Using terminology "limitations and weaknesses" instead of "sins"

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Brendan_64

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If before the Penitential Act at Mass, instead of saying “let us acknowledge our sins”, the priest uses the terms “limitations and weaknesses” instead of sins, apart from this being a case of ad-libbing (and possibly a minor liturgical abuse because of that) is this terminology (limitations and weaknesses, as opposed to sins) theologically correct?

To me, referring to sins as limitations and weaknesses would seem to downplay the nature of sin, and in particular our own responsibility and culpability for the sins we commit.

Does anyone here have any knowledge on this that they can share with me, and is there anything in our Church teaching, or instruction, that could help clarify this?
 
Brendan_64 said:
If before the Penitential Act at Mass, instead of saying “let us acknowledge our sins”, the priest uses the terms “limitations and weaknesses” instead of sins, apart from this being a case of ad-libbing (and possibly a minor liturgical abuse because of that) is this terminology (limitations and weaknesses, as opposed to sins) theologically correct?

To me, referring to sins as limitations and weaknesses would seem to downplay the nature of sin, and in particular our own responsibility and culpability for the sins we commit.

Does anyone here have any knowledge on this that they can share with me, and is there anything in our Church teaching, or instruction, that could help clarify this?
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Limitations are just that - if I am unable to do something, it is one of my limitations. My weaknesses can lead me to sin. In themselves, weaknesses are not sins. So, of course, this terminology is NOT theologically correct!
 
Just a thought from my lay persons thinking. The inclination to sin is a natural part of being human, so I don’t think this is off the mark. I think of Ash Wednesday and in Lent when we reflect on our human realities in order to turn to the Lord for strength, hope and guidance. We are supposed to remain strong in the Lord, so to say we have limitations and weaknesses would indicate that we are weak in our human nature and we’re not supposed to rest on our own power we are supposed to rest on the power of the Christ, So weakness is being away from the Lords grace so in the mass we’re supposed to leave that behind which includes our sinful nature and live in the spirit of God. Gods grace is limitless but we are limited in our finite realities.

St. Paul says… 2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

We acknowledge our sins at the beginning of mass, as well. I wonder if this is part of it as part of the penitential rite.

All say:

I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,
And, striking their breast, they say:

through my fault,
through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.

🤷🙂
 
Brendan_64 said:
To me, referring to sins as limitations and weaknesses would seem to downplay the nature of sin, and in particular our own responsibility and culpability for the sins we commit.

Does anyone here have any knowledge on this that they can share with me, and is there anything in our Church teaching, or instruction, that could help clarify this?
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I agree completely. And no, I don’t believe this phrasing is theologically correct.
 
No these are not theologically interchangeable.

I don’t have access to my notes, but the two most common terms translated as “sin” mean to miss the mark, to not have a share in, to take the wrong path, to violate God’s law etc.
These things do not speak to limitations but to decisions. Weaknesses might play into this…but no they are not interchangeable

Peace
James
 
No they are not the same. This further waters down the faith by removing the concept that sin is about turning away from God.

We just had a parish lenten mission about the 7 deadly sin and virtues to combat those sins. The priest talked alot about how we as a society no longer sin, we just have “issues”. John Doe didn’t commit adultery, but rather he has sexual boundary issues. Mary Jane didn’t gossip, she has issues with respecting other’s privacy. As he said, to overcome sin we must first own that we chose to sin. Issues, weakness, etc. imply that we are not really culpable for what happens, but rather victims of things we cannot control.
 
Brendan_64 said:
To me, referring to sins as limitations and weaknesses would seem to downplay the nature of sin, and in particular our own responsibility and culpability for the sins we commit.
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Joan_M said:
Limitations are just that - if I am unable to do something, it is one of my limitations. My weaknesses can lead me to sin. In themselves, weaknesses are not sins. So, of course, this terminology is NOT theologically correct!
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JRKH said:
No these are not theologically interchangeable.
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Agreed.
 
Usige said:
No they are not the same. This further waters down the faith by removing the concept that sin is about turning away from God.

We just had a parish lenten mission about the 7 deadly sin and virtues to combat those sins. The priest talked alot about how we as a society no longer sin, we just have “issues”. John Doe didn’t commit adultery, but rather he has sexual boundary issues. Mary Jane didn’t gossip, she has issues with respecting other’s privacy. As he said, to overcome sin we must first own that we chose to sin. Issues, weakness, etc. imply that we are not really culpable for what happens, but rather victims of things we cannot control.
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I agree with how our culture has become too sensitive. I think sometimes it is easier to swallow when you accept you have issues, not sins. It is hard to think of yourself as a fornicator. I am not sure how well I would take it if someone addressed me by all of my sins. I do not agree with watering down, but in some cases it may be more charitable. That is just my opinion.
 
