Vacation with Jesus' Church.

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Sam_777

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I think my Muslim flesh needs some spiritual lessons away from the pressure of the Islamic Mosques, that’s why I’m planning to spend this coming August with Jesus’ Church instead of UAE where we have relatives there, so I was thinking of dropping my family there then heading west, however, I have some questions regarding the Churches:
  1. How to know to which Christian denomination a Church belongs, I mean when I pass by one, is there any sign that tells me, or shall I enter and ask inside?
  2. The spiritual lecture by the Minister, is it only on Sunday, or also on Saturday?
  3. Since my flesh is still a Muslim, can I attend that spiritual lecture without causing any problem or scandal?
  4. Can I ask the Minister questions about Christianity and Islam after the lecture, or its better to postpone it till weekdays?
  5. What other things that I must consider when attending the spiritual lecture.
:extrahappy:
 
  1. How to know to which Christian denomination a Church belongs, I mean when I pass by one, is there any sign that tells me, or shall I enter and ask inside?
Usually there will be a sign that says XYZ Methodist Church or St. XYZ Catholic Church. They usually also list their times for services.

Some churches have an office, some don’t. Some are open all the time, some will be locked except at the designated worship time.
  1. The spiritual lecture by the Minister, is it only on Sunday, or also on Saturday?
That depends on the individual church. Some may have services on Sunday and Wednesday. Some will have lectures and educational programs on other nights, not always led by the priest/minister. The priest or minister will usually give a sermon during the Sunday services.

A Catholic parish usually has a Saturday evening Mass and Sunday Masses. In most cases, the priest will give the same talk at each Mass.

Sermons might be as short as 10 minutes or as long as an hour depending on the denomination you go to.
  1. Since my flesh is still a Muslim, can I attend that spiritual lecture without causing any problem or scandal?
Of course!
  1. Can I ask the Minister questions about Christianity and Islam after the lecture, or its better to postpone it till weekdays?
I would suggest you introduce yourself, tell him you are interested in learning about Christianity, and ask to talk to him in his office on a weekday.
  1. What other things that I must consider when attending the spiritual lecture.
Well, most Christians wouldn’t call their Sunday services a “spiritual lecture”. They would call it “worship”. There will be prayers, singing, and if it’s a Catholic Church there will be a structured format, there will be Eucharist (which you should refrain from) and in some other denominations there will also be a structured format and a communion service.

Most Christians would consider a “spiritual lecture” or other educational program to be something done on another night, outside of the worship service.

Of course, being a Catholic, I would encourage you to go to a Catholic Church. 😃

Are you going somewhere in Europe or the Mediterranean? There will likely be many Catholic and Orthodox Churches in those areas, and to a lesser degree Protestant churches, depending on which country you go to. Language might also be a barrier, depending upon what languages you speak.
 
Hi Sam, I will leave it to others to answer some of your questions, but I think you can usually find the name of a demonination outside a particular church. I don’t think you’ll find we have a problem with “Muslim flesh”! That’s not how we Catholics think. You are a person to us.

In the Catholic Church there’s more to what’s occurring than the spiritual lecture (which we call a homily.) Our Saturday, Sunday, weekdays, we have what we call Mass or Eucharist, which is 'the source and summit" of our life. It begins with prayer, goes on to readings from scripture, the Bible, the priest then on Sundays and Saturday evenings gives a homily that usually lasts around ten minutes give or take, then moves towards the part of the Mass in which we commemorate the wishes of Jesus during the last supper…there’s a lot to that for us…We usually have hymns, sacred songs at weekend Masses but not usually during the week.

We finish with prayers and a blessing…usually the Mass lasts about an hour, on weekdays perhaps half that time.

I guess all kinds of things bring people to join the church…God can use any means…from the way you speak you are simply exploring possibilities. If you wished to find out more about what we believe you would probably ask the priest to guide you. As the Mass is not a lecture you wouldn’t actually stand up to ask in Church.

