Vain and Repetitious prayer

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Dchsknight

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Just want to start a thread on what People think is Vain and Repetitious prayer.

Protestants always accuse us of Vain and Repetitious prayer, so lets Discuss what actually is…Here is my opinion:

I think any kind of Prayer can, become Vain and Repetitious, when, we the people who are praying, are praying with out Authority or when we are jsut praying to pray, Like if mommy and daddy said so as a kid, we pray now as adults. Instead of us as adults chasing after God with all our hearts and praying, knowing full well that we are the children of a Good and Holy God, and he hears us. Also that We as Children of God have the right and privilege to pray to our mother in heaven, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and all those who have gone before us.

For example, I believe that if you just pray the Rosary, just to pray it, or If you pray it because others do it, and have no idea what it is or what it is for that is Vain and repetitious. If you pray it how ever with the Intent to learn and grow in Christ, through a devotional and Sacramental, knowing that meditating on the mysteries with in the Rosary, can bring you closer to God as you recite and meditate on the Rosary. That is not vain and Repetitious.

So what do others think. I look forward to the great and powerful conversations ahead of us.

Your Brother and knight in Christ,

James
 
Lack of sincerity in one’s prayer, that would be vain. Sincerity is something that is in the mind and the heart, and God alone can declare with accuracy who are sincere and who are not. But repeating one’s prayer, saying the same words, is not per se vain or sign of insincerity. Jesus himself in Gethsemani prayed three times saying the same words. That was a repetitive prayer. But it was not vain.
 
I think it would be hard to say any specific prayer is “vain and repititious” . Sometimes when I start the rosary I have a hard time getting my mind into it, but eventually I start meditating better on the mysteries. Sometimes it take a while to get “warmed up”. But you have to start a rosary to finish it. Other times my mind will wander, depending on what’s been going on during the day(especially if I pray on the way home from work). That can really be a challenge. Reading your post, I honestly don’t really understand what you are getting at when you say “pray without authority” and “pray just to pray” What does that mean? I suppose if you are not meditating at all on the words but instead you’re just reciting them without much thought, then you should consider re-thinking your prayer life. It seems hard to judge anyone else, but rather I think we need to look at our own prayer lives. Ishii
 
Maybe you could ask them…Are we vain and repetitious when we hope that those whom we love will tell us many times over during the course of our lives?
Do we want those who love us to say, I love you" once, and not repeat this to us again at other times?
 
Most of the n-catholics used Mat. 6: 7 for vain and repetitious prayers which they allude to the praying of the holy rosary by the catholics because it is a repetition of ten Hail Mary’s and ten Holy Mary’s.

On that particular verse, Mat. 6: 7, it is clear that our Lord referred it to the pagans not to the christians. The Lord gave us examples in His parable in Luke 18: 1 - 5 and Luke 11: 5 - 8 that we should have to be persistent in our asking for help (through prayers).

Prayer is also an act of adoration to God. The angels in heaven adored God by singing day and night “Holy,holy,holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and who is to come”. Thiese words could even be finished in few seconds but the angels repeated these day and night. ( Rev. 4: 8 )
 
The vain and repetitious prayer condemned is ‘like the pagans’, in other words pagans who in their ceremonies and habits believed by repeating set mantras or incantations they encouraged their gods to answer them, especially if the words were the right and pleasing ones. So basically just occult incantation.
 
Dchsknight said:
Just want to start a thread on what People think is Vain and Repetitious prayer.

Protestants always accuse us of Vain and Repetitious prayer, so lets Discuss what actually is…Here is my opinion:

I think any kind of Prayer can, become Vain and Repetitious, when, we the people who are praying, are praying with out Authority or when we are jsut praying to pray, Like if mommy and daddy said so as a kid, we pray now as adults. Instead of us as adults chasing after God with all our hearts and praying, knowing full well that we are the children of a Good and Holy God, and he hears us. Also that We as Children of God have the right and privilege to pray to our mother in heaven, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and all those who have gone before us.

For example, I believe that if you just pray the Rosary, just to pray it, or If you pray it because others do it, and have no idea what it is or what it is for that is Vain and repetitious. If you pray it how ever with the Intent to learn and grow in Christ, through a devotional and Sacramental, knowing that meditating on the mysteries with in the Rosary, can bring you closer to God as you recite and meditate on the Rosary. That is not vain and Repetitious.

So what do others think. I look forward to the great and powerful conversations ahead of us.

Your Brother and knight in Christ,

James
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***Prayers to Ba’al were vain prayers, as there was no Ba’al listening. Repetition, per se, is not vain.

In the Gospel accounts of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus is said to have repeated the same prayers, in the same words, three times.***
 
Rev 4:8
And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”

First make the objectors deal with that.
 
Dchsknight said:
Just want to start a thread on what People think is Vain and Repetitious prayer.

