Using self defence against a pregnant woman?

[levi86]

If one was to be violently attacked by a women they new was pregnant could they morally use deadly force against that women?

My personal opinion is that lethal self defence would not be acceptable, as it would place the value of the victim’s life above that of the unborn child.

Any thoughts?

 

[teachccd]

If one was to be violently attacked by a women they new was pregnant could they morally use deadly force against that women?

My personal opinion is that lethal self defence would not be acceptable, as it would place the value of the victim’s life above that of the unborn child.

Any thoughts?

In my opinion, you could use whatever counterforce that would be deemed necessary for self preservation. First off, the culpability lies in the attacker and should the baby die in the self defense, it would be the direct result of the attackers actions. In other words, your intent is to save your life not to end the baby’s life. As long as the counterforce was no more than what is necessary to sustain your life, you’ve comitted no sin. That’s only my :twocents:

 

[Iowa_Mike]

If your out of options e.g. you can’t flee, you can’t hide or barricade yourself in someplace until the storm passes then I think selft defense is completely normal and acceptable. The onus is on the attacker.

I hope I never find myself in such a circumstance though.

Iowa Mike

 

[JimG]

Pregnant women may get a little emotive, but I’ve not seen one get violent!

 

[wjp984]

Exactly how are you supposed to know the difference between a fat person and a pregnant person? If the woman tells you she is then give her fair warning to back off. If she attacks and still is threatning your life then what more can you do?

 

[FightingFat]

If one was to be violently attacked by a women they new was pregnant could they morally use deadly force against that women?

My personal opinion is that lethal self defence would not be acceptable, as it would place the value of the victim’s life above that of the unborn child.

Any thoughts?

I would be very wary that you could use lethal self defence ever!

 

[Mintaka]

You just evade her for five minutes, because then she has to give up and run to the bathroom.

 

[teachccd]

I would be very wary that you could use lethal self defence ever!

You can if someone’s pure intent is to kill you!

 

[franksv]

You can if someone’s pure intent is to kill you!

If you can use “deadly force”,why could’nt you just pop her in the nose instead and run off?Hows a pregnant women going to catch you if your in the kinda shape it takes to be a lethal weapon?

 

[0kogipan]

Self defense does not always necessarily mean deadly force. Deadly force is always meant to be an absolute last resort. It is always encouraged to first disable or hold the attacker, if possible, so that they can not harm you. Maybe while you have them down, and are waiting for the authorities to come take of the situation, try to talk sense into them. Also, keep in mind, that there is fear on both sides of the situation. Introductory college level psychology classes will tell you that most people do not threaten with a gun or other weapon unless they have something to fear.

 

[bilop]

Self defense does not always necessarily mean deadly force. Deadly force is always meant to be an absolute last resort. It is always encouraged to first disable or hold the attacker, if possible, so that they can not harm you. Maybe while you have them down, and are waiting for the authorities to come take of the situation, try to talk sense into them. Also, keep in mind, that there is fear on both sides of the situation. Introductory college level psychology classes will tell you that most people do not threaten with a gun or other weapon unless they have something to fear.

Most people don’t threaten with a weapon, period.

Those that do are more likely to be insane, or evil, than afraid.

If a person is attacking you with lethal force (gun, knife etc.), and you have the ability to respond with lethal force, you would be foolish to attempt to “disable” or “hold” them.
Any self-defense instruction would teach that if you are attacked with potentially deadly force (or if you see someone else so attacked) you respond with maximum force.

e.g. If someone is attacking you or someone else with an axe, and you have a gun, you shoot at the center of their body mass (for greatest accuracy) and keep shooting until they are incapable of continuing the attack.

This is completely morally justified. The blame lies with the attacker. Especially if a third party is being threatened, it would be imoral not to respond with maximum force, thereby risking their life.

 

[teachccd]

If you can use “deadly force”,why could’nt you just pop her in the nose instead and run off?Hows a pregnant women going to catch you if your in the kinda shape it takes to be a lethal weapon?

If you’ve read my previous posts you would have seen that I said that when attacked you are allowed to use equal counterforce. So if she is viciously attacking you with a butcher knife a “pop her in the nose” may not be adequate to subdue her. Of course anything that can be done to minimalize physical harm should be attempted i.e. holding her down. But if she is larger, has a weapon and is relentless in her intent to kill you and this results in her death then I believe that your self preservation is justified and the death of the baby resulted from her actions not yours.

