to the network (just like the cable bill depends on the number of TVs). So it is not so much that the neighbor is losing something (perhaps some speed and as another said is being exposed to the possibility of legal investigation depending upon the use of the network) but that the provider is not being correctly compensated for that access and may also be losing the revenue of you as a customer if the neighbor’s network access convinces you not to get access for your house.

 

[StCsDavid]

If your neighbor left his keys in his car, would you take it out for a spin whenever you wanted under that same theory?

Just because something is easier to get to does not make it stealing. A service is being used which was not paid for.

If the OP is feeling uneasy about it, it’s for a reason. It’s wrong. I would personally think it’s a venial matter at this point, but that’s best addressed by a Priest during confession.

Andy

That’s hardly the same theory as it would require me to go to my neighbors house and take the car out of his driveway. In this case the neighbor is imposing his signal upon my space.

What if the same neighbor had an apple tree where a few branches of that tree hung over my fence. Are you saying it would be stealing if I picked up the apples that fell onto my side of the fence just because my neighbor didn’t explicitly state that I could have them. The neighbor paid for that apple tree; paid for it’s up keep; paid for the property where it’s planted, but some of its limbs are hanging over my property. How is that different than said neighbor broadcasting his Internet signal into my home?

I do agree that if anyone is being robbed, it’s probably the ISP. I also may be less sensitive to this issue as I live in Portland Oregon where free wireless Internet is paid for by the City of Portland and thousands of local businesses so it’s hard to go anywhere and not have free access. Wireless access is nearly as common as the air we breathe in these parts.

 

[kettle]

How about you just do the right thing? If your neighbor doesn’t know their network is unsecured, then tell them. If you don’t have permission to use their network, then don’t use it.

It amuses me greatly that so many will get torqued over holding hands during the Our Father, but some have no problem with being sneaky and deceitful to use something that isn’t theirs to use.

 

[StCsDavid]

How about you just do the right thing? If your neighbor doesn’t know their network is unsecured, then tell them. If you don’t have permission to use their network, then don’t use it.

It amuses me greatly that so many will get torqued over holding hands during the Our Father, but some have no problem with being sneaky and deceitful to use something that isn’t theirs to use.

That’s probably the best advice I’ve seen on this thread so far. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.