Vaccination - is there an official Church stance?

[gron0083]

I submitted to ask an apologist but it didn’t get answered. Anyone know or have any good links to share? Is there a Church position on vaccination in general?

On a side note, I was doing a search of previous threads and found this:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=68690&highlight=vaccination
I had not been aware that there were vaccines produced from aborted fetuses. This article
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0504240.htm
Says basically that Catholics can still get the “tainted” vaccines because the immorality of passive cooperation with the making of vaccines grown from aborted fetuses decades ago is far overshadowed by the potential immorality associated with risking the morbidity or mortality of another human being by transmitting to them a deadly disease.
Is this still the current position? Looks like the article is from 2005.

I’ve always been very, very pro-vaccine, but was absolutely shocked to discover that some were made from aborted fetuses. Few things would sway me from the CDC recommended vaccination schedule, but something like that might were the Church to take a position that it was immoral.

 

[wub]

I’m currently struggling with this same dilemma; specifically with the chicken pox vaccination. I haven’t given it to any of my children. I’ve been praying they catch the virus and I’ll be relived of the decision. Some people I know have resorted to attending a ‘chicken pox’ party. Morally permissible or not, I can’t bring myself to doing this. So now my oldest is 8 and I’m afraid he is going to grow up without ever getting chicken pox. If I understand it correctly, it is much more dangerous to catch the Chicken Pox if you are older. So what do I do? I’ve read some of the official statements released by the Vatican but they don’t really answer these questions very well.

I had already had the MMR administered to all of my children before I realized that it was made from an aborted fetus. I don’t think I would have if I knew what I do know now. I can’t imagine there isn’t more clear direction for people in our situation.

 

[rwoehmke]

I seem to recall reading that at this point in time those vaccines that depended on embryonic materials in their development have been in existence so long that their use when no alternative is available would now be considered remote enough from the initial development to be morally legitimate. That is to say that each new batch of vaccine no longer depends on the availability of new embryos. Sorry I cannot remember where I read this, but as I recall it was a reliable source. I probably took note of that fact because the very thought that my own kids were vaccinated with these vaccines before I knew the source really bothered me.

 

[wub]

I seem to recall reading that at this point in time those vaccines that depended on embryonic materials in their development have been in existence so long that their use when no alternative is available would now be considered remote enough from the initial development to be morally legitimate. That is to say that each new batch of vaccine no longer depends on the availability of new embryos. Sorry I cannot remember where I read this, but as I recall it was a reliable source. I probably took note of that fact because the very thought that my own kids were vaccinated with these vaccines before I knew the source really bothered me.

From what I’m reading, it looks like the original fetal cell line, along with some new ones, is still being used. Here is a site I found: cogforlife.org/ Click on Vaccine Sources on the left! Please, if anyone has any knowledge on this subject, respond to fill in the gaps and or correct anything we’re saying.

 

[BenM]

I found out about this yesterday. So far the only thing I’ve been able to come up with is this: cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm hopefully it might help to shed some light on the matter.

 

[Jermosh]

The Church has never said that it is immoral to use these vaccinations, and in fact that it may be wrong not to, since we are not only putting ourselves as harm, but our children and our society. It does say that we should push our govt and drug companies to find an alternative, and use it if we can.

All of our hands are stained by the blood of innocents. We all benefit from the horrific death of the innocents be it unjust wars, or crimes of humanity. To point out that one victim is ok to gain from and not the other is unjust IMO.

 

[wub]

The Church has never said that it is immoral to use these vaccinations, and in fact that it may be wrong not to, since we are not only putting ourselves as harm, but our children and our society. It does say that we should push our govt and drug companies to find an alternative, and use it if we can.

All of our hands are stained by the blood of innocents. We all benefit from the horrific death of the innocents be it unjust wars, or crimes of humanity. To point out that one victim is ok to gain from and not the other is unjust IMO.

That’s the big question; when do the ends justify the means? For instance, if you are starving on a boat and the friend who is with you dies, can you eat him to stay alive? What if it is evident he is going to die but not in time to save you? Can you kill him? What if, in the same situation, you have a child to feed? Is an action more justifiable because you can save a child’s life?

