Vain and Repetitious prayer

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ralphy said:
Two or three on earth, Mary is not on earth. Ralph
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Where does it say on earth? And Is God the God of the Dead or the living?

I ask this, because That verse only is refering to the earth part, when two or Three ask for things and agree together to ask for things. The gathering in his name says nothing about people here on earth or in Heaven. Also were in the bible does it say we CANT talk to people in heaven.
 
ralphy said:
Can you still answer why they call the pope “Holy Father”, Ralph.
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Why do you call the people that lead your church, Elders, or Deacons, or Preachers, or Pastors. There are just titles. That is is the same for the Pope. He is our Holy Father because he is like a real father. He guides and disciplines and strengthens the Church, while the Holy Spirit Guides, Disciplines and Strengthens him… What is the problem with Calling Holy Father?
 
Dchsknight said:
What is the problem with Calling Holy Father?
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For that matter, what is the problem with staying on topic or following the rules. If this man wants an answer to this new question, he should start a new thread, as he was already advised.

I don’t trust anyone’s understanding of Scripture, which is spiritual in nature, if they can not understand the rules here which are much simpler.
 
pnewton said:
For that matter, what is the problem with staying on topic or following the rules. If this man wants an answer to this new question, he should start a new thread, as he was already advised.

I don’t trust anyone’s understanding of Scripture, which is spiritual in nature, if they can not understand the rules here which are much simpler.
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I agree. No more off topic business from me.
 
Dchsknight said:
Why do you call the people that lead your church, Elders, or Deacons, or Preachers, or Pastors. There are just titles. That is is the same for the Pope. He is our Holy Father because he is like a real father. He guides and disciplines and strengthens the Church, while the Holy Spirit Guides, Disciplines and Strengthens him… What is the problem with Calling Holy Father?
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Only God is Holy and the Bible says “call no one on earth your father” Ralph
 
I think ‘vain’ maybe the reflection of rugged individualism in prayer. And, ‘repetitious’ may refer to a habit of a person who looks to a method of prayer rather than the ultimate destination of prayer (intimate conversation with God. The lover who converses with the soul.) The vain repetition may particularly fall in the habit of someone praying for his or her own will rather than God’s will.

Peter Kreeft emphasizes “to stop, look, and listen” (Prayer For Beginners) and not to reduce prayer to your own will (Which begs my question: How can you talk to God when you really want to talk to yourself?) Also, Father Thomas Green (SJ: Ignatian Form of Prayer) guides the pray-er to open his or her heart to God (Opening To God) rather than the rugged individualistic context of lifting one’s own heart to God (i.e. a doing it yourself fashion in the sense of a how-to-guide) without God. So, the sense of vain repetitious prayer probably refers to a vain idea of prayer and someone going to God on his or her own steam.

The problem is the person isn’t attentively conversing with God. That is, the person isn’t trying to be aware (listening) of God’s presence and persists to be attentive to the activity of prayer (i.e. like doing a yoga exercise.)

Here are some possible analogies of vain-repetitious prayer (Con) and more appropriate analogies for prayer (Pro):

Con: My prayer is a repetitious bike ride and I only to do it for keeping up my routine (A sort of competition and self-expectation.)

Pro: Imagine someone gliding on his or her bike along a road in which trees, hills, and a beautiful landscape are viewed and wondered by the cyclist (to wonder at the beauty. Contemplation rather than competition and self-expectation.)

Con: Prayer is liken to a repetitious exercise in which the person solely focuses on a nose-to-the-grindstone mentality (vanity of vanities [Ecclesiastes Chapter 1; verse 2.])

Pro: Prayer is liken to the ability to use the fruits of exercise in God’s will (i.e. healthy body, muscles, cardiovascular system, etc.) and being able to be docile to God (being open to the lover. Docile means teachable.)

Questions about what is the proper effect, form, and routine of prayer:

What is wrong with a routine?

People have to start somewhere in prayer. People have to begin. Because, God will remove all the kinks in the makeup of our prayer life and can root out all the internal and external distractions (i.e. selfish attachments, attachments to means rather than the end [God Who is the Alpha and Omega] and other inordinate conditions toward love.) So, routine isn’t bad as long as you love God rather than your exercise of prayer.

What is the effect of prayer?

I really cannot give a better answer nor demonstration than Our Blessed Lady who said, “Do what he tells you”, and fully co-operated in God’s grace in the Wedding Feast at Cana.

What is the form of prayer?

Form is the art of listening to God and acting in a way in which the person is fully infused with love of the lover (infused contemplation; infused in the resignation and full contemplation in love of God.) In fact, my Grandma (78 Years and going) has this infused act of contemplation and is a wonderful 3rd Order Franciscan who comes by this contemplative bound to the Incarnate Mystery Present in the Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Her (my Grandma’s) very prayer life is the essence and articulation of St. Thomas Aquinas’s long discussed and written scholastic synthesis in the Middle Age (middle ages rather than the sense of a mid-aged individual) prayer life.
 