Note: The OP did not say that she was nine months pregnant. She could be three months along and in great fighting shape.

 

[littleone]

You just evade her for five minutes, because then she has to give up and run to the bathroom.

WellI can live with that, although on one occasion a man came up to me hit me on the cheek I turned my head walked away and never een had another response from him,

 

[franksv]

If you’ve read my previous posts you would have seen that I said that when attacked you are allowed to use equal counterforce. So if she is viciously attacking you with a butcher knife a “pop her in the nose” may not be adequate to subdue her. Of course anything that can be done to minimalize physical harm should be attempted i.e. holding her down. But if she is larger, has a weapon and is relentless in her intent to kill you and this results in her death then I believe that your self preservation is justified and the death of the baby resulted from her actions not yours.

Note: The OP did not say that she was nine months pregnant. She could be three months along and in great fighting shape.

Oh,I guess I stand corrected.Lots of what ifs here.

 

[teachccd]

Oh,I guess I stand corrected.Lots of what ifs here.

LOL! Interesting thread,isn’t it? I guess when you’re stuck home with the flu you get sucked into these interesting topics.

 

[franksv]

LOL! Interesting thread,isn’t it? I guess when you’re stuck home with the flu you get sucked into these interesting topics.

Yep,is’nt the web wonderful?

 

[Black_Jaque]

I suppose if I lived in a war-torn area (Like Iraq) I might appreciate the value in hashing out this potential moral dilemna ahead of time. However, at the moment I just can’t see putting the effort into it.

 

[0kogipan]

Yes, you do get into interesting conversations on the web when it’s your day off and it’s snowing real pretty. It’s also good to think some of these topics through ahead of time in case, out of the blue, you find yourself being attacked by a pregnant woman. At least you may not be questioning your response afterward should you survive (and I hope you would) . And any theoretical situation has a lot of what ifs.

I figure one might actually have a somewhat better chance against a pregnant woman versus one who is not. I have a small amount of experience in three different martial arts and they all seem to have some focus on knowing your center of gravity. I have not been pregnant yet but I get the impression that a sudden swelling of one side of body, such as is the case with pregnancy, there is likely to be a change in the center of balance. If she has not adjusted to this, the pregnant woman might be little clumsy in this situation and therefore a little easier to deal with. I could be wrong here though.

 

[franksv]

Its pointless to talk about what you would or would’nt do in these situations.I figure there are 3 factors,one is physical prowess,two is martial skill & exp and three is the fact that some folks are just born natural fighters.

Some guys would just freeze,some guys would subdue and then proceed to maim or kill and others would use just enough force to get away as soon as possible(fight and or flight).Unless you really know yourself,its tough to say what you would or would not do,let alone to even think you are capable of deadly force.

No one knows for sure how they would react,unless its happened to you,or you have exp with violence,or your name is Chuck Norris.

 

[jc-servant]

I suppose if I lived in a war-torn area (Like Iraq) I might appreciate the value in hashing out this potential moral dilemna ahead of time. However, at the moment I just can’t see putting the effort into it.

I hope the situation never comes up for you.

Similar questions get asked during police candidate interviews and during the academy. We also had to physically go through scenarios which included things like a pregnant attacker. A child or pregnant woman can shoot you just as dead as an adult male (and some officers have paid the price for hesitating). It is not as farfetched as it might sound initially.

I believe it is prudent for all people to look inside themselves in advance of an emergency and really think about what they are capable of doing or would never do in order to defend themselves or another person. We probably have more guns per person in the US than they do in Iraq, so an unarmed conflict can turn deadly pretty quickly. I believe it helps us not to freeze in an emergency when we have done some advance thinking/training about a subject.

I personally had to arrest a very pregnant woman from a traffic stop. Sad situation having to take down a pregnant woman, but luckily she didn’t try to use a weapon while fighting me. I also arrested a female burglar who appeared pregnant and did have a weapon, but it turned out she had delivered earlier that same week. We did have to draw down on her, but she dropped the tire iron. It turned out she was coerced into the crime by her horrible boyfriend.