Valid but illicit homely

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LaughingBoy1503

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So, we have a seminarian intern staying at our parish. Last week a priest said that the intern would give us a “reflection” on The readings, instead of Father giving us a homely. He said since only a Priest or Deacon can proclaim The Gospel in a homely, the intern would simply be giving us a “reflection” He then went to tell us that this was “Valid but illicit” :confused:

Then the same thing happened this week at Mass. I do not want to get into all kind of details about liturgical abuse and so forth. I just want to know, did I still fulfill my Sunday obligation by going to Mass when this happened? Am I obligated to attend a different parish until this stops? I am not going to write my Bishop or approach my pastor about this, I do not want involvement in this. My life is one big nervous wreck as it is. Just want to know if knowing this, I have to go to Mass again at a different parish?
 
The homily has no bearing on the validity of Mass. I’m quite surprised a priest would announce that he’s intentionally doing something illicit, but that’s another issue.

If something like this has you so shaken and upset, I think you would be doing yourself a disservice to not address it to the pastor in some way or another - even a brief email.

I do pray you find some peace of mind knowing that, based on what you have written here, there’s nothing to invalidate the Mass and you have fulfilled your obligation.
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
The homily has no bearing on the validity of Mass. I’m quite surprised a priest would announce that he’s intentionally doing something illicit, but that’s another issue.

If something like this has you so shaken and upset, I think you would be doing yourself a disservice to not address it to the pastor in some way or another - even a brief email.

I do pray you find some peace of mind knowing that, based on what you have written here, there’s nothing to invalidate the Mass and you have fulfilled your obligation.
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Thank you. See, I am scrupulous. Things like this tend to make my mind explode. Diagnosed OCD recently too 😊 Now I am thinking about times I have held hands during the “Our Father” knowing that we are not supposed to. It never ends in my mind 😦

Well… the funny thing is The Priest who announced what was about to happen was “Valid but illicit” Is a Lawyer of Cannon Law. He mentioned he was doing this out of obedience to his senior pastors request. So, perhaps, he judged it would be better to just obey his superior than fight him on the issue. I guess perhaps when he said “Valid but illicit” he meant that The Mass is still valid even though something illicit was about to occur? I don’t know. When I think about it, our Priests at our parish are very caring, extremely good men. I do not think they would do anything that they know would invalidate The Mass. I think I will talk to my Deacon about this though. He will tell the truth about how he feels about it and he is quite Orthodox. I love that guy. He’s always giving me books too 🙂
 
The Mass was valid and you met your Sunday obligation. There would be nothing wrong with going to Mass elsewhere for a while, if you don’t like this.
 
LaughingBoy1503 said:
So, we have a seminarian intern staying at our parish. Last week a priest said that the intern would give us a “reflection” on The readings, instead of Father giving us a homely. He said since only a Priest or Deacon can proclaim The Gospel in a homely, the intern would simply be giving us a “reflection” He then went to tell us that this was “Valid but illicit” :confused:

Then the same thing happened this week at Mass. I do not want to get into all kind of details about liturgical abuse and so forth. I just want to know, did I still fulfill my Sunday obligation by going to Mass when this happened? Am I obligated to attend a different parish until this stops? I am not going to write my Bishop or approach my pastor about this, I do not want involvement in this. My life is one big nervous wreck as it is. Just want to know if knowing this, I have to go to Mass again at a different parish?
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What I am about to offer might sound harsh, but I truly offer it with charity…

We need to quit making the enjoyment and intent of the celebration of the sacred mass so difficult. We should enjoy it and immerse ourselves in it, instead of critiquing it and keeping a check list and score card!

Tell your wife to relax and enjoy this wonderful display of our devotion and adoration to Christ, as God intended.
 
Neofight said:
What I am about to offer might sound harsh, but I truly offer it with charity…

We need to quit making the enjoyment and intent of the celebration of the sacred mass so difficult. We should enjoy it and immerse ourselves in it, instead of critiquing it and keeping a check list and score card!

Tell your wife to relax and enjoy this wonderful display of our devotion and adoration to Christ, as God intended.
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Wife? I wish 😃 I am single.

I get what you mean. Believe me, I do not keep a score of what is valid and what is not at Mass. Father ANNOUNCED that what was about to take place was valid but illicit. I am scrupulous. This later made my mind blow up. That may be hard for someone who is not scrupulous to understand but I can assure you my post was not in the spirit you seem to think it was in.
 
Neofight said:
What I am about to offer might sound harsh, but I truly offer it with charity…

We need to quit making the enjoyment and intent of the celebration of the sacred mass so difficult. We should enjoy it and immerse ourselves in it, instead of critiquing it and keeping a check list and score card!

Tell your wife to relax and enjoy this wonderful display of our devotion and adoration to Christ, as God intended.
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Liturgical abuses are not to be ignored or tolerated.
 
LaughingBoy1503 said:
Wife? I wish 😃 I am single.

I get what you mean. Believe me, I do not keep a score of what is valid and what is not at Mass. Father ANNOUNCED that what was about to take place was valid but illicit. I am scrupulous. This later made my mind blow up. That may be hard for someone who is not scrupulous to understand but I can assure you my post was not in the spirit you seem to think it was in.
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My bad…I have this terrible cataract in my right eye, so when I read, sometimes I don’t see clearly and my brain tells me what it thinks its says…I read “My wife is a nervous wreck” when you wrote “My Life is a nervous wreck”.

