Vacation home and Gay Niece

[BasiaGirl]

Okay, here’s my question. I have a gay niece who has a 10 year old son (through artificial insemination). My husband and I are the son’s godparents, and we have been paying for his Catholic schooling (I know–how did we get a priest to baptize the child of a gay mother?–this is California). At any rate, my niece is the most stubborn person in the universe, but she very much looks up to me and my husband. She wanted us to be her son’s godparents when he was baptized at 5 years of age. We agreed because we felt that being his godparents and sending him to Catholic school was the best we could do to give him a chance at knowing Jesus and the Church.
My niece is presently living with a partner (who also has a 10 year old son). I have told her that being a homosexual is not a sin, but that any sexual activity other than that between a validly married man and woman is a mortal sin. This is her third relationship, and every time she gets into a new relationship, I remind her of the Church’s stance. She always says, “I know, I know… You don’t have to tell me every time.” One time, she asked me if I would go to her wedding if gay marriage passed in California (fortunately it didn’t.). I told her I couldn’t go because I have no right to change the Bible and the Church’s teaching, and that I will never put anything in the way of my communion with the Church. So she knows absolutely where I stand.
My question is this: my husband and I are thinking about getting a small cabin in the mountains as a family vacation home. We were unable to have children, and we thought it would be nice to have a place for our siblings, nieces, and nephews to go to for a few days here and there. I’d love for my godson and the other boy to stay at the mountains some times. Would it be a sin if we let my niece stay up because her partner would being going to? I want the boys to have fun and they really like us, and I’m hoping that by sharing our stuff, these boys might witness a husband and wife who are examples of love and sharing so they might come to love the Christ we love. I feel if I say to my niece, “You can’t stay at the cabin because I don’t approve of any sexual aspect of your relationship and you might do something illicit under the roof of my cabin,” my niece. in her stubborness, will be angry and turn away from the whole idea of God. She already knows my stance on the sexual aspect, so I doubt they would see my allowing them to vacation in the cabin as approval of homosexual acts. Should I not get the cabin? Should I not allow them to use it? Should I tell them they can use but not to ****** while they are there? What should I do? What would the Church have me do?

 

[Edmundus1581]

Woooo… tough one - but also very common, in different guises. When do we make a stand for Christian morality? Every time, no times, or somewhere in between?

My opinion is that you have said your position, in charity, so she won’t take your allowing her to use that house as condoning her activity, so it’s OK to let them use the house as there are good reasons too.

But I would listen to other opinions.

You described the background, and the issues, very well. I’m sure you’ll work this out.

 

[Newbie2]

I’m curious about your statement: “I know–how did we get a priest to baptize the child of a gay mother?”. What bearing would the mother’s sexual orientation have on whether or not a priest baptized a child??

Anyway, yep, I see the dilemma. Perhaps you could just invite the boys for a stay there? Especially if the cabin is “too small” to have her and her partner there without them (mom and the partner) sleeping on the floor. Most kids enjoy getting a weekend or week or whatever away from mom.

I don’t see many options for dealing with the partner issue. Since she know how you feel about her relationships, it seems that she shouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t invite the partner or made it clear that they had to stay in separate rooms or if she (the partner) didn’t come at all.

From what you’ve told us, and there’s always more to the story, I don’t see how she (knowing how you and the Church stands on her relationship(s) ) would go to rejecting the “whole idea of God” from your not wanting her to do her thing under your roof. Seems to me that she’s already rejected the idea of what God wants us not to do, so I really wouldn’t worry about your being responsible for pushing her over the edge.

Perhaps the thing to do is have a frank discussion with her. Since she already knows where you stand, start there. Use the technique of using “I” and “we” instead of “you”, because really, that’s what the whole issue is about. “Look, you know how we feel about this, right? We wouldn’t feel comfortable with such a sleeping arrangement in our cabin.” Something like that.

You don’t need to give any reasons, she already knows the reasons. If she gives a care at all about your feelings, you may be pleasantly surprised. Maybe even bring up that, yes, having your partner there is a problem, so why don’t we just take the kids up there for a weekend ourselves? Most moms appreciate some “time off” from the kids.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do…and keep us posted.

 

[aicirt]

I think your plan is great. And it is SO KIND of you to extend it to not only your Godson but to the other boy as well. Kids will have a ball. And it is wonderful that they’ll be able to enjoy your husband as they both need to be around a supportive male.

Might not be able to do anything re. your niece other than pray. The boys are a different story. I’m sure the women will enjoy it too. Have a wonderful summer.