Protestants always accuse us of Vain and Repetitious prayer, so lets Discuss what actually is…Here is my opinion:

I think any kind of Prayer can, become Vain and Repetitious, when, we the people who are praying, are praying with out Authority or when we are jsut praying to pray, Like if mommy and daddy said so as a kid, we pray now as adults. Instead of us as adults chasing after God with all our hearts and praying, knowing full well that we are the children of a Good and Holy God, and he hears us. Also that We as Children of God have the right and privilege to pray to our mother in heaven, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and all those who have gone before us.

For example, I believe that if you just pray the Rosary, just to pray it, or If you pray it because others do it, and have no idea what it is or what it is for that is Vain and repetitious. If you pray it how ever with the Intent to learn and grow in Christ, through a devotional and Sacramental, knowing that meditating on the mysteries with in the Rosary, can bring you closer to God as you recite and meditate on the Rosary. That is not vain and Repetitious.

So what do others think. I look forward to the great and powerful conversations ahead of us.

Your Brother and knight in Christ,

James
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It seems to me that most prayer can be repetitious, so maybe its the vain part that God dislikes.

Even Protestants that are good at spontaneous, ad-lib prayer can be very repetitious: “Father, we thank you for this day. . . .”

And since God knows what I need even before I ask, that would seem to make it even more repetiteous.
 
Joero said:
Most of the n-catholics used Mat. 6: 7 for vain and repetitious prayers which they allude to the praying of the holy rosary by the catholics because it is a repetition of ten Hail Mary’s and ten Holy Mary’s.

On that particular verse, Mat. 6: 7, it is clear that our Lord referred it to the pagans not to the christians. The Lord gave us examples in His parable in Luke 18: 1 - 5 and Luke 11: 5 - 8 that we should have to be persistent in our asking for help (through prayers).

Prayer is also an act of adoration to God. The angels in heaven adored God by singing day and night “Holy,holy,holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and who is to come”. Thiese words could even be finished in few seconds but the angels repeated these day and night. ( Rev. 4: 8 )
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Well said.
 
To answer some who said they did not know what i meant when i said “Praying with out Authority” or “Praying to pray”

I would say Praying with out Authority is like praying about something, when your in Sin or praying about something, you have no right praying about or for. For isntnace praying that God will do something you know he won’t. ANother Example, Praying for a wife but she is not the woman for you, and you are praying that God will go against his plan and make her that woman. Or when there is Demon Activity and you pray against them, but you are not a Believer or a priest.

Praying jsut to pray, would be like, Say you grow up and you do it just because it is what you have always done. Or say a Confermation student is only Going through Confermation, because mommy and daddy wont buy them a car unless they go through it. Or they pray and do church, because it is expected of them, instead of them want to be confermed and go to church because it is a wonderful and powerful thing. It is a privlege and a blessing to be able to pray and go to Church.
 
Dchsknight said:
Just want to start a thread on what People think is Vain and Repetitious prayer.

Protestants **always accuse us **of Vain and Repetitious prayer, so lets Discuss what actually is…Here is my opinion:

I think any kind of Prayer can, become Vain and Repetitious, when, we the people who are praying, are praying with out Authority or when we are jsut praying to pray, Like if mommy and daddy said so as a kid, we pray now as adults. Instead of us as adults chasing after God with all our hearts and praying, knowing full well that we are the children of a Good and Holy God, and he hears us. Also that We as Children of God have the right and privilege to pray to our mother in heaven, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and all those who have gone before us.

For example, I believe that if you just pray the Rosary, just to pray it, or If you pray it because others do it, and have no idea what it is or what it is for that is Vain and repetitious. If you pray it how ever with the Intent to learn and grow in Christ, through a devotional and Sacramental, knowing that meditating on the mysteries with in the Rosary, can bring you closer to God as you recite and meditate on the Rosary. That is not vain and Repetitious.

James
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James,
Not all protestants always accuse Catholics of vain and repetitive prayer. I consider the Rosary neither vain nor repetitive, per se. It depends on the user. But I would think most Catholics would consider it meditative. And I accept that.

Jon
 
I grew up in a Baptist minister’s home and church, and all prayers had to be “spontaneous”…but those prayers can be the same words too; it depends on the sinceritty of the pray-er. Those “spontaneous” prayers are the same words over and over also – with some changes here or there based on personality – and where their head is at the time. One of the things I like about the written prayers of the Church and others are that it takes personality out of the prayer. I do feel comfortable talking to my Heavenly Father spontaneously and I also love praying the written prayers with worship and adoration and heartfelt sincerity. To call a person who is praying a written prayer of the Church or the Saints “vain or repititious” is being more judgmental than anyone should be – that judgment should be up to God and God alone to decide the worthiness of our prayers.

AND, I just hope some Protestant says that to me soon so I can answer them.

One of my favorite prayers is from Blessed Mother Teresa. Read this and call it VAIN or REPITITIOUS – this prayer helped me understand true humility.