“The faithful are gathered by the preaching of Christ’s Gospel and the mystery of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated, ‘so that through the Body and Blood of the Lord the whole brotherhood is united…Christ is present, by whose power the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church is united. For the partaking has no less an effect than to change us into what we have received.’” [Vatican 2.9:7. Constitution of the Church, n.26] “But union with Christ…is not to be limited to the duration of the celebration of the Eucharist; it is to be prolonged into the entire Christian life…(as) a continual thanksgiving under the Holy Spirit and may produce fruits of greater charity.” [Vatican 2.9. iii. 38]

I don’t know whether your exploration is serious or passing, but who know if the following will someday apply to you…however, that is up to you and God “Now in Christ Jesus, you that used to be so very far apart from us have been brought very close, by the blood of Christ. For He is the peace between us.” [Ephesians 2:13-14]

Best wishes. May God be with you, Trishie
 
I think my Muslim flesh needs some spiritual lessons away from the pressure of the Islamic Mosques, that’s why I’m planning to spend this coming August with Jesus’ Church :extrahappy:
If you’re looking for spiritual lessons why don’t you try these useful websites where you can download talks and spiritual songs (free and legal) as well!

wordonfire.org/
americancatholictruthsociety.com/articles/sheen.htm
bringyou.to/apologetics/audio.htm
k4communications.com/karl/recordings.html
ourlifeinchrist.com/archives.htm
cegguam.org/TalksAndHomilies.htm
thecatholiccatechism.com/
franciscanyouth.com/Multimedia/
salvationisfromthejews.com/audio.html
keepthefaith.org/
sqpn.com/
catholicaudio.blogspot.com/
 
Of course, being a Catholic, I would encourage you to go to a Catholic Church.
Thank you 1ke for the detailed information, and surely I will consider the Catholic Church, since the country I’m going to has so many CC.
You are a person to us.
:hug1:
I don’t know whether your exploration is serious or passing
Serious.
Best wishes. May God be with you, Trishie
Thank you Trishie and :blessyou:.
If you’re looking for spiritual lessons why don’t you try these useful websites where you can download talks and spiritual songs (free and legal) as well!
Thank you iaskquestions for the links, there are also a lot of spiritual lectures on Christian TVs, but I need to be alone for awhile away from the pressure of our Islamic clerics and their mosques.
 
Thank you 1ke for the detailed information, and surely I will consider the Catholic Church, since the country I’m going to has so many CC.

:hug1:

Serious.

Thank you Trishie and :blessyou:.

Thank you iaskquestions for the links, there are also a lot of spiritual lectures on Christian TVs, but I need to be alone for awhile away from the pressure of our Islamic clerics and their mosques.
Dear Brother Sam,
If you are really serious about it, I will pray for you that Holy spirit will guide you to find the truth.
God bless
 
👋

:blessyou: all (Christians, Jewish, and Muslims) and see you in September.
 
Sam,

May the Heavenly Father provide you with a holy angelic host to protect you as you travel and look for a Christian Church. May the Lord Jesus Himself be your guide and go before you in power and authority. May the Archangel Michael fight any forces that will stand in your way of reaching out to God during this time. May the Holy Spirit fill you with peace and nudge you as to when and where to turn as you travel.

Blessings…

MW
 
Sam,

May the Heavenly Father provide you with a holy angelic host to protect you as you travel and look for a Christian Church. May the Lord Jesus Himself be your guide and go before you in power and authority. May the Archangel Michael fight any forces that will stand in your way of reaching out to God during this time. May the Holy Spirit fill you with peace and nudge you as to when and where to turn as you travel.

Blessings…

MW
AMEN
 
I know I’m new to these forums and I suppose to Catholicism in general, but I just wanted to say that I think this is really beautiful and inspiring to see. I really do hope that you find what you are looking for in the church, Sam. I have been some sort of Christian for all of my life, and yet reading this I can’t help but say: I should pray to one day be committed enough to spend my vacation time learning as much as I can about the Church and the Faith! That is truly awesome, and shows very much your respectable and honorable character.

God bless you, Sam. I will be praying for you as well.
 
Sam, why not move to a Catholic country where you can worship Christ without fear? For instance of course Rome, Italy and Croatia are beautiful Catholic countries. Even Spain and others, heck there are all mostly Catholic countries in the world today. 1.12 billion Catholics and a church on every corner.
 
Have a wonderful, prayerful trip, Sam. I hope you find what you’ve been searching for and i sincerely wish you all the best in your journey. :highprayer:

Lukas
 
Thank you all brothers & sisters, what a wonderful vacation I had, spending it with Lord Jesus Church and outdoor in the mountains, that really helped me concentrate and refresh myself, it started with a visit to the Church near my hotel which was a Baptist Church, I have searched the nearby area but I couldn’t find a Catholic one, I only found Protestant & Anglican Churches, so in order not to miss the first Sunday, I attended the service at that Baptist Church at 9:30am, when I entered the Church I’ve noticed that there isn’t a single cross anywhere inside the Church, and no pictures or statues of any sort!, then the service started by the Church Minister which took from him around one hour to finish, he quoted one verse from the Bible and he elaborated more on it, and there where some musical plays during that service by one group, however when I’ve finished that and while I was going out of the Church I asked one lady from that Church on where I can find a Catholic Church, and she pointed me the direction, then I headed there, and the moment I saw the Church it sparked a joy inside me, I approached it and I read the name to discover that it was even a Cathedral one, I was so happy to discover that there was another Mass to begin within 30 minutes, so I entered and attended that Mass, there was all sort of pictures, statues, and there was an alter in the middle and some confession rooms in the corner.