Really, by purchasing these vaccinations, you are promoting murder for profit. You can question whether or not it is direct or indirect etc… but either way, that pharmaceutical company is profiting from that baby being murdered.

What’s the difference between eating someone in order to stay alive, or injecting someone directly into your blood stream, in order to stay alive or even prevent a remote chance of possibly catching a disease that could possibly kill you? Then the same question has to be asked about the vaccinations for non life threatening diseases, like chicken pox.

 

[gron0083]

Really, by purchasing these vaccinations, you are promoting murder for profit. You can question whether or not it is direct or indirect etc… but either way, that pharmaceutical company is profiting from that baby being murdered.

What’s the difference between eating someone in order to stay alive, or injecting someone directly into your blood stream, in order to stay alive or even prevent a remote chance of possibly catching a disease that could possibly kill you? Then the same question has to be asked about the vaccinations for non life threatening diseases, like chicken pox.

It’s true that by purchasing these vaccinations that pharmaceutical companies profit, but we also must think of the way in which society and the unborn profit. The link posted earlier (cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm) stated that a single US outbreak of rubella resulted in 11,250 abortions, 2,100 neonatal deaths, 11,600 cases of deafness, 3,580 cases of blindness, 1,800 cases of mental retardation. Granted rubella is not life threatening to adults, but it is highly fatal to neonates and the unborn.

Somehow I wonder if this isn’t a case where God took a grave sin of humanity and turned it into something good. I know, that’s a romantic notion. While I don’t want to justify the way the vaccines were made nor absolve anyone of their responsibility to push for vaccines which are morally sound, it does strike me that the deaths of two innocent unborn children died, and in so doing saved thousands of lives. There’s quite a bit of irony there.

I would also like to know why this issue isn’t made louder in church (at least in mine - because I’ve never heard a peep about this, and no one I mention it to has either). I even work in public health and I didn’t know. I wonder how much public push it would take in order to get pharmaceutical companies to manufacture alternative vaccines.

Also, I’m not an ethicist, but I do wonder if they were to produce an alternative vaccine, would that one also be “tainted?” After all, the knowledge and intellectual capacity to manufacture a new vaccine would likely have come in part from knowledge and intellectual capacity gained from the old vaccine. This is quite interesting! I hope this issue gets more attention, it certainly drives this sleep deprived mommy bonkers and makes me dizzy to think about! Definitely an issue which requires more than a couple consecutive hours of sleep to contemplate, lol.

 

[wub]

It’s true that by purchasing these vaccinations that pharmaceutical companies profit, but we also must think of the way in which society and the unborn profit. The link posted earlier (cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm) stated that a single US outbreak of rubella resulted in 11,250 abortions, 2,100 neonatal deaths, 11,600 cases of deafness, 3,580 cases of blindness, 1,800 cases of mental retardation. Granted rubella is not life threatening to adults, but it is highly fatal to neonates and the unborn.

Somehow I wonder if this isn’t a case where God took a grave sin of humanity and turned it into something good. I know, that’s a romantic notion. While I don’t want to justify the way the vaccines were made nor absolve anyone of their responsibility to push for vaccines which are morally sound, it does strike me that the deaths of two innocent unborn children died, and in so doing saved thousands of lives. There’s quite a bit of irony there.

I would also like to know why this issue isn’t made louder in church (at least in mine - because I’ve never heard a peep about this, and no one I mention it to has either). I even work in public health and I didn’t know. I wonder how much public push it would take in order to get pharmaceutical companies to manufacture alternative vaccines.

Also, I’m not an ethicist, but I do wonder if they were to produce an alternative vaccine, would that one also be “tainted?” After all, the knowledge and intellectual capacity to manufacture a new vaccine would likely have come in part from knowledge and intellectual capacity gained from the old vaccine. This is quite interesting! I hope this issue gets more attention, it certainly drives this sleep deprived mommy bonkers and makes me dizzy to think about! Definitely an issue which requires more than a couple consecutive hours of sleep to contemplate, lol.

Yes, I agree it’s quite mind boggling . I really wish the Church would just give us a yes or no answer for some of this though. I really do lose sleep trying to decide if I should get the Chicken Pox vaccination or not, for my children. My oldest is now 8 so I feel like I’m running out of time here. I didn’t realize how these vaccinations were made so my first 4 children were given the MMR. Now we have our 5th on the way so the MMR is also a moral dilemma. I’m really curious what other Catholics are doing.