Brendan_64 said:
If before the Penitential Act at Mass, instead of saying “let us acknowledge our sins”, the priest uses the terms “limitations and weaknesses” instead of sins, apart from this being a case of ad-libbing (and possibly a minor liturgical abuse because of that) is this terminology (limitations and weaknesses, as opposed to sins) theologically correct?

To me, referring to sins as limitations and weaknesses would seem to downplay the nature of sin, and in particular our own responsibility and culpability for the sins we commit.

Does anyone here have any knowledge on this that they can share with me, and is there anything in our Church teaching, or instruction, that could help clarify this?
Click to expand...
The sources of sin are ignorance, passion, and malice. It is only through the Holy Spirit that we can overcome these.

The Catechism has:1851 It is precisely in the Passion, when the mercy of Christ is about to vanquish it, that sin most clearly manifests its violence and its many forms:
  • unbelief,
  • murderous hatred,
  • shunning and mockery by the leaders and the people,
  • Pilate’s cowardice and
  • the cruelty of the soldiers,
  • Judas’ betrayal - so bitter to Jesus,
  • Peter’s denial and
  • the disciples’ flight.
However, at the very hour of darkness, the hour of the prince of this world,126 the sacrifice of Christ secretly becomes the source from which the forgiveness of our sins will pour forth inexhaustibly.
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
 
Chatter163 said:
Great rejoinder! 👍
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it is because we have human limitations that we have a inclination to sin, so it is so far from the truth? The divine mercy is all about us knowing that we can’t survive or be brought to heaven without the mercy of God… I heard the other day on Catholic radio that the mercy of God as the people of the OT understood it was that God loved them despite what they did to bring themselves away from God, ie, make idols of clay… we not only want to acknowledge our sins, but the need for God in our lives… .Hey??
 
Karen107 said:
it is because we have human limitations that we have a inclination to sin, so it is so far from the truth?
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Is that the case though? Surely a limitation is something beyond our own control, something we have no control over? Surely sin is as a result of our exercising our free will? We choose to sin and we are completely responsible for the sins we commit? If our sins arise as a result of our limitations as human being, then how can we be completely responsible as we cannot control limitations placed.upon us? And who would be responsible for such limitations? Surely that would be whoever made us like thus? So would that make God in some way responsible for sins that we commit as a result of our human limitations?

No, we do not sin because of our limitations, we sin because we choose to abuse God’s gift of free will and use this to turn our backs on God.
 
The whole concept of the Penitential Act doesn’t make any sense without sin. Limitations and weaknesses are part of being being human. We might as well be asking God to forgive us for being human beings, which actually puts the blame on Him for making us this way.
 
Brendan_64 said:
Is that the case though? Surely a limitation is something beyond our own control, something we have no control over? .
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Now you see Gods mercy for we have acknowledged our limitations and weaknesses and so apart from God we are nothing, and we become sinful, with God we are brought to eternal life. However it is because of our weaknesses and limitations we are made strong in the Lord and we should always remember that we are dust and to dust we shall return, and so not think more of ourselves and our abilities than we should.

1 Corinthians 2: 7-10 Because of the extravagance of those revelations, and so I wouldn’t get a big head, I was given the gift of a handicap to keep me in constant touch with my limitations. Satan’s angel did his best to get me down; what he in fact did was push me to my knees. No danger then of walking around high and mighty! At first I didn’t think of it as a gift, and begged God to remove it. Three times I did that, and then he told me,

My grace is enough; it’s all you need.
My strength comes into its own in your weakness

Yes we do have control over our actions that’s why we pray the penitential rite but what this Priest said came before the penitential rite.

All: I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do;
through my fault
through my fault
through my most grievous fault
Therefore, I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.

But that doesn’t mean we don’t need to turn to God to help us become more holy and faithful, and why we need to pray this rite…

The poster did not say they didn’t pray the rite and really we don’t know what else the priest said. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. For I’m not quick to make judgments on what someone said. I’ve heard my own priest use that terminology I’m nost sure where but I heard it before and it made me stop and think.

If I am wrong so I am wrong. I’m just looking at this from another perspective. 🤷
 
To me, it’s about one or the other but rather both and.

Acknowledgement of our weaknesses and limitations is important because, once we are aware of them then we can proceed to confront them, not allowing them to dominate u and work towards overcoming them. At the same time however, it’s also important to acknowledge our failings (or sins) - in the words of the confiteor: “what I have done and what I have failed to do” because it is our actions and omissions, rather than our weaknesses and limitations which are the direct cause of hurt towards other and God. Granted, our weaknesses and limitation do contribute to our wrongdoing but they are not the direct cause.
 
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