 

[sjmb]

Hi,

I’m sorry for the difficult situation of your niece’s lifestyle choices. I’m glad she at least “listens” to you by saying “I know, I know” instead of completely removing all communication with you when you talk to her. I think that is a good sign, and that you should continue to talk to her, and show her the Courage ministry.

Regarding the cabin, I like the idea of bringing the boys only. Since she already knows your stance, she will understand your choice to not let them use the cabin, I think. I think it can be compared to you having them all stay at your own house, since the cabin belongs to you. If you had the family come to stay at your house, you wouldn’t let your niece and her partner stay over because it would somewhat condone the behavior. I know these things are very difficult, but I would say to always, charitably, hold your ground. Also, since you are probably one of the only people in her life that is telling her this is wrong, I think she really needs you to be consistent on all fronts. May God will work through you to bring her back? Keep praying for her, of course.

In Christ
shmb

 

[Bookcat]

It it were me I would not let a gay couple stay together in my house -cabin (at least in the same room…and even then I am not sure it would be good in regards scandal in other rooms…not sure on that part for your kids prob already know about them and have seen them unfortunately as a couple…)…

…or even an unmarried couple…

(would you let your kid bring his girlfriend for a sleepover in his room…or a friend from work who wanted to bring his “mistress”…just don’t tell his wife?..of course not…I think this falls into the same area…)

… or a couple who was “remarried” when the first marriage was valid (and thus not annulled) or any invalid relationship…certainly not staying “as man an wife” in the same room…for it would seem to me that this would be “treating them as married” and thus approving etc…it is one thing to love and respect persons (and not throw tomatoes at them) and another to support directly an objectively sinful situation …not to mention the scandal to the children…so this is how I would judge it…

Truth in love.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. “Structures of sin” are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144

(further advice call the apologist line…or Jimmy Akin on thursday (if it is ok to broadcast your question)

 

[Seatuck]

Okay, here’s my question. I have a gay niece who has a 10 year old son (through artificial insemination). My husband and I are the son’s godparents, and we have been paying for his Catholic schooling (I know–how did we get a priest to baptize the child of a gay mother?–this is California). At any rate, my niece is the most stubborn person in the universe, but she very much looks up to me and my husband. She wanted us to be her son’s godparents when he was baptized at 5 years of age. We agreed because we felt that being his godparents and sending him to Catholic school was the best we could do to give him a chance at knowing Jesus and the Church.
My niece is presently living with a partner (who also has a 10 year old son). I have told her that being a homosexual is not a sin, but that any sexual activity other than that between a validly married man and woman is a mortal sin. This is her third relationship, and every time she gets into a new relationship, I remind her of the Church’s stance. She always says, “I know, I know… You don’t have to tell me every time.” One time, she asked me if I would go to her wedding if gay marriage passed in California (fortunately it didn’t.). I told her I couldn’t go because I have no right to change the Bible and the Church’s teaching, and that I will never put anything in the way of my communion with the Church. So she knows absolutely where I stand.
My question is this: my husband and I are thinking about getting a small cabin in the mountains as a family vacation home. We were unable to have children, and we thought it would be nice to have a place for our siblings, nieces, and nephews to go to for a few days here and there. I’d love for my godson and the other boy to stay at the mountains some times. Would it be a sin if we let my niece stay up because her partner would being going to? I want the boys to have fun and they really like us, and I’m hoping that by sharing our stuff, these boys might witness a husband and wife who are examples of love and sharing so they might come to love the Christ we love. I feel if I say to my niece, “You can’t stay at the cabin because I don’t approve of any sexual aspect of your relationship and you might do something illicit under the roof of my cabin,” my niece. in her stubborness, will be angry and turn away from the whole idea of God. She already knows my stance on the sexual aspect, so I doubt they would see my allowing them to vacation in the cabin as approval of homosexual acts. Should I not get the cabin? Should I not allow them to use it? Should I tell them they can use but not to ****** while they are there? What should I do? What would the Church have me do?

I don’t really see a problem with letting them use the cabin. Are you going to monitor others for drug, alcohol and immoral sexual behaviors?Probably not so I don’t think you have to with this niece. She knows your position. I think you have a harder issue with the day to day stuff. You could ask them to sleep separately if you are staying at the cabin at the same time , though. Since you don’t have your own impressionable children you are in a unique position of having a little more leeway as you faithfully work to have an influence on this situation.