Dchsknight said:
Why do you call the people that lead your church, Elders, or Deacons, or Preachers, or Pastors. There are just titles. That is is the same for the Pope. He is our Holy Father because he is like a real father. He guides and disciplines and strengthens the Church, while the Holy Spirit Guides, Disciplines and Strengthens him… What is the problem with Calling Holy Father?
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Only God is Holy, do you really think that the pope is in that class. He is like a real father? Did you ever have supper with him at any time, call no man on earth your father! By the way , I had been on a thread for about 2 months, it got filled up and dropped away. I was kind of glad it ended, for my intention was to inject some scripture into the conversation, however scripture was not accepted to readily as Tradition is the “heavy weight” in that conversation. I had been a Roman catholic for 43 years and knew what I was talking about. Roman catholics have their “own” religion, they have added so much “traditional” stuff to scripture, (with so much of mans teaching) I would have to say that it is pretty well a cult. The Bible tells me that if you go to a town (or in this case,a group) and people will not accept what you are telling them,(the Word of God), then shake the dust of your feet and move on. I am in that case “moving on”. I hope I have opened a few hearts to the Word of God that they may see what they are believing. God bless you in Jesus name. Ralph
 
ralphy said:
Only God is Holy, do you really think that the pope is in that class. He is like a real father? Did you ever have supper with him at any time, call no man on earth your father! By the way , I had been on a thread for about 2 months, it got filled up and dropped away. I was kind of glad it ended, for my intention was to inject some scripture into the conversation, however scripture was not accepted to readily as Tradition is the “heavy weight” in that conversation. I had been a Roman catholic for 43 years and knew what I was talking about. Roman catholics have their “own” religion, they have added so much “traditional” stuff to scripture, (with so much of mans teaching) I would have to say that it is pretty well a cult. The Bible tells me that if you go to a town (or in this case,a group) and people will not accept what you are telling them,(the Word of God), then shake the dust of your feet and move on. I am in that case “moving on”. I hope I have opened a few hearts to the Word of God that they may see what they are believing. God bless you in Jesus name. Ralph
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Your intention “to inject some scripture into the conversation” has been shown to be in error elsewhere on these threads. All you did was give your own personal spin on Scripture which happens to be your own personal tradition as was explained to you.

As for scripture not being readliy accepted you have also been shown eleswhere to be in error.

Get real Ralphy.
 
ralphy said:
Only God is Holy, do you really think that the pope is in that class. He is like a real father? Did you ever have supper with him at any time, call no man on earth your father! By the way , I had been on a thread for about 2 months, it got filled up and dropped away. I was kind of glad it ended, for my intention was to inject some scripture into the conversation, however scripture was not accepted to readily as Tradition is the “heavy weight” in that conversation. I had been a Roman catholic for 43 years and knew what I was talking about. Roman catholics have their “own” religion, they have added so much “traditional” stuff to scripture, (with so much of mans teaching) I would have to say that it is pretty well a cult. The Bible tells me that if you go to a town (or in this case,a group) and people will not accept what you are telling them,(the Word of God), then shake the dust of your feet and move on. I am in that case “moving on”. I hope I have opened a few hearts to the Word of God that they may see what they are believing. God bless you in Jesus name. Ralph
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🙂 Apolistic fathers of the church: Father to the church in scriptures: . A figure of speach he knew he was not the Holy Father as in GOD but he was the leader, over seer (Head) and not the foot, and was the father of the church and the congregation of Christ Abraham was the father of many nations Authoritative writers of the church from the beginning were fathers,“My little children” The Shepperd, of the flock, Remember correction comes to the pulpit first and over all those who over see the children of God. They took over for the Lord and served his church, and we should espect them for they are the head of the family of God. love of Christ Nancy
 
I tend to think that no prayer made with a faithful heart is in vain, even if it’s for something trivial. I pray for good weather this upcoming weekend because it’s my parish’s church fair. I’m sure when I was younger I prayed for things that I wanted or needed. God hears all prayers that are truly heartfelt, no matter what they are. Only He can decide what is best for us when we pray. As the song says, Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.
Repetition I think only means that it’s rambling. I am a public speaker, and I was always taught not to take 10 minutes to say something if I can do it in 3.
 
ralphy said:
… call no man on earth your father!
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*Ralphy, says who? Was it the man who also said

"Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for **I became your father in Christ Jesus **through the gospel. Therefore, I urge you, be imitators of me.

For this reason I am sending you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord; he will remind you of my ways in Christ (Jesus), just as I teach them everywhere in every church." [1 Cor 4:15-17]?

If we can call Paul “father”, why not other worthy men?*
 
ralphy,i was Baptist and i know the term your talking about because i was taught the same about the Catholic church.I believe Jesus was talking about the Jews and the Rabi situation at the time, also He did not want us to worship any man on earth, (as the Father in heaven) and the Catholics do not worship the POPE. He is the Holy Father of the church, but God is the Heavenly Father of us all ! The Catholic Church has been miss-quoted, miss in terperted, and disrespected, for a long time from those who do not understand in infrastructure, even members now some do not know or study the way they should. We are to blame for our own ignorance, not the church! Come Home! Love of Christ Nancy
 
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