Deliver me, O Jesus,
From the desire of being loved,
From the desire of being extolled,
From the desire of being honored,
From the desire of being praised,
From the desire of being preferred,
From the desire of being consulted,
From the desire of being approved,
From the desire of being popular,
From the fear of being humiliated,
From the fear of being despised,
From the fear of suffering rebukes,
From the fear of being calumniated,
From the fear of being forgotten,
From the fear of being wronged,
From the fear of being ridiculed,
From the fear of being suspected.
–Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
 
ANDDDDDDDDdddd about the Hail Mary –

To somone who has something to say about the Hail Mary, ask them how long it has been since they sat down and called Mary “Blessed.” The Bible they love to quote about “vain and repitition” says "all generations will call me blessed.

We honor Christ when we honor her!

🙂
 
There is the Litany of humility:

Litany of Humility

by Merry Cardinal del Val, secretary of state to Pope Saint Pius X
from the prayer book for Jesuits, 1963

O Jesus, meek and humble of heart, Hear me.

From the desire of being esteemed, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being loved, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being extolled, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being honored, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being praised, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being preferred to others, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being consulted, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being approved, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being humiliated, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being despised, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of suffering rebukes, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being calumniated, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being forgotten, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being ridiculed, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being wronged, Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the fear of being suspected, Deliver me, O Jesus.

That others may be loved more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be chosen and I set aside, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be praised and I go unnoticed, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be preferred to me in everything, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

Charity
"Charity is patient, is kind; charity does not envy, is not pretentious, is not puffed up, is not ambitious, is not self-seeking, is not provoked; thinks no evil, does not rejoice over wickedness, but rejoices with the truth, bears with all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. (1 Cor. 13:4-7).

To have Charity is to love God above all things for Himself and be ready to renounce all created things rather than offend Him by serious sin.
( Matt. 22:36-40)
 
Here’s another related thread. There are many other passages from the Bible cited. Here’s what I posted:

Actually, in the verse in question God does not use the word “vain” or the word “repetition” - King James did. The Greek word is battologeo, and here’s what a Protestant concordance (Strong’s) says about it’s origin:
Some suppose the word derived from Battus, a king of Cyrene, who is said to have stuttered; others from Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems.
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But the context makes it clear that the second meaning is the correct one. Because, first of all, in the Scriptures God often says the same thing twice in a slightly different way; one reason for this is to help us define the words used. And lo! Here we have a Greek word used only once in Scripture, and sure enough, Jesus made the same point twice to help us define the word:
And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. (Matthew 6:7 NIV)
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First of all, notice that NIV simply dumped “vain repetitions” and went with “babbling”; but notice that Jesus gave us the correct definition by repeating the point saying “many words”, which is a perfect match for “Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems.” Personally, I think the verse is best translated: “And when you pray, do not ramble on like pagans…”

So, now that we’ve got the definition let’s get to the heart of the matter - the point Jesus is making. Here’s a little more context:
Matthew 6
7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven… (NIV)
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Jesus’ point is that the pagans pray with many words because they don’t understand that God already knows what is in your heart and mind - He’s God! So He’s telling us that we don’t need to explain to God all the things we want to pray for, God already knows what we want, and more importantly what we need. All we need to do is make a simple supplication (petition), like ending abortion in America, and offer up simple prayers like the Our Father, in praise and thanksgiving (Philippians 4:6). And of course, Jesus could not be condemning repetitious prayers, because, as others have already demonstrated here, God approves of repeating prayers over and over - “pray unceasingly” (1 Thessalonians 5:17) - and truth cannot contradict truth. So pray the Rosary!
 
Other questions related to this topic that most probably would come up are:
(1) How are we sure that the BVM hears our prayer and help us the way she helps the wedding celebrants at Cana?
(2) Why not direct our prayer to Jesus Christ so that He would be the one to bring it to the Father?
(3) Should it be necessary that one should repeat ten times the Hail Mary as it is used to
be, when praying the rosary, why made it ten in every mystery?
 
Whenever a Protestant accuses me of the “vain and repetitious” Rosary, I ask him to read Psalm 136 to me, aloud. Then we go to Daniel, 3:35 - 68.
They seldom have a comeback.
 
Strider said:
Whenever a Protestant accuses me of the “vain and repetitious” Rosary, I ask him to read Psalm 136 to me, aloud. Then we go to Daniel, 3:35 - 68.
They seldom have a comeback.
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Well said! 🙂 I will have to remember this one.
 
When I pray, I try not to let my mind wander, and I think about what I am saying and what it means. But really, my prayers do get repetitive, but I don’t think it’s a bad thing and I’m not going to stop. For example, almost every time I pray, I add a prayer in for the military or the men in the Middle East.
Catholics also repeat prayers like the Nicean Creed to remind themselves of what they believe in. And personally, I think repetitive prayers can be very soothing. When I’m scared or worried, often I like to say a quick prayer. I may not think about every word I’m saying, but it’s kind of like turning to Christ for help. And I’m sure He will understand.
 
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