 

[BasiaGirl]

Thanks for all the different ideas, but now I’m more confused than ever. First, my niece won’t let anyone take her son without her. Also, the boys are so full of life, and my husband and I aren’t used to this (as we were unable to have children), I can’t imagine being in charge of them for more than a few hours. Secondly, my niece is so excited about this cabin, but if I told her she couldn’t bring her partner, that would be the end of everything. I very much could see her saying, “What kind of person are you!?” They are already down on Christians (though she and her partner were both baptized Catholic as children). I should probably just not get the cabin because this whole thing would be bad either way. If I allow them to stay, I cut myself off from God; if I don’t allow them to stay, I cut myself off from being a daily influence in their lives and, hopefully, leading them back to the Church. I’m so sad.
Also, my niece and her partner are having problems (my sister thinks the relationship won’t last much longer), but if I don’t let her bring the partner, she’s so stubborn it will push her into staying with the partner to prove something.
My sister likes to think they are not intimate because they’re obese and taking Prozac (which deadens sexual feelings), plus they’re always arguing.
So I probably shouldn’t get the cabin. I don’t think it would cause scandal because they’d just be there with their kids and, unfortunately, their kids already know the situation.

 

[Bookcat]

Thanks for all the different ideas, but now I’m more confused than ever. First, my niece won’t let anyone take her son without her. Also, the boys are so full of life, and my husband and I aren’t used to this (as we were unable to have children), I can’t imagine being in charge of them for more than a few hours. Secondly, my niece is so excited about this cabin, but if I told her she couldn’t bring her partner, that would be the end of everything. I very much could see her saying, “What kind of person are you!?” They are already down on Christians (though she and her partner were both baptized Catholic as children). I should probably just not get the cabin because this whole thing would be bad either way. If I allow them to stay, I cut myself off from God; if I don’t allow them to stay, I cut myself off from being a daily influence in their lives and, hopefully, leading them back to the Church. I’m so sad.
Also, my niece and her partner are having problems (my sister thinks the relationship won’t last much longer), but if I don’t let her bring the partner, she’s so stubborn it will push her into staying with the partner to prove something.
My sister likes to think they are not intimate because they’re obese and taking Prozac (which deadens sexual feelings), plus they’re always arguing.
So I probably shouldn’t get the cabin. I don’t think it would cause scandal because they’d just be there with their kids and, unfortunately, their kids already know the situation.

Yes very difficult cross…very difficult…

but know too that many have to meet these sorts of things.

But certainly you are right in putting “following Christ” before any family…he said as much…If anyone comes to me without hating mother and father…wife and children …even his very self…he can not be my disciple (not exact quote). Of course he was using a semitic way of making the point…not that we have to literally “hate” otherwise the love one another would be out of place…so part of his point is we must love him and be faithful to him…even if this means going contrary to family friends…or even things we may want…

But of course we must do this with great prudence and love…truth in love…love without truth is not love…

we be about loving the person but following Christ and loving him first…

I myself would love to have a cabin cool…but prob never get the chance…so my wife and I just go away at times to rented cabins or park cabins…so maybe just go away to different cabins all over the place…and thus see new things etc…

Keep following Christ he is our true life and our true joy…

 

[vera_dicere]

My sister and her fiancee have been living “in sin” for lack of a better phrase, for seven years. When they come to stay with our mother, who’s a very staunch Catholic, they sleep in different beds. Perhaps you could do that? I mean, at my mum’s house there’s a King size bed, but she herself sleeps in a single because the King size bed is in a room that neigbours onto a rowdy man flat. But when my sister and her fianceee stay my mum goes into the King size bed. You could simply organise it so that neice and partner can’t logisticially sleep in the same bed - especially if you are staying with her.

I’m not sure what you can do if they go without you, but as others have said, there’s really no way you can monitor everyone’s morality if they go there.

The other thing you could do, if you could think of a way to tactfully mention it, you said that the gay relationship was a bit rocky, perhaps say to your niece that you’re concerned about her, and its important for all couples to have “time out” for a few days from each other, perhaps offer her, and only her (and her kid) “time out” at the cabin. It might not work out that way, she could see through you or her partner might take offence, but perhaps its more charitable than saying “you and youur lesbian partner are living in sin and I won’t have it in my cabin, missy”.

 

[josephdaniel29]

… or a couple who was “remarried” when the first marriage was valid (and thus not annulled) or any invalid relationship…certainly not staying “as man an wife” in the same room…for it would seem to me that this would be “treating them as married” and thus approving etc…it is one thing to love and respect persons (and not throw tomatoes at them) and another to support directly an objectively sinful situation …not to mention the scandal to the children…so this is how I would judge it…

Well if you ever invite me to spend the night I’ll make sure to bring the proper documentation to satisfy your standards.