I don’t know for sure, but I would have to guess that it wouldn’t be immoral to use an ethical line of vaccinations, even if the development process is tainted. That, IMHO, would truly be God making an evil - good.

 

[pnewton]

There is not “Catholic” positition. Several moral principles apply, but there is not right or wrong answer. This is the best I could find from the National Catholic Bioethics Center

immunize.org/concerns/furton.pdf

Rubella is but one of many diseases, and encephalitis

but one of many complications. Any widespread effort
to force the hand of vaccine manufacturers would
require considerable human suffering. Heroic refusals
by adults are laudable, but parents have a moral obligation
to secure the life and health of their children.
As with so many issues of this type, it appears that the
only proper recourse is to make appeals for redress to
our legislatures and our courts. The true scandal here
is not that Catholics use these vaccines, but that the
researchers and scientists who bring us these products
do not take into sufficient account the moral convictions
of millions of their fellow citizens.

I find the question rather easy, myself. I pay doctors for medical adivce that I do not have and the NCBC is the best at what they do. I take my responsibility for others very seriously. Since I speak for my children until they are old enough to speak for themselves, then as a family we do what is best for all in our community, not just ourselves.

 

[gron0083]

I’m really curious what other Catholics are doing.

I recently came across it and found it really interesting. Looks like other Catholics must be vaccinating in the LA area. They found that schools at risk for outbreaks because of low vaccination rates were public schools in affluent areas and NON-Catholic private schools. The “safe” schools were Catholic private schools and public schools in low SES areas.

latimes.com/news/local/la-me-immunization29-2009mar29,0,3148179.story

 

[wub]

I recently came across it and found it really interesting. Looks like other Catholics must be vaccinating in the LA area. They found that schools at risk for outbreaks because of low vaccination rates were public schools in affluent areas and NON-Catholic private schools. The “safe” schools were Catholic private schools and public schools in low SES areas.

latimes.com/news/local/la-me-immunization29-2009mar29,0,3148179.story

Yeah, the autism threat is something worth considering too. Personally, I’m not as worried about it as I am with the moral implications. I was administered the MMR as was most of my generation. I’m totally skeptic about the ‘rise in autism cases’. I believe our diagnostic capabilities have changed and this is the reason for the higher number of children being diagnosed with autism. I’m by no means an expert, however. I’ve been vaccinated with all kinds of things including MMR, Anthrax, Small Pox, and a whole bunch of other stuff I can’t even recall. As of yet, there haven’t been any adverse affects.

I would be curious to know what the results would be if you took those same Catholic schools that have a high percentage of vaccinations, and did a survey of the parents to see how many of them knew they were injecting their children with material from an aborted baby. I went through vaccinations with 4 children before I learned about how these vaccinations are made. Just about everyone I speak with (Christian or not) are totally surprised when they learn this information.

The worse part of all of this is that the pharmaceutical companies have all the means to make ethical vaccinations for us but they won’t. Not until enough people stop buying vaccinations made from fetal cell lines. So it comes back to the initial question, am I justified in feeding my child another child for the greater good of society?

 

[Harrison]

I know that I am a late responder to this thread, but I felt I had to respond. My wife and I just had our first child and he just had his first batch of vaccinations at 2 months. We struggled with what vaccinations to give him, especially those with no moral alternatives. The following paragraph from the Pontifical Academy for Life’s response helps the most and I think explains what we should or should not do with regards to vaccines with moral problems:

As regards the diseases against which there are no alternative vaccines which are available and ethically acceptable, it is right to abstain from using these vaccines if it can be done without causing children, and indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health. However, if the latter are exposed to considerable dangers to their health, vaccines with moral problems pertaining to them may also be used on a temporary basis. The moral reason is that the duty to avoid passive material cooperation is not obligatory if there is grave inconvenience. Moreover, we find, in such a case, a. proportional reason, in order to accept the use of these vaccines in the presence of the danger of favouring the spread of the pathological agent, due to the lack of vaccination of children. This is particularly true in the case of vaccination against German measles15.