After I have finished the Mass, I visited the Priest office, and I spoke with the Priest assistance, and he told me its necessary to take the RCIA class in order to understand Catholicism well, but the problem that the class was due to start in September, so there was no chance for me to attend it.

So far I have learned some basic things about the Catholicism from the Masses that I have attended, which are:
  • The Sunday Missal (prayerbook & Hymnal).
  • The Entrance Antiphon.
  • The Opening prayer.
  • The Responsorial Psalm.
  • The Communion Antiphon.
  • The Eucharist.
I wish I had the chance to participate in the “Eucharist”, particularly after I discovered that its only a piece of bread and no alcohol was involved, but I was told not to do so by our fellow posters here in this forum, in addition to the advice by the Priest assistance, I understood that I only should do that when I’m ready to be baptized, and I can’t be baptized till my flesh stops being a Muslim.

Also by coincidence, I have attended a marriage ceremony on Saturday, it seems Saturday is a day for marriages in Christianity!, I was going to the Cathedral, and I saw people with neat suits and cameras inside the Cathedral, I didn’t enter in the beginning, but when I saw some other people were entering and sitting at the back, I did the same thing, that was interesting to witness such marriage in Christianity.

One of the most interesting things that I’ve discovered in the Catholic Cathedral is the holy water, that really was an interesting discovery for me, therefore on daily bases I was taking with me an empty bottle to fill it with the holy water to drink from it throughout the day, specially when I was going mountains hiking.

Moreover, there was a statue of Lord Jesus in that Catholic Cathedral, and I saw people just putting there hand under it where the flowers are and whispering something then leave!, what’s that practice?, what they say!, I myself have kissed it, and I see no reason why not, since in Islam we kiss the black stone in Kabbaa.

One thing I didn’t feel comfortable with, is where some Mass members where gathering contributions during the Mass ceremony, I don’t know if that was specific for that Cathedral or its general in all Catholic Churches!, but personally I think money contribution should be separated from the religious rituals.

I’ve discovered that there are some common rituals between Catholicism and Islam, maybe Muhammed took that from the early Christians who were in arabian peninsula at his time, the first one is kneeling like what we do in the Islamic prayers, I have witnessed three Catholics who were assisting the Priest during the Mass kneeling for few seconds during that Mass, the second common thing is the incense, I have seen them using incense in each Mass, the same thing applies at our Islamic mosques (particularly now in Ramadan).

I really felt the holiness coming from that Cathedral, and I really liked that there are daily Masses (morning & evening), however, the leaving moments were really hard for me, since I really loved that Cathedral, but what to say, that’s life, today is the first day of our Islamic fasting month (Ramadan) here in Saudi Arabia, although I’m fasting this month but all my heart and feelings are with Lord Jesus.

P.S., When I was sitting alone in the mountains, I was thinking of you fellow brothers & sisters, I was remembering our arguments on this forum, and where we agreed and disagreed, sometimes when I see how the secular world have gone astray, I tend to lean towards Islam, but when I separate the religion from it, I tend to lean towards Christianity.
 
Hi Sam,

I’m so very glad to hear you had such a wonderful time on your journey, and that you were able to experience several different denominations of Christianity. Hopefully you can see now some of the differences between the different sects of Christianity, and maybe because of that better understand why we sometimes disagree even with one another while at the same time all calling ourselves Christians.