But, I’m glad you got my point, and I’ll join you in prayers for relief from scrupulosity.

Peace!
 
LaughingBoy1503 said:
So, we have a seminarian intern staying at our parish. Last week a priest said that the intern would give us a “reflection” on The readings, instead of Father giving us a homely. He said since only a Priest or Deacon can proclaim The Gospel in a homely, the intern would simply be giving us a “reflection” He then went to tell us that this was “Valid but illicit” :confused:

Then the same thing happened this week at Mass. I do not want to get into all kind of details about liturgical abuse and so forth. I just want to know, did I still fulfill my Sunday obligation by going to Mass when this happened? Am I obligated to attend a different parish until this stops? I am not going to write my Bishop or approach my pastor about this, I do not want involvement in this. My life is one big nervous wreck as it is. Just want to know if knowing this, I have to go to Mass again at a different parish?
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Is it a mortal sin for a priest to celebrate a Mass illicitly? Or is it perfectly all right for a priest to celebrate illicit Masses and to allow various illicit activities going on during the Mass?
 
A reflection on the day’s reading is not illicit. The priest can skip the homily, but is encouraged to give one, even in daily mass Anyone can give a reflection, but only the priest can give a homily…or that is my understanding. Laughingboy, just concentrate on the mass itself as a seminarian does need to practice addressing the flock. I am praying for you and your new “wife.” LOL! P. S. Don’t sweat the small stuff.
 
Neofight said:
My bad…I have this terrible cataract in my right eye, so when I read, sometimes I don’t see clearly and my brain tells me what it thinks its says…I read “My wife is a nervous wreck” when you wrote “My Life is a nervous wreck”.

But, I’m glad you got my point, and I’ll join you in prayers for relief from scrupulosity.

Peace!
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Neoflight, you should get the cataracts taken care of, don’t you think? It is painless and only takes about twenty minutes. Go for it.
 
Tomdstone said:
Is it a mortal sin for a priest to celebrate a Mass illicitly? Or is it perfectly all right for a priest to celebrate illicit Masses and to allow various illicit activities going on during the Mass?
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For a priest to do something intentionally illicit in Mass is probably a mortal sin in most circumstances.

God Bless
 
Mary_Estelle said:
Neoflight, you should get the cataracts taken care of, don’t you think? It is painless and only takes about twenty minutes. Go for it.
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Good advice, and thanks for your concern Mary…Pre-op appointment set for Sept 23…Praise God!
 
Mary_Estelle said:
A reflection on the day’s reading is not illicit. The priest can skip the homily, but is encouraged to give one, even in daily mass Anyone can give a reflection, but only the priest can give a homily…or that is my understanding. Laughingboy, just concentrate on the mass itself as a seminarian does need to practice addressing the flock. I am praying for you and your new “wife.” LOL! P. S. Don’t sweat the small stuff.
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The thing that happens between the Gospel and the Profession of Faith is a homily. If you call it another name and you put a layperson in to do it, it is still a homily, it’s just an illicit one.

If you need to have a reflection or something you’re going to need to put it in another place. For example, during the Introductory Rites, “After the greeting of the people, the Priest, or the Deacon, or a lay minister may very briefly introduce the faithful to the Mass of the day.” (GIRM #50). Or, near the end of Mass, “90. To the Concluding Rites belong the following: a) brief announcements, should they be necessary;” which again can be used for a “reflection” by a layperson if so desired.

But you simply can’t stealth it into place of the Homily. Either have a Homily or don’t.
 
TheSurvivor said:
For a priest to do something intentionally illicit in Mass is probably a mortal sin in most circumstances.
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Not so. Grave matter is limited to certain circumstances. It is easiest to know these circumstances by consulting the document Redemptionis sacramentum, issued in 2004.
Redemptionis sacramentum:
  1. Grave Matters
[173.] Although the gravity of a matter is to be judged in accordance with the common teaching of the Church and the norms established by her, objectively to be considered among grave matters is anything that puts at risk the validity and dignity of the Most Holy Eucharist: namely, anything that contravenes what is set out above in nn. 48-52, 56, 76-77, 79, 91-92, 94, 96, 101-102, 104, 106, 109, 111, 115, 117, 126, 131-133, 138, 153 and 168. Moreover, attention should be given to the other prescriptions of the Code of Canon Law, and especially what is laid down by canons 1364, 1369, 1373, 1376, 1380, 1384, 1385, 1386, and 1398.
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Tomdstone said:
Is it a mortal sin for a priest to celebrate a Mass illicitly? Or is it perfectly all right for a priest to celebrate illicit Masses and to allow various illicit activities going on during the Mass?
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Well, he did not say The Mass would be illicit. He said that the intern would give us a reflection on The readings, which is 'Valid but illicit" So, maybe he meant That The Mass was still valid, only that one thing was illicit. It was not his decision, it was The Senior pastors decision. He was just obeying.

I cant even judge if I sinned mortally half the time. I do not think I want to get into a debate about if others have sinned mortally or not. I imagine a priest would know when they crossed the line or not. Also the priest that announced what was about to happen is a lawyer of cannon law. I am sure he knows the extent of the seriousness of everything that is illicit. Perhaps he judged that this was not grave matter based on his knowledge. I can see that now that I have been assured Mass was valid. But when I am in a full blown scrupulous episode, my judgment is as good as worthless.
 
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