In essence, we can use these tainted vaccines on a temporary basis if there is considerable danger to health. As is stated elsewhere in the document, we have a duty to voice our opinion to the manufacturers of these vaccines as well. The rubella shot seems to be one that may be received because the ramifications of the disease if it is caught by a pregnant woman are disastrous. There are other vaccines without alternatives (to my knowledge) that do not pose such a high risk, such as Hepatitis A and Chickenpox, but there are still risks, especially with the latter. What parents need to do is assess the risks. Is there a considerable danger to my child’s health if they do not get the vaccine?

At this point, since my son is only 2.5 months old, I have time to think about the Chickenpox vaccine. It can be dangerous for pregnant women and cause birth defects in the first part of the pregnancy. My wife has had chickenpox, so there is no risk of her contracting the disease if she is pregnant and our son gets Chickenpox. Currently I am leaning towards no on Chickenpox, but I want to make the best decision I can in accordance with what the Church teaches. We are definitely not getting our son vaccinated for Hepatitis A. I don’t see the health risk there at all.

I hope this helps some of you make a good decision. I purchased a good book on vaccines as well, that gives what seems to be a good balanced overview of each of the vaccines and the diseases. It is called The Vaccine Book by Dr. Robert W. Sears.

 

[wub]

Thank you for your post. I’m struggling with the decision on whether or not to get the Chickenpox vaccine for my children as well. My oldest is now 8. I really need to make the decision soon. I’ve been praying that they catch it normally but that hasn’t happened yet. I can’t bring myself to do one of those chickenpox parties. arrrg… it’s so frustrating. I hope others give their (name removed by moderator)ut here.

 

[TamM]

Thank you for your post. I’m struggling with the decision on whether or not to get the Chickenpox vaccine for my children as well. My oldest is now 8. I really need to make the decision soon. I’ve been praying that they catch it normally but that hasn’t happened yet. I can’t bring myself to do one of those chickenpox parties. arrrg… it’s so frustrating. I hope others give their (name removed by moderator)ut here.

I caught chickenpox when I was 21 and breastfeeding my first child who was 5 months old. Ironically, this was about 2 months before the vaccine came out. I had never had chickenpox before, and I’d been to “chickenpox parties” several times as a kid. I was miserable for weeks, and had chickenpox EVERYWHERE. My baby caught them from me just as mine were clearing up, and he was also covered from head to toe, and he developed laringytis (sp) with it too. I missed so much work I almost lost my job.
If chickenpox was the only vaccine made this way, I’d say forget it, lets force them not to do it like this. But from what I’ve read on this thread some important vaccinations like MMR are included, and that changes things for me. My next baby (due in 13 weeks) will get all the vaccines. It disturbs me that they are made this way, big time, but I feel they need the vaccinations, plus they’ll get kicked out of public school without them, and not getting them will not stop any abortions.

 

[recondelta]

The following site may prove helpful.

usccb.org/prolife/issues/bioethic/vaccfac2.shtml

My offspring are all in their 30’s, but I would not hesitate to use the
vaccines now. The questions for the future raised in the above
reference are really interesting and will require much discussion
by theologians, moralists, ethics experts, and a whole lot of other
sources. I wonder if a conclusive answer to these new questions
will ever be reached.

 

[joeflow]

Here’s some additional info for those interested. The first one is a good overview of the situation.

associatedcontent.com/article/238012/fetal_tissue_and_the_production_of.html?cat=34

And this has more in depth info about it:

catholiceducation.org/articles/medical_ethics/me0044.html

In the United States, 10 different vaccines for chicken pox, hepatitis A, polio, rabies, and rubella are cultured on aborted tissue from two fetal cell lines known as WI-38 and MRC-5. These vaccines are Varivax (chicken pox), Havrix (hep-A), Vaqta (hep-A), Twinrix (hep-A/hep-B), Poliovax (polio), Imovax (rabies), Meruvax II (rubella), MR-VAX (measles/rubella), Biavax II (mumps/rubella), and MMR II (measles/mumps/rubella). Alternative, pro-life vaccines are available in this country for all but the chicken pox, hepatitis A, and rubella inoculations.

Turns out all these vaccines are cultivated from the abortions of 2 children, one in 1962, and the other in 1966.