Just a few quick comments about some specifics in your post:

You may receive the Eucharist after your confirmation into the Church, which takes place at the end of the RCIA classes that the priest told you about. Sam, I went through this process just two years ago and I will tell you honestly: it is absolutely worth the wait! I remember so many times I remained kneeling in prayer as the others went up to receive, just praying furiously that I may be able to partake in the Communion someday too. And when they day came, I was so happy! I hope that you feel that joy to the depths of your soul, my friend. It sounds like you are well on your way. 🙂

You should be told that there is also wine given during Communion. I have been told that it is not absolutely required that you partake of it (I was told this not in RCIA, but by my sponsor in the Catholic initiation process, who is a life-long Catholic). I have sometimes taken it, and sometimes not (the “not” was during those times when I was advised not to take it due to a lingering cold or stomach upset). I would advise that you check with the priest of the church that you would likely attend to see what he has to say. You can explain that you are a Muslim looking to come to Christ, but have a hard time separating the wine given during communion from Islam’s complete prohibition on alcohol. Perhaps he can even find a Muslim-background Christian to explain why we use the wine, since such a person would understand your concerns better than a non-Muslim background Christian (but the reason is one that every Catholic understands: It is in accordance with the account of the Last Supper found in Luke, chapter 22).

I do not think there is any circumstance under which a Catholic would drink holy water (if anyone knows one, please tell us, because now I am curious as this is something I’ve never even considered). Please do not feel bad for having done this, though. You did not know any better. The very first time I attended Mass I had been instructed by my then-girlfriend, who was Catholic, to read the Missal in order to know what responses to give and when. I of course did not know what I was doing at all, but I was glad to have the Missal to at least read and try to follow the Mass from. I thought this was such a useful book that I decided I should take it home in order to study it more. So I did, and I was so happy that I actually called her on the phone after I returned home from Mass to tell her how it went. I said something like “yes, I did not know what was going on, but the Missal helped me. I took it home so now I have it with me to study.” She was shocked. “Jeremy, you don’t do that! Go return the Missal as soon as you can!” I didn’t know what I had done, but I understood that it must be wrong, so I took it back the following Sunday. Oops! 😊 This is how we all learn. 😉

The collection of donations that you witnessed is common throughout all of Christianity, as far as I know. We did it in my old Protestant church, and Catholics definitely do it. I would be suprised if there was any sect of Christianity that did not do it, since we are told in the Bible to do so. Isn’t alms-giving one of the five pillars of Islam (“zakat”, I think it’s called)? Here is a wikipedia article on alms-giving that contrasts the practice in various religions.

Yes, you are so right about the bowing you witnessed in the Church! We call it “genuflecting” in the Roman Catholic rite. It occurs at various points during the Mass. The Eastern Orthodox have several forms of bows, some of which I think are also shared with Eastern rite Catholics (anyone care to confirm? I heard this from an Iraqi friend of mine, but I’ve never actually seen their services). I think the Muslims got their form of prayer from the Orthodox, since they also prostrate themselves.

What you have said about Islam being your religion of choice when you consider the state of the world is very profound. Perhaps you could benefit from reading about Christian concepts of God’s justice? They are very powerful, and would also give you a basis for comparison between the two religions in this aspect. Unfortunately I am on vacation as I write this, so I am away from my books, but I am sure one of our friends here can recommend you good, theologically-sound books on this subject, if it is something that you think might help you to see how Christianity deals with the problems it also sees in the world.

I’m sorry that this reply has gotten so lengthly. I guess these aren’t “quick” comments after all! Please forgive me, it’s just that reading this news makes me very happy for you. It seems that the Lord is really working within you to open your mind and your heart to His true and everlasting love. Please remember that above all else that you might see here in our disagreements among ourselves or with people of other faiths on this forum or anywhere else, it is this love of God that gives life to each and every one of us.

God bless you, my dear brother. May the Lord continue to enrich you in your understanding of the Christian faith so that you may find the answers and peace that you seek.
 
Welcome back Sam! we missed you on CAF!

Great to hear your news.

Come to Lebanon to get baptized:D …you can go to the South where Jesus walked 👍

God bless your journey
 
Hi Sam,
Usually, we dip our fingers in the holy water prior to making the sign of the cross, but you can certainly drink it if you want to. There is nothing wrong with that. You can also sprinkle the holy water around your house to bless and sanctify it.

When I first came to the Catholic Church, I was struggling against the use of foul language, a habit I had formed during the many years when I was not religious. I found that putting holy water on my lips each day and praying for strength to overcome this habit helped me to quickly overcome it.

God love you,
Paul
 
Welcome Sam. I hope the vacation has granted you strength to think better.

We are waiting for your posts here.

Bless you! 🙂
 
Sam, do you mind me asking what country or part of the world this was where you went to church? Anyway, RCIA isn’t required for everyone and the priest should look at an individual’s circumstances first before he says they must go through RCIA to become Catholic…in your case, since you live in Saudi Arabia it would be difficult to do it. I think the priest should have offered to give you private instruction in the Catholic faith and baptize you when you are ready.
 
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