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ralphinal
Guest
Some non-Christians have claimed that the writings of Paul that we use have been corrupted and should not be taken as scripture. Without addressing this claim, can you defend your faith without quoting Paul?
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hamba2han
Guest
The Muslim position is that the writings of Paul should NOT be taken as scripture, regardless of whether they have been corrupted or not.
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ralphinal
Guest
And that is the point of this thread. Catholics can defend their faith without quoting Paul. I want to see how non-Catholic Christians feel about it.
I am still unsure as to why Paul is problematic to Muslims. I have seen all of the posts about it, and looked at various websites, so there is no need to go over all of it again. To me the biggest theological issues are that Paul teaches that Jesus is God and that he died on the Cross.
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inJESUS
Guest
so why did Allah quote Paul?
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I agree with hamba2han.
We see Paul had animosity towards towards Jesus, and because of that, also with Mary, and further because of that, the twelve Apostels.
It is for this that we think Paul is a none-entity. We should understand Jesus and his teachings from his own words.
Another difficulty is that as we understand even the four Gospels have been tailored or edited by Paul and his associates.
The only solution is we should rely what has been narrated by Quran.
Quran respectes Jesus, Mary and the Apostels. There is no word of disrespect or hatred about them in Quran.
That is what I believe; I have read both Quran and Bible; one may however differ with my views.
Thanks
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Reuben_J
Guest
Maybe it is what Paul has got to say? You know, like false prophet or the angel of light.
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Reuben_J
Guest
An oversight my friend. Thought it was not Paul. You know, Allah can be funny sometimes.
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Reuben_J
Guest
ralphinal, even before you could start with the discussion, I see that you’ve been checked mate. There is no way where you can win this one.
You even haven’t started on what to defend yet.
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Reuben_J
Guest
Alright. Seriously now. Paul animosity towards Jesus had been repented. It is the best example of repentance that one can know of. Paul repented from being anti Christ to become one of the most fervent disciples of Christ. If Muslims consider repentance a good thing, then you should appreciate Paul.
Subsequent event showed that Paul actually worked together with the apostles in proclaiming Jesus to the world. So it not true that he continued his animosity towards the blessed Mother and the other disciples. Can you find any record to back your claim?
Christianity is a religion of apostolic witnesses and traditions. They were witnesses of Jesus, lived with him and taught by him. Thus what they preached were words of Jesus himself.
You really at least should find evidence to show that this happened. What were the words edited and what were the new words inserted.
Muslims seem to contradict Mohammad and the Quran on this because neither says that the Gospels are corrupted.
This is a non-starter. What evidence is there that the words of the Quran are from God?
You don’t seem to respect the apostles by the way you mispell the word apostles.
Anyway, from Christians’ viewpoint, the Quran blasphemes against Jesus by denying his divinity.
God bless.
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
Paul said nothing that disagreed with Jesus.
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East_Anglican
Guest
Well they would wouldn’t they?
What do they know anyway?
I have an advocate in Heaven called Jesus Christ. He is my defence.
Also, I try not to quote word for word scripture, I try to say what I believe using my words.
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East_Anglican
Guest
Why did Mohammed plaigerize some of his writings then?
Most of the good parts of the Koran are when Mohammed is trying to sound like Paul.
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East_Anglican
Guest
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
Paul would explain that Jesus was born human and isn’t God, but for his obedience was given authority of God like Moses was, making him God to the people. That’s all the Quran says. Jesus isn’t equal to God in all respects because even he had to pray for God to save his life. So we don’t worship Jesus, we worship God, but we obey Jesus as if he were God. That doesn’t blaspheme Jesus at all, it gives proper glory to both Jesus and God.
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East_Anglican
Guest
No, Paul would say
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
(Romans 9:5)
and
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to say No to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self- controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope— the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. (Titus 2:11-14)
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
Or…
Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
JESUS IS BLESSED BY GOD, NOT GOD
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God toward man, our Saviour, appeared
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he (GOD) saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he (GOD) shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
THERE IS ONE GOD, AND THEN ANOTHER, JESUS CHRIST WHO IS SENT AS GOD’S LOVE OF MAN
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I think Paul is not mentioned in Quran. If so, please give a quotation from Quran.
Thanks
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East_Anglican
Guest
No! No! No!
DO NOT CHANGE THE WORD.
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
(Romans 9:5)
CHRIST IS GOD OVER ALL, FOREVER PRAISED!
and
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to say No to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self- controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope— the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. (Titus 2:11-14)
CHRIST IS OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOUR!
DO NOT CHANGE THE WORD.
We never changed the word as the Koran says. Mohammed changed the word.
DO NOT CHANGE THE WORD.
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East_Anglican
Guest
No paul is not mentioned oin Koran, but Mohammed copied some of Pauls writing styles so he could change what God originally said.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Kindly name the Apostels he worked with, may be for a shortwhile he worked with one or two.
I understand that the Apostels, due to Paul’s weird ideas, called him in Jerusalem, he knew what be in the offing; he promised but never went there to actually meet them, on one pretext or the other.
As for the Mother Mary, he never mentioned anything about her, though she must have lived long, but he never cared for her…
Kindly correct me if I am wrong with references if possible.
I love Jesus , Mary and the Apostels ( mentioned in Quran).
Thanks
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